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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public * 2
    #28631323 - 01/22/24 06:08 PM (5 days, 20 hours ago)

This video is insane!
This takes place in the UK.  This guy is playing some awesome piano and a group of Chinese people tell him to stop filming them... but they're in public.
One of the Chinese guys screams at the guy at one point.
A policewoman eventually arrives and seems to be confused on their own laws...
They need to remember they aren't in China.
Thoughts?




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Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (01/22/24 06:14 PM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 3
    #28631364 - 01/22/24 06:37 PM (5 days, 20 hours ago)

What a sad encounter.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Asante] * 2
    #28631369 - 01/22/24 06:40 PM (5 days, 20 hours ago)

Ironically the video is being circulated more as a result of them trying to stop it, where it might have been obscure otherwise. They Streisand Effect'ed it.


Edited by PatrickKn (01/22/24 06:42 PM)


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: PatrickKn] * 1
    #28631394 - 01/22/24 06:59 PM (5 days, 20 hours ago)

He was too quick with his communism/this isnt china angle, but there was contempt in the way the chinese guy deflected the touching.


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OfflineTrancedOutBrah
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Asante] * 3
    #28631469 - 01/22/24 08:22 PM (5 days, 18 hours ago)

Fuck the CCP, that's my opinion


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: TrancedOutBrah]
    #28631657 - 01/23/24 02:37 AM (5 days, 12 hours ago)

Nice piano playing.

China people were very confused about what their rights are in the UK.

"Are you a Roman?"  :lol:


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28631665 - 01/23/24 02:42 AM (5 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
They need to remember they aren't in China.




I thought in China it's pretty normal to be filmed all the time.
How else is the Chinese government supposed to keep track if you're entitled to a job or home upgrade? They need to know if you jaywalk or act too gay.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28631666 - 01/23/24 02:54 AM (5 days, 12 hours ago)

I think they have the least regulations around facial recognition software in the world.
That’s why there’s legislation against TikTok they think it’s being used to generate more facial recognition data.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28631668 - 01/23/24 03:08 AM (5 days, 11 hours ago)

They'd made some agreement with someone else somewhere not to appear on film, then when they realised that they were breaking their agreement they tried to unfuck their fuckup. Completely failed at diplomacy, tried authority, failed, tried appealing to authority, failed, got told to go away.

Years of working with Chinese tells me if they had been told it was live they would have stopped immediately. They would not have acted shamefully if they thought it was being broadcast.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #28631671 - 01/23/24 03:10 AM (5 days, 11 hours ago)

I think if they had politely approached and asked if they could be censored out. He might’ve considered it.
But they were so rude.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 2
    #28631689 - 01/23/24 04:09 AM (5 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
That’s why there’s legislation against TikTok they think it’s being used to generate more facial recognition data.



That's undoubtedly right, too. As well as collect tropes of other data about human behavior that will come in handy in their plans for World Domination. I'm not the kind of guy to buy into all kinds of conspiracy shit, but it's clear China is up to Google/Meta-style datamining with a hefty geopolitical component to it, the combination of which is more dangerous to world peace than North Korea's nuclear program.


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks] * 1
    #28632306 - 01/23/24 04:29 PM (4 days, 22 hours ago)

The piano in the video has been roped off and has guards watching it.
Apparently the MI5 are involved in this incident.




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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28632431 - 01/23/24 06:22 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

Because I watched the video this showed up on my YouTube. It’s a global incident now.
:rofl:


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28632437 - 01/23/24 06:27 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

Given the displayed arrogance they probably were very rich, hence the law makes an empty gesture to them that its being handled while pianoman was in his right.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Asante]
    #28632440 - 01/23/24 06:29 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

Do you think there are people guarding it 24 seven now. Just in case some naughty piano man was to sneak behind the ropes. Then start playing the piano.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28632448 - 01/23/24 06:32 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

probably not, just an empty gesture till the delegation is out the country.

they probably made good on their threat to take it to court and the cops are doing damage control.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Asante]
    #28632481 - 01/23/24 06:57 PM (4 days, 20 hours ago)

They were probably spies :smilingpuppy: But maybe employed by the UK


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Asante] * 1
    #28632492 - 01/23/24 07:08 PM (4 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Asante said:

they probably made good on their threat to take it to court and the cops are doing damage control.





AFAIK, they have no legal ground against the piano man to win any kind of lawsuit against him.


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: twighead]
    #28632512 - 01/23/24 07:17 PM (4 days, 19 hours ago)

The guy has already been on big-time shows talking about this incident:



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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 2
    #28632634 - 01/23/24 08:55 PM (4 days, 18 hours ago)

It was just the sort of launch into the limelight that his youtube channel needed.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Asante]
    #28632749 - 01/24/24 01:26 AM (4 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
...while pianoman was in his right.



I'm not so sure about that, though. It looks like the piano is inside a shopping mall. That's a private space, not a public one. On private property, you can legally limit (and most businesses in fact do) photo and video recording.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks] * 1
    #28632754 - 01/24/24 01:35 AM (4 days, 13 hours ago)

If people are filming a news story. Somebody can’t walk up to them and tell them to stop filming it because they wanna walk by.
It’s up to the business in this case. The business set up a piano and let people stream. He probably asked if he was able to stream to YouTube in there. Those people didn’t have any grounds to stop them.
He could have asked to have been censored out of the video. People have asked for that. But people have not been able to just have somebody not be able to film just because they exist in the same space.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28632776 - 01/24/24 02:46 AM (4 days, 12 hours ago)

Well, you assume that he had permission to stream. You also seem to assume that this permission extended to filming onlookers. I doubt either of these assumptions are valid, let alone both.

> But people have not been able to just have somebody not be able to film just because they exist in the same space.
No, but like you said, it's up to the owner of the space. And corporations these days are generally quite restrictive when it comes to these things. Understandably so - see what comes of it.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28632876 - 01/24/24 06:00 AM (4 days, 9 hours ago)

it's only illegal if it's used to defame or extort what they were doing is completely legal


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Yokal]
    #28632885 - 01/24/24 06:11 AM (4 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Yokal said:
it's only illegal if it's used to defame or extort what they were doing is completely legal



No. Portrait law in all Western countries explicitly entitle the persons depicted to block publication of the images. This is regardless of additional regulations imposed by private property owners.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks] * 2
    #28633414 - 01/24/24 02:37 PM (4 days, 31 minutes ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Asante said:
...while pianoman was in his right.



I'm not so sure about that, though. It looks like the piano is inside a shopping mall. That's a private space, not a public one. On private property, you can legally limit (and most businesses in fact do) photo and video recording.



It's a train station. You can film in public places in the UK as long as it's not for criminal or terrorist purposes. There's no portrait law that extends over that.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28633431 - 01/24/24 02:53 PM (4 days, 14 minutes ago)

Doesn't youtube take down videos of people filmed against their will?

They could nuke the video.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Asante]
    #28633433 - 01/24/24 02:56 PM (4 days, 11 minutes ago)

Absolutely not.
YouTube could not care less.
There are numerous videos up on YouTube right now of people saying stop filming me.
In fact, there are entire channels dedicated to it. Pretty gross actually.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28633878 - 01/24/24 10:00 PM (3 days, 17 hours ago)

I imagine they had something they were afraid about

like the chinese government using facial recognition to track them and find out something they didn't want the government to know about

if it was me i'd turn the camera off and ask them privately if they were scared and they could share what they were scared of


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Freedom]
    #28633921 - 01/25/24 12:15 AM (3 days, 14 hours ago)

you can film pretty much what you want in public in the UK- no one can do a thing about it.

couple of points >

the guy is known for confronting people in an aggressive way and not leaving it alone (hes making content for his channel - the more clickbait he can make the better it does)

the chinese people have no clue about UK law and the guy that starts shouting is being way too aggressive - he also trys to play the race card when the chinese flag is mentioned.

my main concern was when the police got involved and the policewoman who took him to one side tried to gaslight him into thinking he was in the wrong - totally unacceptable behaviour by the police.

the police should have told the chinese people that its totally legal and that they just need to move if they dont want to be filmed - it can also be noted in the video that members of the chinese party are filming and i will bet they have not asked anyone for permission either (regardless of the fact you dont need it in a public place)

....the UK has gone to shit from a legal standpoint of defending its own residents and many natives are tired of this crap.


Edited by pugster (01/25/24 12:16 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28633945 - 01/25/24 01:31 AM (3 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Asante said:
...while pianoman was in his right.



I'm not so sure about that, though. It looks like the piano is inside a shopping mall. That's a private space, not a public one. On private property, you can legally limit (and most businesses in fact do) photo and video recording.



It's a train station. You can film in public places in the UK as long as it's not for criminal or terrorist purposes. There's no portrait law that extends over that.



Railways in the UK have been privatized for years. Hence, the trainstations are PRIVATE property, not public space in a legal sense.

This station in particular is St. Pancras and it has explicit regulations on filming for the public pianos in particular:
Quote:

As primarily the pianos are for general enjoyment, we ask that anyone wishing to perform, photograph or film at the pianos for commercial gain, apply to use it for this purpose via the same form and contacts as below.



https://stpancras.com/filming-photography-and-events

They also explicitly limit filming and photography for commercial purposes. Since the guy from the YouTube video (Brendan Kavanagh) is a professional piano player, by all means his video was/is subject to these regulations.

All of the above is of course separate from the issue of portrait rights.

TL;DR don't assume a railway station is a public place just because there's lots of people running around. Legally, it isn't.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks] * 2
    #28633950 - 01/25/24 01:45 AM (3 days, 13 hours ago)

Shouty caps are not necessary.

Didn't know that train stations in the UK were private, it seems like an insane thing to sell off. I wonder if this gives the Chinese in the video any legal standing. I certainly hope it doesn't, their behaviour was out of sync with the country they were visiting. I'm sure some fuckers are digging deep looking for some legal justification for their inconsistency.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28633952 - 01/25/24 01:49 AM (3 days, 13 hours ago)

This simply reinforces my suspicions that he probably got the permission to stream from that piano. I doubt that was the first time he had ever done that before.
So, having already gained permission to be doing that. Somebody certainly didn’t have the permission to stop him.


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (01/25/24 01:54 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28633958 - 01/25/24 02:09 AM (3 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Shouty caps are not necessary.

Didn't know that train stations in the UK were private, it seems like an insane thing to sell off.



Well, it only happened in the 1990s after all and it's not like there has been any attention given in media or research to the vast sweep of privatizations that swept across the European continent starting in the 1980s with Thatcher kissing ass to Raegan and some critical infrastructure now having ended up in the hands of the Chinese. To cut a very long story short.

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Somebody certainly didn’t have the permission to stop him.



Permission to film does not waive portrait rights. The doubtful bit is to what extent these Chinese people were reasonably expecting the video to be published commercially (which, mind you, this is; the guy's YouTube channel is part of his business as a pro piano player). But even if they didn't, they had, and still do, all the right to demand the footage not to be published for commercial purposes. Which, again, is exactly what happened.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28633967 - 01/25/24 02:36 AM (3 days, 12 hours ago)

UK public should have been up in arms about those assets being sold. That said Australians were very complacent when our telephone and electricity grids were sold off.

One might question about how public laws are applied in private spaces like train stations in the UK, as well. Like guards at the station could expect to be treated as if they were working on private property, as they are there in a private capacity, whereas the public who are there in a public capacity may be subject to public laws except where that crosses over with things like station employees and trespassing laws.

Just speculating here, because it seemed in the video that the police and public were under the impression that the people there have public rights in the station.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #28634749 - 01/25/24 05:24 PM (2 days, 21 hours ago)

Zero fucks given, piano reopens.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13004487/London-St-Pancras-piano-freed-sealed-following-clash-piano-blogger-Dr-K-Chinese-tourists-demanded-faces-hidden-livestream.html

I had a look and found commercial imagery is if you are going to sell the images such as stock photography and train stations are covered by British law, despite being privately owned.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/railway-enthusiasts/guidelines-for-taking-photos-at-stations/


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28634787 - 01/25/24 06:10 PM (2 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Zero fucks given, piano reopens.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13004487/London-St-Pancras-piano-freed-sealed-following-clash-piano-blogger-Dr-K-Chinese-tourists-demanded-faces-hidden-livestream.html

I had a look and found commercial imagery is if you are going to sell the images such as stock photography and train stations are covered by British law, despite being privately owned.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/railway-enthusiasts/guidelines-for-taking-photos-at-stations/





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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28635125 - 01/26/24 12:15 AM (2 days, 14 hours ago)

awwww yay!  It makes me incredibly happy that the piano has been freed!!!!!  :nyan: :feelsgoodman: :lando:


There is one line from the link you shared, Northerner, regarding taking pictures in the train station that caught my attention: "Please respect the fact that some people may not want to be photographed."
I wonder exactly what that means?  Does this mean you are allowed to set up a camera and film the guy playing piano and any passerbys can be on camera?  What if the passerby stops and says they don't want to be filmed, like what the group of Chinese people did?


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 1
    #28635129 - 01/26/24 12:25 AM (2 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
awwww yay!  It makes me incredibly happy that the piano has been freed!!!!!  :nyan: :feelsgoodman: :lando:


There is one line from the link you shared, Northerner, regarding taking pictures in the train station that caught my attention: "Please respect the fact that some people may not want to be photographed."
I wonder exactly what that means?  Does this mean you are allowed to set up a camera and film the guy playing piano and any passerbys can be on camera?  What if the passerby stops and says they don't want to be filmed, like what the group of Chinese people did?





i think it means that you have the right to film people, and you have the right to not film people

and please be kind with your rights


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Freedom]
    #28635142 - 01/26/24 12:56 AM (2 days, 14 hours ago)

Would make a big difference if people acted politely and respectfully as a default mode, without legal compulsion. Crazy world.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28635147 - 01/26/24 01:05 AM (2 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
I had a look and found commercial imagery is if you are going to sell the images such as stock photography and train stations are covered by British law, despite being privately owned.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/communities/railway-enthusiasts/guidelines-for-taking-photos-at-stations/



Any attempt or even intent to make money with imagery makes the act of capture 'commercial photography'. If you shoot video for your YouTube channel that constitutes a part of your income through advertising, filming the footage is commercial. It very much applies here.

There's also this in the link you posted:
Quote:

Please respect the fact that some people may not want to be photographed.



Note furthermore that the site you linked to does not constitute UK law or private railway operator policies but merely attempts at summarizing all this in a very succinct way. You can't rely on that text to arrive at a legal definition of 'commercial photography'. It's a very informal, quick & dirty summary that's likely also written without much awareness of today's media landscape; i.e. it seems to cater fine for people making holiday snapshots on their travels and train enthusiasts documenting the different kinds of rolling stock, but it does not fit very well with today's reality of social media influencers etc.
Finally, Network Rail is an infrastructure management company that's active in maintaining & installing rail infrastructure not including railway stations. So whatever they say about stations is pretty much outside their scope of activities anyway.


Quote:

Northerner said:
UK public should have been up in arms about those assets being sold. That said Australians were very complacent when our telephone and electricity grids were sold off.



There was quite some upheaval throughout the storm of privatizations in mostly the 1990s (but starting in the 1980s and extending through the 2000s). However, I'm not sure if you remember and/or are aware of it, the 1990s were in Europe as well as the US a decade of particularly strong economic optimism. On that wave of economic and technological promise (remember the dot.com boom, which turned out to be a bubble?), it was fairly easy to sell the political idea of privatizations - after all, look at how brilliantly the market is managing itself and how expensive our public infrastructure and how incompetent our governments are (note that dominant political currents were relatively liberal)? So that's what the electorate swallowed and in many cases even applauded. Again, not sure how you remember that period, but I still have pretty lively memories of that period and was a fairly active newspaper reader as well back then. It all made perfect sense from the perspective we had then. Does it still do so today? Well, a little less so, I think.

Quote:

One might question about how public laws are applied in private spaces like train stations in the UK, as well. Like guards at the station could expect to be treated as if they were working on private property, as they are there in a private capacity, whereas the public who are there in a public capacity may be subject to public laws except where that crosses over with things like station employees and trespassing laws.

Just speculating here, because it seemed in the video that the police and public were under the impression that the people there have public rights in the station.



Generally, the mechanism is that legislation of higher bodies supersedes that of lower bodies. I.e. human rights supersede European (in the EU) or national (UK) legislation, which supersedes regional/community rules & regulations, and these supersede policies issued by private actors. So in case of a conflict of these regulations, the overarching regulatory body prevails.

This means that portrait rights will prevail over any local regulations; i.e. as an individual, you enjoy protection in terms of portrait rights within a railway station because it's managed by national (UK) law and whatever local/private policy exists, cannot negate this. On the other hand, the right to produce footage on private property is not laid down in national law, and hence there's no conflict and local/private policies in this sense will be valid.

This still leaves the conflict between portrait rights and the right to collect information (shoot footage). In a case where the footage would only be shot for private/non-commercial use, the conflict of interests would be between the right to collect information and any local/private regulation that may bar one from photographing others. As I argued before, it is very well possible that St. Pancras has local regulations along these lines - but it's also very well possible that the formulation of these is inconclusive in a legal sense. With imagery produced for commercial purposes, as is arguably the case here given the channel of publication and the commercial interest of its owner, these Chinese people can claim recourse to portrait law and while they could not claim the footage not being shot (at least not on the basis of portrait law), they could demand it not be published. Either way, is it turned out, the publication of the YouTube video as it's presently online in all likelihood constitutes a violation of these people and my expectation is that if they demand it be taken down, their case stands a very good chance in court indeed - and YouTube will probably not even take it that far and just take it down before it gets costly.

In any case, the problem here is mostly that this situation is effectively a nexus of the regulations of several authorities, and several different rights apply from both perspectives. This makes it much more nuanced than what one might expect given the initial outcries along the lines of "ridiculous, those Chinese should have just put up and shut up". It's actually pretty complicated in a legal sense to begin with, since there's a very good chance that the sense of entitlement of both parties has a legal basis. It's even more complicated because this event illustrates challenges in applying legislation that mostly predates the present media landscape with some cultural and social aspects thrown into the mix for good measure.

Finally, when evaluating this case, it might be entertaining to do a couple of thought experiments. Replace the Chinese people with a regular British or American family. Would we still feel the same about the thing? What if the pianoman weren't a white eminence with a PhD, but a Russian tourist with a big rolex, some gold necklaces and a horde of followers on Insta, YouTube as well as TikTok? What if the railway station wasn't that, but a busy supermarket that happens to have the same photography policies as St. Pancras? Legally, none of this would have made any difference whatsoever. But I bet it makes a LOT of difference in how we respond emotionally to such a case, and I also bet that there are still some very inconvenient truths underlying that difference even today in 2024.

So it's a rather painful event, this one. But not only for the reasons we might recognize at first glance.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28635152 - 01/26/24 01:11 AM (2 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Yokal said:
it's only illegal if it's used to defame or extort what they were doing is completely legal



No. Portrait law in all Western countries explicitly entitle the persons depicted to block publication of the images. This is regardless of additional regulations imposed by private property owners.




Idk in the rest of the west but in the US you have the absolute right to film whatever you want in public. There is no expectation of privacy for people in public.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koods]
    #28635153 - 01/26/24 01:14 AM (2 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Yokal said:
it's only illegal if it's used to defame or extort what they were doing is completely legal



No. Portrait law in all Western countries explicitly entitle the persons depicted to block publication of the images. This is regardless of additional regulations imposed by private property owners.




Idk in the rest of the west but in the US you have the absolute right to film whatever you want in public. There is no expectation of privacy for people in public.



Yeah, I should have made explicit (like I did in the rest of my post) that the right to block publication applies to commercial publications. AFAIK that's true in the US just as much as in Europe and the UK.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28635193 - 01/26/24 03:54 AM (2 days, 11 hours ago)

It was a live stream, artistic endeavour, not a commercial product. Police man knew the law when he walked up and said it's public, you can film in public. It should have ended right there. Really it shouldn't have got to that stage though.

I had thought about bias around this situation too. My own bias and that of viewers. I'd probably feel just fine whoever it was standing up for their right to play piano in public and stream it. But the spectacle with the people being Chinese and the way the authorities there silence and control people kinda hit a nerve. An even greater irony would have been if the dude playing the piano was Chinese and the disgruntled tourists were British.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28635206 - 01/26/24 04:12 AM (2 days, 10 hours ago)

I see your point, but disagree for several reasons. However, enumerating those will just lead to a repetition of things I've said multiple times already.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28635254 - 01/26/24 05:41 AM (2 days, 9 hours ago)

I haven't see anyone else anywhere else with the same interpretation of these laws as you have mate. I bet if the Chinese tourists can find a lawyer who agrees with you they're gonna pester that piano dude, they seemed pretty upset.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28635269 - 01/26/24 06:25 AM (2 days, 8 hours ago)

Wow, great argument. I'm impressed.

It would in fact be easy to find a lawyer to defend these people if they chose to press the matter. Their chances of getting this video taken down are astronomically good, given that it's a commercial publication that violates their portrait rights. Alternatively, they could demand payment of royalties.


Edited by koraks (01/26/24 06:28 AM)


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28635614 - 01/26/24 01:08 PM (2 days, 1 hour ago)

Considering piano man has shown up in multiple interviews with people like Piers Morgan. I guarantee the video isn’t going to get taken down. It’s going to continue racking up views like it’s nobody’s business.
If they want to continue to harass him, they’re just gonna give him more money and power. Then draw more attention to the video of themselves. I doubt they would do that.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28635651 - 01/26/24 01:53 PM (2 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
I guarantee the video isn’t going to get taken down.



These Chinese guys could have it down within 24 hours by simply invoking YouTube's privacy policy. There's a standard form for it. No need for any legal action, either. It's a clear cut case.

They might not be interested, though, or not (yet) aware of it being online. Keep in mind that Chinese social media are pretty much disjunct from Western platforms. They have their own bubble.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28635652 - 01/26/24 01:56 PM (2 days, 1 hour ago)

If they do that. They’re just going to be giving him more influence like I said. Then he can just ask you YouTube and YouTube is not a very good company. They see the potential of money. They’re gonna put it back up.

Is it possible they could have it taken down. Yes. Is it going to be? I don’t think so.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28635660 - 01/26/24 02:09 PM (2 days, 58 minutes ago)

Does anyone know why they didn't want to be filmed?


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Freedom]
    #28635662 - 01/26/24 02:12 PM (2 days, 56 minutes ago)

All we have is speculation.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28635678 - 01/26/24 02:24 PM (2 days, 43 minutes ago)

to me thats the important point. like yeah we have rights, cool, but clearly they were worried about something.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: koraks]
    #28635694 - 01/26/24 02:40 PM (2 days, 27 minutes ago)

There's no image (portrait) rights in the UK either.

https://www.claims.co.uk/knowledge-base/human-rights/image-rights


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #28635697 - 01/26/24 02:45 PM (2 days, 22 minutes ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
I guarantee the video isn’t going to get taken down.



These Chinese guys could have it down within 24 hours by simply invoking YouTube's privacy policy. There's a standard form for it. No need for any legal action, either. It's a clear cut case.

They might not be interested, though, or not (yet) aware of it being online. Keep in mind that Chinese social media are pretty much disjunct from Western platforms. They have their own bubble.




There's been multiple requests for it to be taken down. It's still up. All the main Chinese people in the film live and work in the UK.

Quote:

Freedom said:
Does anyone know why they didn't want to be filmed?



There's been released part of the film where the Chinese guy actually plays the piano, and they are all clapping and dancing together and stuff. Only after that they ask for that not to be used. We have all been somewhat deceived as to the context, the request really wasn't unreasonable imi.

edit:

I think the piano man would have reacted differently if the people had just asked him as a person to please not post their interaction, rather than claiming agreements with people and legal action. Probably would have been pretty cordial about it all.

Piling on the ironies, the chick who asked for the images not to be used is currently being sued for breaking those laws in China as a Chinese influencer, and the dude that got angry and claimed racism as soon as communist China was brought up actually works in London for a CCP frontline organisation.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Northerner]
    #28635708 - 01/26/24 02:53 PM (2 days, 14 minutes ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:

There's been released part of the film where the Chinese guy actually plays the piano, and they are all clapping and dancing together and stuff. Only after that they ask for that not to be used. We have all been somewhat deceived as to the context, the request really wasn't unreasonable imo.




I used to have pretty bad PTSD and sometimes I look at these situtations and looks like people get triggered by what they perceive as threats to their autonomy.

Filming can feel invasive, having your right to film can feel like a threat to autonomy


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Freedom]
    #28635720 - 01/26/24 03:10 PM (1 day, 23 hours ago)

Especially being Chinese, things said and done that can appear benign to us can be perceived very differently by Chinese authorities. Many would be worried about anything not rehearsed being recorded and published, because Big Brother.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28635918 - 01/26/24 05:18 PM (1 day, 21 hours ago)

They claim to be used to social credit scoring involving facial recognition.


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: durian_2008]
    #28635921 - 01/26/24 05:19 PM (1 day, 21 hours ago)

I wonder what its like to live in that system

I imagine it would be to live with fear, but maybe they are used to it like I am with driving


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Re: Guy playing some awesome piano in the UK gets harrassed by Chinese tourists saying to not film them in public [Re: Freedom]
    #28635996 - 01/26/24 06:19 PM (1 day, 20 hours ago)

I liked Henson Ong and the rooftop Koreans. Some Orientals, during the personal protective equipment and toilet paper mania, were on video explicitly saying how it was a contest to them. They develop cunning ways to screw with their authoritarians and express the same frustrations as libertarians. Morality is more or less universal under natural law, and they are self aware.


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