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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Pigs… [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28634293 - 01/25/24 10:21 AM (2 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
The point I was making is that some of the most hate-filled people among us are those who do not understand class conflict. People who get caught up in identity politics are suckers. 
[...]
My point is that identity politics causes infighting among people who should be comrades. It's true too.




And some of the strongest advocates for class conflict have understood that social identity is irrevocably intertwined - Emma Goldman immediately comes to mind; a turn of the 20th century anarchist who was also a forerunner in feminist and queer advocacy.

Two beliefs: 'I hate group X' and 'Confronting those who hate group X and systemic social inequality is an inseparable aspect of class struggle'. Both qualify as 'identity politics' but are otherwise fundamentally different.

Like it or not, people are currently divided across both class and social lines. We can recognize that class division lies at the root of economic inequality, while simultaneously recognizing that addressing social division is necessary if we want to create an undivided class comradery. Otherwise, how can you cooperate with those who would deny your individual equality based on your ethnicity, gender, sexual identity, disability, etc etc?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Pigs… [Re: Ice9]
    #28634339 - 01/25/24 10:45 AM (2 days, 10 hours ago)

1. It was stated white people are jealous of black success.

2. I agreed and stated this occurs in non whites but it is important to realize the social framework of society. Obviously, the unequal social framework that exists for black people would of course bring out jealousy/injustice/ indifference/ insert emotion at the situation (many cases, rightfully so). Full stop

3. Somehow you thought I had full knowledge of your situation and somehow was diminishing the pure (your words) racial component of the above. I clarified that I wasnt.

4. You also stated why I brought up "nonwhites". Again the conversation started with the component of white jealousy. I agreed and made general statements regarding the impact and causes of jealousy to all peoples, past racial components.

5. You responded :shrug: and insinuated why to even bring up nonwhites. Like I said, humanity is composed of all colors....thats not an offensive comment and also a true one.


6. You then stated a I was projecting based on merely stating the above.


From all of this, it seems you find my contribution flawed based on your responses to me. If this is not the case, so be it. Only you could answer that.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (01/25/24 10:45 AM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Pigs… [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28634422 - 01/25/24 11:55 AM (2 days, 8 hours ago)

It was in reference to the movie scene ffs. That you posted.. not a generalized statement.

You triggered my man :shrug:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Pigs… [Re: mushboy]
    #28634429 - 01/25/24 12:08 PM (2 days, 8 hours ago)

I didn't post anything about a movie scene.
Triggered?
No, but I will clarify accusations of projections and insinuations I believe are baseless.


Edit: Ok, I was amped.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Edited by SirTripAlot (01/25/24 12:17 PM)


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Pigs… [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28634468 - 01/25/24 12:45 PM (2 days, 8 hours ago)

Shit I’m sorry I thought I was replying to wolf :lol:

Derp
:thatsinteresting:


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Pigs… [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #28634475 - 01/25/24 12:52 PM (2 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
The point I was making is that some of the most hate-filled people among us are those who do not understand class conflict. People who get caught up in identity politics are suckers. 
[...]
My point is that identity politics causes infighting among people who should be comrades. It's true too.




And some of the strongest advocates for class conflict have understood that social identity is irrevocably intertwined - Emma Goldman immediately comes to mind; a turn of the 20th century anarchist who was also a forerunner in feminist and queer advocacy.

Two beliefs: 'I hate group X' and 'Confronting those who hate group X and systemic social inequality is an inseparable aspect of class struggle'. Both qualify as 'identity politics' but are otherwise fundamentally different.

Like it or not, people are currently divided across both class and social lines. We can recognize that class division lies at the root of economic inequality, while simultaneously recognizing that addressing social division is necessary if we want to create an undivided class comradery. Otherwise, how can you cooperate with those who would deny your individual equality based on your ethnicity, gender, sexual identity, disability, etc etc?




I wouldn't argue with that assessment. My problem is that, while our politics (in America) has spent the last 50-75 years focusing on issues of race, sexuality, ethnicity, etc it leaves no room for discussion of class issues, which I find to be much more important.

The point that I was making is that people ought to stop focusing on social divisions, and focus more on class divisions. Kaitlyn Jenner has a fundamentally different struggle than the trans person down the street from me. Their struggle is far more akin to mine, and everyone else's on my block.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Pigs… [Re: mushboy]
    #28634483 - 01/25/24 12:55 PM (2 days, 7 hours ago)

No worries you turned put to be right in one regard,  anyway.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKryptos
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Re: Pigs… [Re: mushboy] * 1
    #28634786 - 01/25/24 06:10 PM (2 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
'if you aint better than a n word than who are you better than?'

yah identity politics:stonedjerk:


Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I was making is that some of the most hate-filled people among us are those who do not understand class conflict




not the point of the scene or the movie. watch gene hackman discuss the film he would disagree with you but i guess you know better.

its about racism, violence and blind hatred ingrained in our culture. ... towards black people in case you needed clarification.




Those are, in order; identity politics, expressions of identity politics, and results of identity politics.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Pigs… [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28635185 - 01/26/24 03:33 AM (1 day, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
I wouldn't argue with that assessment. My problem is that, while our politics (in America) has spent the last 50-75 years focusing on issues of race, sexuality, ethnicity, etc it leaves no room for discussion of class issues, which I find to be much more important.

The point that I was making is that people ought to stop focusing on social divisions, and focus more on class divisions. Kaitlyn Jenner has a fundamentally different struggle than the trans person down the street from me. Their struggle is far more akin to mine, and everyone else's on my block.




In theory, absolutely - but how do you translate that into a real practice? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are a straight white male with no visible disabilities. Do you think it's possible that the way you perceive many social issues will be radically different from the perception of those directly harmed?

Of course, anyone's who's critique doesn't go beyond the social division that personally effects them is lacking as well - but I see the solution to be a more holistic approach which recognizes that both social and economic divisions are important issues that must be confronted together, rather than trying to give one primacy over the other.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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