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Funfarm
Rocket ship janitor


Registered: 01/24/22
Posts: 279
Loc: Fungal jungle
Last seen: 1 hour, 8 minutes
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wall moisture & colonization
#28634146 - 01/25/24 08:24 AM (2 days, 23 hours ago) |
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Anyone ever let the tub walls stay dry during substrate colonization, and then moisten the inner walls at 100% expansion with spray misting to start & during fruiting? I have seen tubs build up condensation on tub walls without misting and just want to stay wet, but this current tub has the tendency to want to run with dry walls and lid. The substrate was plenty wet when mixing with spawn in the tote, but must have something in the mix that's retaining the moisture and not allowing it to escape to evaporation and then condensation. Could this be a sign of too much fae with bigger holes in the sides or absorbent material in the sub?
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AndImTheHighOne
Stranger


Registered: 12/06/23
Posts: 44
Last seen: 12 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: wall moisture & colonization [Re: Funfarm] 2
#28634159 - 01/25/24 08:44 AM (2 days, 23 hours ago) |
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I'm still a total noob, but personally I like spraying the walls at spawning just so I can get an idea of what kind of evaporation is going on in the tub without looking very hard.
I wouldn't say a lack of condensation means too much FAE. I think as long as your surface conditions are good, it shouldn't matter if there's condensation on your walls.
-------------------- "[Y]ou've already bludgeoned and abused the mycelium so at least do it justice and thoroughly mix it into the substrate " ~ Bigfoot My LAGM 2.024
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Funfarm
Rocket ship janitor


Registered: 01/24/22
Posts: 279
Loc: Fungal jungle
Last seen: 1 hour, 8 minutes
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Our very first, and I mean very first tub. We used a mini sized tub with the foam gasket on the lid. Man that thing ended up being saturated wet. I had to end up drilling a hole in the bottom with a dirty screw no doubt, just to drain off the pissy yellow water, not to mention no liner either. It was multiple errors on that first one because we used the little bitty 5 ounce V-8 soup cans as hole punch outs for fae. Anyways when I first mixed this latest tub in question, I didn't initially mist it. I let it sit dry for two days and began to think it looked like a desert. I elected to crack the lid and mist the walls ever so lightly. I mean light and quick, like maybe 1 squirt a surface side to include the lid. It looks a lot happier but the colonizing mycelium that has broke the surface is wet. It's a little to early into the expansion process to go and start fanning the turd pile, so I over misted. I originally thought the space heater was making enough air circulation in the room but it runs rarely. The dwelling is set at 72 and the room is set at 75. I elected to just now turn the ceiling fan on the lowest setting for winter air movement (clockwise spin), had to throw that in. I'm thinking with the new air movement and backing off the wall misting it should move towards a good medium. New room, new sub, bigger holes, new dial in. I could be wrong but I initially thought when it comes to fae exchange there can't be to much, provided the sub is moist. I have to think there's something in the mix acting as a sponge that's locking in the moisture. Getting back to the original question of the post, I personally don't feel comfortable letting the walls start dry during colonization, nor saturated. Lacking the experience and knowledge, I thought perhaps keeping the walls dry until fruiting might bring benefit to fruiting cycle? Kinda like force flowering indoor cannabis by reducing light schedule. The next tub I start, I'm going to mist right away after mixing to jumpstart the moist air environment. I like your comment of spraying the walls to see what kind of evaporation there is during spawning.
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Goatrider
Rhythm Guitarist



Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 4,396
Loc: Germany
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Re: wall moisture & colonization [Re: Funfarm] 1
#28634355 - 01/25/24 10:54 AM (2 days, 21 hours ago) |
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Don´t overthink it. During colonization there´s some degrees up in any tub, so there has to be condensation on the walls. But i don´t care about plastic, i just care about the surface moisture. Some passive airflow and done. Dial in to your environment, means how much air exchange can you provide without the need to mist every day.
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: wall moisture & colonization [Re: Funfarm]
#28634393 - 01/25/24 11:32 AM (2 days, 20 hours ago) |
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I'm a newcomer to much cult as well, but I'd love to share my experiences!
TLDR: Environmental conditions determine the amount of condensation on the walls. Manipulating the amount of moisture on the walls can do nothing beneficial.
Quote:
Funfarm said: ... I have seen tubs build up condensation on tub walls without misting and just want to stay wet...
I think this is a key piece of information and will give you an idea of the direction of the causal impact. My perspective is that environmental conditions--both of the tub itself as well as the ambient environment--determine the amount of condensation on the walls; actively changing the amount of condensation on the walls will have little to no impact on environmental conditions.
A properly hydrated substrate in a properly vented container should have a relatively high humidity in the chamber. Fungi produce heat, so there should be a temperature discrepancy between the interior and exterior walls. This implies that condensation will almost always be present, but I'm sure there are some edge cases.
What does opening the tub do? To start, the moment you open the lid, you've completely destroyed the atmosphere that the mycelium were growing in. It's like one minute, the mycelium think they're all safe and out of harm's way, and the next minute this giant fucking... thing rips the roof off.

So the tub's been opened and the atmosphere is gone, meaning the container has lost water content. Wiping the walls down would remove more water. If the container were to be closed again, the fungus would recreate the atmosphere and the walls would condense again.
If this were to occur frequently, I'm thinking the sub would lose a lot of water. At this point, one might think that they were just keeping the walls dry, but really what is happening is that water is slowly being removed through a drawn out mechanism.
Quote:
Funfarm said: ... I could be wrong but I initially thought when it comes to fae exchange there can't be to much, provided the sub is moist.
IMO, the moisture content of the substrate is mainly determined before it goes into the fruiting chamber ('FC') so the sub should be moist. The appropriate amount of FAE is not only determined by the FC conditions, but by the ambient conditions as well.
Let's take some extreme examples. We have two identical FCs that are placed in two very different sets of conditions. FC 1 is placed in a greenhouse that has perfect humidity, temperature, oxygen content, etc. for fruiting. FC 2 is placed in the desert at 70 degrees Fahrenheit. FC 1 doesn't need a lid, whereas FC 2 most certainly does. FC 1 will probably not encounter any environmental-related limiting factors, while FC 2 almost certainly will. Since FC 2 is in the desert, it's in an arid environment. This implies that while additional FAE will provide the oxygen that the fungus needs, it will also reduce the humidity that is necessary. In the case of FC 2, there is an optimal amount of FAE that will still keep the environment humid.
However, the fungus might still desire more oxygen. In this case, there is nothing that can be done. Increasing FAE will provide more oxygen, but it would lead to harmful moisture losses. In jargon, the marginal cost of humidity losses are greater than the marginal benefit of increased oxygen levels.
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Funfarm
Rocket ship janitor


Registered: 01/24/22
Posts: 279
Loc: Fungal jungle
Last seen: 1 hour, 8 minutes
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Why thank you both, for the educated replies. Air exchange without the need to mist everyday, well versed. The ambient environment, it's been raining with periods of fog, of course rising the relative humidity. That's probably why I'm seeing more moisture today.
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Funfarm
Rocket ship janitor


Registered: 01/24/22
Posts: 279
Loc: Fungal jungle
Last seen: 1 hour, 8 minutes
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Re: wall moisture & colonization [Re: Funfarm]
#28635765 - 01/26/24 03:43 PM (1 day, 16 hours ago) |
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Listen here OctopusDisco, I didn't like what you said about ripping off the lid and depleting the atmosphere. It made me think of the monster getting sucked out into space thru the little bitty hole in the side of the ship on one of those alien movies. It was the one when Ripley had to escape the genetically engineered alien that had part human genes. The reason I didn't like what you said is because it's absolutely spot on connotation to fact of what's happening. Like I said this tub has the tendency to run dry walls, so I let it be. Bone dry today I cracked the lid to mist, and wham into my face as soon as the lid came off.... A blast of warm moist air. A lot warmer than the ambient temp! It felt like a sauna! Mind you the surface was beaded up big time with water droplets! Like Goatrider said, don't overthink it, more extreme truth. Walls are dry, surface is moist, and the air is like warm fog. No more ripping open regardless of wall state, especially if there's surface beads. That substrate is really wet and absorbent under there. Providing plenty of surface moisture and air humidity with no condensation on the walls. By asking in posting, receiving valid feedback, coupled with recent experience, I feel it is absolutely helping dial it in. Thank you and most magnificent
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