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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,499
Re: Advice needed [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28641355 - 01/31/24 04:41 AM (3 months, 15 days ago)

ja


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InvisiblePinkerton
Koanist

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,476
Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28641373 - 01/31/24 05:26 AM (3 months, 15 days ago)

You look epic! :heart:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Advice needed [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28641390 - 01/31/24 06:10 AM (3 months, 15 days ago)

I am post-epicalyptic
that was 4 years ago pre-covid


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28641646 - 01/31/24 09:29 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
mindfulness will stir the pot and associations will come out, however it is also primarily  a way to learn to relax. Particularly how to relax in the face of associations coming out. It may take years to heal using this process, but that is how it works in a nutshell
1. build calm (by following the breath using any technique.)
2. engage insight (which is restoring calm in the face of mental contents (AKA mara including trauma that is linked to triggers in mental contents))

I find that questioning a person's love (or self love (what do you even mean)) and caring is as insipid an approach as asking about a person's trust in Christ.

profess whatever you want.

I am here and I interrupted you because I thought your approach
Quote:

Freedom said:
Do you have access to self love at all?


was insipid and condescending in public.

If you are professionally equipped to ask that kind of question without an intake session, then you might do so in private.

Here, publicly, share what you know but don't try to make this your private therapy room. It lacks privacy, immediacy, professionality, and is linked by text, so the connection is tenuous at best.

(how naive is that?)





that's interesting, can you share more about why inquiring about love is problematic for you and why you think it should be done by a professional in private?

I'm suprised at your response, and would like to understand where you are coming from

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InvisiblePinkerton
Koanist

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,476
Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28641747 - 01/31/24 10:46 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am post-epicalyptic
that was 4 years ago pre-covid



I cannot help but to write that you are an amazing person, RGV's.

The way you articulate deep tropes and sophisticates this sub-forum is masterly done by you.

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Invisibleloladoreen
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Registered: 05/25/20
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Re: Advice needed [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28641768 - 01/31/24 11:10 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Dude, what is your resume?

Here is mine:

Anxiety
Absolutely horrible intrusive thoughts
Depression
OCD
PTSD
Schizophrenia
Several psychosis'
Substance abuse disorders

After robbing 5 pharmacies with a fake bomb belt around my waist I ended up in the ward.

8 years total in the mental ward. In my last stint (2/8 years) with the ward:
I jumped face first from the window sill twice, from chairs and beds.
Being forced to punch 25 people in the face despite absolutely not wanting to
Being forced to spit and piss on staff in the ward
I have been put 32 times in belt bed's within 10 months (this is a "record" in modern times)

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.





Thank you for sharing. I can see your growth and why you are so proud of it. You should be proud of yourself and how far you have come and continue to grow!!!!
You are doing amazing!!! Keep going forward :smile:

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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,476
Re: Advice needed [Re: loladoreen]
    #28641770 - 01/31/24 11:12 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Mush love, lola! :heart:

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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Advice needed [Re: Skropi] * 1
    #28641773 - 01/31/24 11:14 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Seriously Pinkerton.. be proud of how far you have came.
I am proud of you. I am proud of anyone who is making positive changes, it is hard.
And I am proud of me.
We have the ability to do good and wonderful things :smile:
Keep going forward. I also will keep going forward.
We can do this.. all of us can.

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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,476
Re: Advice needed [Re: loladoreen] * 1
    #28641882 - 01/31/24 12:58 PM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Thank you, lola. I appreciate your way of providing good mood to PS&P. You are a lightworker for sure. :heart:

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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,476
Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28642627 - 02/01/24 05:35 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
here is a picture of me going up and down stairs.
any staircase will do




go into the moment, forget love and hate, pain and joy, craving and fear.
going into the moment - that is the way



After all this time I am still lost on what it means to go into the moment.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,499
Re: Advice needed [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28642632 - 02/01/24 05:45 AM (3 months, 14 days ago)

it means to relax and observe the most fleeting mental contents which continuously flicker at 10 times per second - it is like touching the reality out of which our movie of life is built.

this can best be done while following the breath


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,476
Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28643564 - 02/02/24 03:58 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Does it feel like you "leave" your body?

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Advice needed [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28643614 - 02/02/24 06:04 AM (3 months, 13 days ago)

no, it means that you observe the flashes of sensation and ideation while following the breath, even when they do not resolve as clear object perceptions and reactions. you  observe without judgement, while keeping the breathing slow and regular. If you are noticing things arising  at about 10x per second you are there, if you can keep it up, then you have gone into the moment.

this is the most advanced meditation possible as it is a connection with your alpha rhythm which is the speed of associative thought - and that plus sensation is consciousness.

any meditation when sustained for 5 minutes or more can produce jhana  effects which can be psychedelic, but the purpose of going into the moment is to become more sensitive and grounded not to get effects, if you feel stoned, just be aware of it and continue until the session (20 mins, 1/2 hr whatever) is over. It will pass quickly enough and leave you slightly energized and brighter.

also as I am reminded, meditation stirs up resting memory, and some of that can be traumatic, but as with all phenomena that arise, continue calm breathing, and be aware of what is arising at 10x per second.

Normally people shift their awareness every 3 seconds, and they think and embody their thoughts at around every 1/2 second (lah dee dah) - going into the moment is to be at the living limit, as we do not have mental content shifts faster than 10-12 times per second. There is something very concrete and reassuring about connecting with that limit and sustaining it.


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Offlineepilectric
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Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28643727 - 02/02/24 08:49 AM (3 months, 12 days ago)

being in the moment is like ... just enjoying the things that happen around you.

like you see a person moving and you just accept and enjoy it

then you hear a bird chirp and it just sounds beautiful

then you feel the wind in your face and it just feels sensational and reminds you of earlier days in your life

not in a sedated kind of way, just being here alive and sensing what is going on. like a child


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28644024 - 02/02/24 01:55 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

With sustained attention
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
no, it means that you observe the flashes of sensation and ideation while following the breath, even when they do not resolve as clear object perceptions and reactions. you  observe without judgement, while keeping the breathing slow and regular. If you are noticing things arising  at about 10x per second you are there, if you can keep it up, then you have gone into the moment.

this is the most advanced meditation possible as it is a connection with your alpha rhythm which is the speed of associative thought - and that plus sensation is consciousness.

any meditation when sustained for 5 minutes or more can produce jhana  effects which can be psychedelic, but the purpose of going into the moment is to become more sensitive and grounded not to get effects, if you feel stoned, just be aware of it and continue until the session (20 mins, 1/2 hr whatever) is over. It will pass quickly enough and leave you slightly energized and brighter.

also as I am reminded, meditation stirs up resting memory, and some of that can be traumatic, but as with all phenomena that arise, continue calm breathing, and be aware of what is arising at 10x per second.

Normally people shift their awareness every 3 seconds, and they think and embody their thoughts at around every 1/2 second (lah dee dah) - going into the moment is to be at the living limit, as we do not have mental content shifts faster than 10-12 times per second. There is something very concrete and reassuring about connecting with that limit and sustaining it.




I would say if flashbacks occur from this or overwhelming sensations, you don't have to keep going into the moment, its ok to stop, or to change the aspect of the moment you go into

relaxing can let things that are supressed bubble up

this process also can dissolve suppression overall, over time and so can become more sensitive to triggers

its ok to use other methods to process trauma, like memory reconsolidation, or MDMA therapy or EMDR or yoga or whatever is appropriate for each person

i like to feel the sense of the ground supporting me, and also to look around and see there isn't any physical threat in the moment

and when I was homeless and in a state of terror so bad I was shitting in bags cause I was afraid to leave my car, self love healed what thousands of hours of practicing mindfulness couldn't

each person has to walk their own path, because each of us is unique. Even using a method someone else teaches, we have to make it our own through practice. no one can know our body/mind/heart better than ourselves

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InvisiblePinkerton
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Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,476
Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28644027 - 02/02/24 01:58 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
no, it means that you observe the flashes of sensation and ideation while following the breath, even when they do not resolve as clear object perceptions and reactions. you  observe without judgement, while keeping the breathing slow and regular. If you are noticing things arising  at about 10x per second you are there, if you can keep it up, then you have gone into the moment.

this is the most advanced meditation possible as it is a connection with your alpha rhythm which is the speed of associative thought - and that plus sensation is consciousness.

any meditation when sustained for 5 minutes or more can produce jhana  effects which can be psychedelic, but the purpose of going into the moment is to become more sensitive and grounded not to get effects, if you feel stoned, just be aware of it and continue until the session (20 mins, 1/2 hr whatever) is over. It will pass quickly enough and leave you slightly energized and brighter.

also as I am reminded, meditation stirs up resting memory, and some of that can be traumatic, but as with all phenomena that arise, continue calm breathing, and be aware of what is arising at 10x per second.

Normally people shift their awareness every 3 seconds, and they think and embody their thoughts at around every 1/2 second (lah dee dah) - going into the moment is to be at the living limit, as we do not have mental content shifts faster than 10-12 times per second. There is something very concrete and reassuring about connecting with that limit and sustaining it.



Thank you for taking your time writing that. :heart: I do not think I will ever understand it.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,499
Re: Advice needed [Re: Freedom]
    #28644068 - 02/02/24 02:23 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
...

relaxing can let things that are supressed bubble up

this process also can dissolve suppression overall, over time and so can become more sensitive to triggers




yes absolutely, however the healing comes as you bring the calm to the feet of the trauma and leave it there, this makes the kind of association that will help in the future.
One must be aware that the psyche is an associative process not a gift or prize

Tranquility is not the cause of your psychic distress, the distress may emerge in a demanding way, but to get past it you continue relaxing, following the breath, until it is time to get up, or you have had enough punishment. Punishment is not a reasonable goal. (i.e. it is not very self loving)


Quote:

Freedom said:
its ok to use other methods to process trauma, like memory reconsolidation, or MDMA therapy or EMDR or yoga or whatever is appropriate for each person

i like to feel the sense of the ground supporting me, and also to look around and see there isn't any physical threat in the moment

and when I was homeless and in a state of terror so bad I was shitting in bags cause I was afraid to leave my car, self love healed what thousands of hours of practicing mindfulness couldn't

each person has to walk their own path, because each of us is unique. Even using a method someone else teaches, we have to make it our own through practice. no one can know our body/mind/heart better than ourselves




that is a very brave admission, on your part, and you are right, one answer does not fit all questions, nor does one medicine cure all ailments.
Now we all know where you are coming from, and I am sorry you had to put yourself through all of that.

I hope you do not fear tranquility now.


--------------------
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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Advice needed [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28644110 - 02/02/24 02:41 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Freedom said:
...

relaxing can let things that are supressed bubble up

this process also can dissolve suppression overall, over time and so can become more sensitive to triggers




yes absolutely, however the healing comes as you bring the calm to the feet of the trauma and leave it there, this makes the kind of association that will help in the future.
One must be aware that the psyche is an associative process not a gift or prize

Tranquility is not the cause of your psychic distress, the distress may emerge in a demanding way, but to get past it you continue relaxing, following the breath, until it is time to get up, or you have had enough punishment. Punishment is not a reasonable goal. (i.e. it is not very self loving)




I think there are cases, myself included, where calm awareness is not enough to process trauma. This is because what bubbles up can itself be retraumatizing and sustain the trauma response, even with a background calm.

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Freedom said:
its ok to use other methods to process trauma, like memory reconsolidation, or MDMA therapy or EMDR or yoga or whatever is appropriate for each person

i like to feel the sense of the ground supporting me, and also to look around and see there isn't any physical threat in the moment

and when I was homeless and in a state of terror so bad I was shitting in bags cause I was afraid to leave my car, self love healed what thousands of hours of practicing mindfulness couldn't

each person has to walk their own path, because each of us is unique. Even using a method someone else teaches, we have to make it our own through practice. no one can know our body/mind/heart better than ourselves




that is a very brave admission, on your part, and you are right, one answer does not fit all questions, nor does one medicine cure all ailments.
Now we all know where you are coming from, and I am sorry you had to put yourself through all of that.

I hope you do not fear tranquility now.




I don't see it as brave, its simply how things are. Also I think people have a lot of capacity to face their stuff, and  a lot of intuition on how to face it. I don't feel any need to guide people, I think that can be harmful. If someone wants to learn something I've practiced, I'm happy to share, but pushing something on someone can mislead them, even if they need to learn it on their own.

I've learned what feels like a lot, and haven't shared it. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how I would go about it. The first thing is I have an image of a server in one of those cocktail parties on tv with a tray of horderves. They don't push them on any one, they just offer it, and people are free to take it or leave. Second, everyone has their own wisdom. Its not about sharing my wisdom or knowledge in general, but encouraging the person to find their own wisdom. There are techniques and methods, which are a kind of knowledge to share, however each person has to make that their own too.

I don't fear tranquility.

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Advice needed [Re: Freedom]
    #28644112 - 02/02/24 02:42 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

Also I want to say after I processed most of the intense trauma stuff, mindfulness and openness stabilized much more

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Advice needed [Re: Freedom]
    #28644118 - 02/02/24 02:45 PM (3 months, 12 days ago)

bonus
and wise


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