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funguy_420
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/23
Posts: 3
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original?
#28634724 - 01/25/24 04:53 PM (2 days, 14 hours ago) |
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 So I ordered a golden teacher spore syringe online a few months ago and grew them out with with decent success, After which I took a spore print and made my own syringe, But after growing out the mushrooms using the spore syringe that I made, My yield and size was only 1/3 at most of what it was from the batch I took the spore print from, And some of the mushrooms are only 1/4 inch or less and are fully mature and producing spores. I believe the substrate to have the same mosture content if not more than the first batch. There are 3 possibilities I can think of 1) when I took the spore print from the first batch I used one big mushroom and one small mushroom and mixed the spores together for the syringe, And than later heard that I should only use the biggest mushrooms for taking spores. 2) the first time I used a 3 pound gain bag with various grains from a reputable vendor from the internet, And the second time I used a one quart grain jar I made myself using specifically millit, It's worth noting I used the same amount of substrate both times, So the second time I would've had a lower grain to substrate ratio. 3) During colonization in the mono tub underneath the casing layer I moved the tub, And for just a second I placed it somewhere where it was only supported in the middle of the tub so it broke the cake down the middle, Although it did have a decent amount of time to recover before the mycelium hit the surface you can still see a little damage in the middle of the tub although the mushrooms are growing in and around the damaged area just fine. Keep in mind I'm only comparing the first flush on both batches because I haven't made it that far with the second batch yet, But I will keep my post updated and hopefully I can figure out how to put some pictures on here lol, Any leads as to what is going on would be greatly appreciated thank you!!
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metaneuralnetwork
Stranger

Registered: 12/13/23
Posts: 62
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
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Re: Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original? [Re: funguy_420]
#28634747 - 01/25/24 05:23 PM (2 days, 14 hours ago) |
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Growing from spores is not a clone. Cloning would be taking a piece from the mushroom and growing it in agar or an LC solution.
If you start from spores it's a crap shoot.
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original? [Re: funguy_420]
#28634752 - 01/25/24 05:29 PM (2 days, 14 hours ago) |
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I'm relatively new at this hobby, so I'd wait for others with more experience to confirm the information before accepting it.
Unfortunately, you did not clone the big mushroom. Cloning involves taking a piece of the actual fruit and expanding the mycelium. Standard practice is to do this on agar.
Taking a spore print and making a syringe is fantastic, and an integral part of stabilizing genetics. However, starting from spores does not recreate the characteristics of the source fruit in the same way that cloning does; spores contain far more genetic variation compared to a clone. As such, fruits grown from spore do not necessarily reflect the characteristics of the parent fruit.
You mentioned a lot of other factors that can certainly have an impact on fruiting characteristics, but those are secondary to the genetics in most cases.
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MormansMushrooms
Elder Trippin

Registered: 12/09/16
Posts: 128
Last seen: 8 hours, 18 minutes
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Re: Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original? [Re: metaneuralnetwork]
#28634769 - 01/25/24 05:53 PM (2 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Quote:
metaneuralnetwork said: Growing from spores is not a clone. Cloning would be taking a piece from the mushroom and growing it in agar or an LC solution.
If you start from spores it's a crap shoot.
It's true.
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funguy_420
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/23
Posts: 3
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original? [Re: MormansMushrooms]
#28634873 - 01/25/24 07:03 PM (2 days, 12 hours ago) |
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So you think it's probably an environmental problem?
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funguy_420
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/23
Posts: 3
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original? [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28634877 - 01/25/24 07:04 PM (2 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Thank you for the info!!
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Goatrider
Rhythm Guitarist



Registered: 04/08/20
Posts: 4,396
Loc: Germany
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Re: Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original? [Re: funguy_420] 1
#28634881 - 01/25/24 07:07 PM (2 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Quote:
funguy_420 said: So you think it's probably an environmental problem?
Genetics.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,042
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Re: Why are my cloned mushrooms so much smaller than the original? [Re: Goatrider]
#28634892 - 01/25/24 07:21 PM (2 days, 12 hours ago) |
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As others have already said. Spores contain hundreds if not thousands of sets of genetics so you'll get something new every time. It IS possible to stabilize phenotypes.
A clone is taking a piece from the mushroom and growing it out. A clone may still contain multiple strains if it was grown from spores.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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