|
greenEyes32


Registered: 09/23/16
Posts: 14
Last seen: 13 hours, 13 minutes
|
Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap
#28559775 - 11/28/23 05:16 PM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
|
|
I've got 2 pan cyan shoe boxes going. Started LC to grain bags 10/21. Spawned to bulk manure substrate (Gordo tek) on 11/16 pasturized using frank pasteurization tek. Got liquid culture syringe form sponsored vendor. I'm In 2nd round attempt with same culture. Rye berrie bags from sponsored vendor used both times. The 1st attempt started in late September colonized substrate nicely in online vendor new yield bin. Applied casing and started fruiting conditions. And ended up getting cobweb and green mold a couple days later after casing. This one I did spray down the substrate with water after mixing spawn in with substrate(mistake) or I thought it could have been I was using miracle grow peat moss and was using outdoor garden lime in the casing recipe (several years ago got away with using these 2 things in many successful grows of pans and cubes). I've since corrected that. I'm trying to determine what to do, yesterday I didn't see these spiderweb looking growth on either of the boxes. I'm seeing knots which is a good sign I believe. But this pan mycelium has had some whipsy growth in the bags and on agar as well. I'm contemplating spraying th area with 3% peroxide as RR said in a post for cobweb on pan cyans. But I'm not sure what to do here. Should I spray with peroxide if so should I spray the whole thing or just the area where it looks like it might be? He said 2 times every 12 hrs and should be gone. So maybe do that on 1 tub then case it and put to fruiting right away. And the other tub just case and try to fruit. Maybe I've left them too long in incubation. I included a couple pics of 2 jars going from same pan cyan liquid culture I put into agar and then transfered to 2 WBS jars (I prepared). These jars are growing much more aggressively and mycelium looks better than the colonized bags used in these tubs.From using liquid culture to the rye berrie bags ordered from vendor. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Hate to lose another 4 to 6 weeks of work. Thank you. Pics along the way below labeled.
1st round pan cyan mono tub pics. Spawn to bulk, 10/22 colonized, cased 10/26, Mold-11/6 tossed out. Same thing happen to Mckennai Cube tub same style tub same timeline, same liquid culture vendor used and same rye berrie bags used with the Mckennai.



1st round pan cyan grain bag on 10/4

2nd round pics (current) 2 shoe boxes pics today. Spawned on 11/16. Maybe cobweb in areas on both tubs. 1 tub grain soaked per feanks tek, 1 without soak.




LC syringe used in both rounds. To agar plate. Before transfers to WBS jars and new agar. 
WBS jars growth from the same agar plate above transfer (looks like more aggressive and healthier than growth in rye berries bags previously used this far) pics taken 2 days ago.

Edited by greenEyes32 (11/28/23 05:55 PM)
|
normalperson
Stranger


Registered: 10/31/19
Posts: 728
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: greenEyes32]
#28559833 - 11/28/23 05:57 PM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
|
|
|
normalperson
Stranger


Registered: 10/31/19
Posts: 728
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: greenEyes32]
#28559879 - 11/28/23 06:28 PM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
|
|
you may be suffocating them, how are you providing FAE? What TEK are you following?
|
Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,955
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: normalperson]
#28559903 - 11/28/23 06:42 PM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Your agar plate doesn't look very good, has this been transferred at all or is it the plate that got inoculated with LC? Have you got any better photos of the new plates?
The second jar doesn't look very good either. The growth is too dense for my taste and the second jar is hard to figure out. It does look better but might have two different things growing in there. Not sure, would be easier to tell when seeing it in person.
It is probably your LC syringe, might help to try cleaning it up by transferring it a few times. Could be your substrate prep as well, have you also used manure based substrate for the cube run? Maybe try growing in a sterilized substrate like EF-cakes or in bags but that will only help in case of ongoing pasteurization problems and will fail as well if the syringe is compromised.
One can only guess. Best to start from spore print.
I personally would chuck all the moldy tubs.
You can also ask questions in the official pan thread although this doesn't strike me as a pan specific problem so might as well keep it as public as possible.
|
greenEyes32


Registered: 09/23/16
Posts: 14
Last seen: 13 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: normalperson]
#28559963 - 11/28/23 07:28 PM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
normalperson said: you may be suffocating them, how are you providing FAE? What TEK are you following?
About 6 or 7 small holes punctured in the syran wrap and foil. I had foil over the syran wrap for a while but recently removed the foil to monitor more closely since appeared almost done colonizing.
I'm following this tek https://www.patreon.com/posts/new-simple-tek-44645256?l=es Gordo tek for the substrate recipe, and casing recipe but planned to use shotgun fruiting chamber for fruiting.or following his fruiting method. Except I substituted coir for the straw as he explains you can do in his write up and video.
Edited by greenEyes32 (12/03/23 03:27 PM)
|
greenEyes32


Registered: 09/23/16
Posts: 14
Last seen: 13 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: Baba Yaga] 1
#28560054 - 11/28/23 08:16 PM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Baba Yaga said: Your agar plate doesn't look very good, has this been transferred at all or is it the plate that got inoculated with LC? Have you got any better photos of the new plates?
The second jar doesn't look very good either. The growth is too dense for my taste and the second jar is hard to figure out. It does look better but might have two different things growing in there. Not sure, would be easier to tell when seeing it in person.
It is probably your LC syringe, might help to try cleaning it up by transferring it a few times. Could be your substrate prep as well, have you also used manure based substrate for the cube run? Maybe try growing in a sterilized substrate like EF-cakes or in bags but that will only help in case of ongoing pasteurization problems and will fail as well if the syringe is compromised.
One can only guess. Best to start from spore print.
I personally would chuck all the moldy tubs.
You can also ask questions in the official pan thread although this doesn't strike me as a pan specific problem so might as well keep it as public as possible.
The agar plate Pic in post was the plate I put the LC on. I'm kind of afraid it's the LC. I recently just started using agar.
I had good success several years ago on several grows for about 7 to 8 months time and didn't have any substrates contaminate before 1st flush. And during that time I prepared everything from scratch myself using a lot of franks procedures grain pre, bulk sub prep, casing, etc. And used spore syringes ordered online. This fall I've had these problems since I bought grain bags, bulk substrate(1st round), and LC online from vendors to start these recent grows again. The only strain tub I got to work to fruit has been camdodian that was started from spore syringe from a different company than the LC syringes I bought. Have had 2 flushes harvested off it and not contaminated. Back in for a 3rd flush now.
3 New agar cups pics 1st transfer from that larger petri dish. I labeled with #s to make communicating easier.




2 wbs jars new pics today closer up. #s added for communication




Pan cyan tray I made 4 to 5 days ago. Pics from today. Still from LC to rye berries bag. And using manure based substrate same as used in the 2 other tubs in post.



The Cambodian strain that is successfully fruiting I did go ahead and use manure based substrate leftover that was ordered online. I also discovered that I ordered 2 different manure base substrates from different companies I think 1 may have been sterilized and 1 pasturized. Another possible problem. I see mixed opinions about sterilized vs oadtueized substrates. So recently I decided to follow franks advice to pasturize not sterilize the substrate. But I just noticed in the Gordo tek write up he said it's best to sterilize if using coir. And pasturize if using straw. I missed that detail. But felt ok doing so since frank had advice on pasturizing subs with coir.
Do you think that it is cobweb mold or could it be high co2 conditions cause the mycelium in those areas to climb up? RR has said to treat cobweb with peroxide. I just don't know if I'm to spray the whole surface or not.
When making transfers to clean up the LC what would you recommend to accomplish that. What areas am I looking for to transfer?
Cambodian 1st flush. Kind of sparse compared to prior shoe box grows years ago. But I can't complain got 35 grams dried of 1st 2 flushes.and was pretty thin substrate thickness. 2" thick about.

Thanks for the help everyone.
Edited by greenEyes32 (11/28/23 08:20 PM)
|
Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,955
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: greenEyes32]
#28560184 - 11/28/23 10:47 PM (1 month, 29 days ago) |
|
|
Yeah, the thing is syringes can work great but if they don't then they won't. If these are contaminated with mold then separating the good mycelium from the mold is rather difficult or impossible. The best way would still be a print imo and starting a culture on agar. If you had more than 50 posts then you could participate in the marketplace since you are already a member for more than 3 month and trade spores or score some off a giveaway. I would send you a few prints but I am low in stock in the pan department atm and I'm also not US based.
I still think the jars are looking suspect for the same reasons as mentioned above:
#1 being very dense growth which I usually not get with any of the pans but I also never used that type of grain which I assume is sorghum. Maybe someone else can comment on this.
#2 seems to be two different things growing in there but again, I would appreciate if someone can add their opinion.
Unfortunately non of the plate photos are focusing on the mycelium, I know it can be difficult to get a good shot with those cups. I am using similar ones and take photos by placing the cup on a dark surface and a torch at the upper right "corner" of the cup, like this

Anyhow, from the little I can see the mycelium does look very dense which makes me think it's not clean, especially when the jars do have a suspiciously dense look as well but this is just a guess. Maybe your agar recipe is very rich and or has stuff like peptone or yeast in it which can make pan mycelium puff up like marshmallows or make it grow weird in other ways. It's best to keep it simple and nutrients comparably low. I am using 0.5-1% LME in all my agar and it does help reducing the fluffiness. Not saying it will be a guaranteed cure for your plates but it does help working with pan cultures.
Regarding the substrate it is best practice to pasteurize manure based sub. Coir is usually very forgiving and as long as you get one of the usual brands that people use around here it should be fine to just hydrate the coir (and verm if wanted) in a bucket by pouring the right amount of boiling water over it and put the lid on till cool.
I definitely see a white mold in your tub, not sure if it is cobweb and I don't know if H2O2 does help, never used it. You can play around with it if you like but I wouldn't hold my breath.
The tray looks still good so far.
Edited by Baba Yaga (11/28/23 10:54 PM)
|
greenEyes32


Registered: 09/23/16
Posts: 14
Last seen: 13 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28560732 - 11/29/23 12:53 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
|
|
Do you think the tubs look colonized enough to case and fruit?
And the black tray would you say to let colonize some more?
I've seen in part of your tek you talk about fruiting right away when you mix the spawn..
Here's a pic of agar with light shined in on black table. That whispy growth area on tub does look similar to how this agar looks along the edge.
Edited by greenEyes32 (11/29/23 01:00 PM)
|
Baba Yaga
♥ coir grower

Registered: 09/13/20
Posts: 3,955
Loc: Hyperspace Chicken Coop
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: greenEyes32]
#28561117 - 11/29/23 05:52 PM (1 month, 28 days ago) |
|
|
The tubs are colonized enough to case but the mold will most likely cause the tubs to fail. You can try but.....
The black tray doesn't look like it's fully colonized yet. I'd let it do it's thing for as long as it takes to fully cover the surface and add another 2 days before casing. You can try fruiting at spawn if you have more to spawn but I doubt it will help much since your cultures do look like they are contaminated. The agar is showing very dens growth and yellow discoloration, it's not a good look at all. As I said, try a simple low nutrient agar recipe to rule out that your current agar formulation is the cause for this, until then I would refrain from using any of these plates to inoculate more grain.
All sings so far are telling me that continuing with this syringe is not a viable option. You could try cleaning things up on agar but that is a big maybe so in the meantime I would also try to get my hands on some spores and start from scratch.
|
greenEyes32


Registered: 09/23/16
Posts: 14
Last seen: 13 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: Baba Yaga]
#28563549 - 12/01/23 10:03 AM (1 month, 26 days ago) |
|
|
Have you noticed problems with shaking grain jar or bags partial colonization? I see mixed opinions on this as well out there.
I appreciate your feedback thanks a lot.
|
normalperson
Stranger


Registered: 10/31/19
Posts: 728
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: greenEyes32]
#28563592 - 12/01/23 10:39 AM (1 month, 26 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
greenEyes32 said: Have you noticed problems with shaking grain jar or bags partial colonization? I see mixed opinions on this as well out there.
I appreciate your feedback thanks a lot.
the folks at the official pan thread think it is best not to shake pan cyans after 70% coloization.
|
greenEyes32


Registered: 09/23/16
Posts: 14
Last seen: 13 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: normalperson]
#28566882 - 12/03/23 02:56 PM (1 month, 24 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
normalperson said:
Quote:
greenEyes32 said: Have you noticed problems with shaking grain jar or bags partial colonization? I see mixed opinions on this as well out there.
I appreciate your feedback thanks a lot.
the folks at the official pan thread think it is best not to shake pan cyans after 70% coloization.
Thank you.
I went ahead with a little experiment and shook one of the 2 pan cyan bird seed jars I had going from the LC agar transfer shown in above posts. Just to see what would happen since I already had the 2 colonized tubs cased and are in fruiting now. And 1 more tray colonizing. I figured I didn't have much to lose. Check them out date I shook is written on the 1 jar and looks like it's recovered very well. I shook 1 of the rye berries bags colonizing (which ended up in the 2 shorboxes) it did not recover like this jar did at all. So looks like the agar helped and or the WBS grain jars prepared following Ranks tek, maybe they like better.
Pic taken today of Grain Jars 1 shaken 3 days ago (about 65 to 70% colonized) 1 left alone to see what would happen.

Update Pic (yesterday) of shoe box cased, then covered back up for 24 hrs then put into fruiting a couple days ago. I did end up spraying H202 on areas on both tubs several times every 12 hrs. Where cobweb or look alike mycelium was visible.

2nd tub Cased then put right into fruiting. This tub went in 1 day before the picture of the other tub above. Looks like the tub cased then covered for 24 hrs is further along than this one. Continuing to mist at least a couple times per day and they are inside shotgun fruiting chamber heater keeping Temps around 75. And have a air cleaner going in the area to move air around a bit.
Edited by greenEyes32 (12/03/23 03:28 PM)
|
attis
Stranger
Registered: 10/02/23
Posts: 1
Last seen: 15 hours, 8 minutes
|
Re: Pan Cyan Grow Advice Needed Asap [Re: greenEyes32]
#28633645 - 01/24/24 06:20 PM (3 days, 13 hours ago) |
|
|
How did the grow turn out?
|
|