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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood
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Registered: 09/30/11
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
    #28630120 - 01/21/24 04:28 PM (6 days, 21 hours ago)

I don't consider having a logical discussion to be "fighting," but I'm sure some Christians feel like it's a fight.


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:rave::rave::rave: I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ; :raver2::raver2::raver2::raveface:


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OfflineAlyssa
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28630145 - 01/21/24 04:46 PM (6 days, 20 hours ago)

It's a fight with me unless you tell me your worst fear.


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I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.


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OfflineOpenQwerty
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Alyssa]
    #28630639 - 01/22/24 03:53 AM (6 days, 9 hours ago)

It's anyway difficult that a discussion does not become a "fight" if the discussion start from a very vague, non-logical definition.
Than if "there are deep feeling involved", from both side, it is a struggle just to keep the discussion BARELY rational.

My main point is that the christian definition of their god is made for to avoid (and not for to help) any rational discussion. After that, their god may be still exist. I have read (from a un-christian source) this definition of the christian/Hebrew/muslim god: "the spirit of what u feel in the Palestinian desert". Now: feeling are real, in the desert u can feel very strange things, so that god may exist. Even the ancient Hebrew definition, as i wrote before, is quite good and quite rational (assuming a polytheistic point of view).

But the "real point" of the Christians, when they discuss about their god, is not his existence, but to worship him. (even this made any discussion ...really difficult). I have hear many many time, from different Christians: anyway to worship him is good for you and for the society, even if he doesn't exist, just cause of his "agenda". I strongly disagree. To worship him is "absolutely not for me", even if he may exist.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
    #28630667 - 01/22/24 05:21 AM (6 days, 8 hours ago)

so basically irrational glue for the ten commandments, which might be great if the glue were sticky enough.


perhaps we need more sticky deities.

cute ones like care bears


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28630698 - 01/22/24 06:27 AM (6 days, 7 hours ago)

What do you label yourself as? If you do.


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OfflineOpenQwerty
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28630732 - 01/22/24 07:40 AM (6 days, 6 hours ago)

IMO the whole "agenda" of the christian god is something that we should avoid. Anyway, u are free. I Will not follow his idea of what is good and what not. Even if He may come directly to my house. IMO ...Many other gods have better projects about everything. Why choise the worst? Just because of the biggerst number of followers?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Pinkerton]
    #28630862 - 01/22/24 10:12 AM (6 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
What do you label yourself as? If you do.



other


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
    #28630873 - 01/22/24 10:28 AM (6 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

OpenQwerty said:
It's anyway difficult that a discussion does not become a "fight" if the discussion start from a very vague, non-logical definition.
Than if "there are deep feeling involved", from both side, it is a struggle just to keep the discussion BARELY rational.

My main point is that the christian definition of their god is made for to avoid (and not for to help) any rational discussion. After that, their god may be still exist. I have read (from a un-christian source) this definition of the christian/Hebrew/muslim god: "the spirit of what u feel in the Palestinian desert". Now: feeling are real, in the desert u can feel very strange things, so that god may exist. Even the ancient Hebrew definition, as i wrote before, is quite good and quite rational (assuming a polytheistic point of view).

But the "real point" of the Christians, when they discuss about their god, is not his existence, but to worship him. (even this made any discussion ...really difficult). I have hear many many time, from different Christians: anyway to worship him is good for you and for the society, even if he doesn't exist, just cause of his "agenda". I strongly disagree. To worship him is "absolutely not for me", even if he may exist.




It takes two to tango. If you're fighting with christians, you are equally responsible unless they are holding you hostage and forcing you to listen to them (which does happen with children of christian parents sometimes).

there's like 2 billion christians in the world, so there is a lot of variety out there in what a christian is. a particular idea about what a christian is says more about you than christians.


its like judging all people who read by the fact that romance novels are very popular. there are people who like romance novels, and sci-fi, and russian literature, and technical trade journals, and.....

something as huge and encompassing as a religion has many facets that evolve through time to meet many different kinds of people and cultures.

I would bet that your interest in the facet of worshiping god has something to do with you. why does that facet pop out to you so much?

Also I would say that logic has no ground. There is no logical reason for being logical. You have to have some impulse, some drive to motivate the use of logic. Like I have to be thirsty before plumbing becomes logical. Logic depends on non-logic.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28631051 - 01/22/24 01:01 PM (6 days, 45 minutes ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Pinkerton said:
What do you label yourself as? If you do.



other



And what may that be?

5000 quatloos on your label has nothing with PINKY but it does.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Pinkerton] * 1
    #28631062 - 01/22/24 01:10 PM (6 days, 35 minutes ago)

how do you label a self which is composited differently 10 times per second?

why bother except to give others undue access to controlling your freedom of movement and how you spend your time?

I weigh 128 lbs. I am 72 yrs old, that is more than too much information.


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OfflineOpenQwerty
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Freedom]
    #28631187 - 01/22/24 03:23 PM (5 days, 22 hours ago)

In my life I have meet a lot of different Christians from the most different faction of Christianity, and IMO the differences between -for example - the Pope and any mormon are really tiny. Then there are Christians Who don't take serious their religion, but any serious Christians will tell u the same: sex without marriage is bad, u don't know the Truth somebody else does,the other gods of this Earth are evil, the idea of family is holy, you have to work and to be even happy to make rich your boss, and so on.
In the western world only Christians (of every factions) and Muslims thinks that they have the right, granted by their God, to tell to everybody else what is good and what is the evil, based on their "holy Books"... This is a very huge "common ground", and it is biggest than -for example - the "common ground" that followers of the Norse gods and the followers of ancient Greeks gods may have. Their choice is their business, but until all of them still try to lecture the others (including me) about what is good and what not...I will be not happy to listen about the greatest of their God, and yes, I may even be a little "upset" about their whole "point of view". When I was younger I simply didn't care at all, but as I get older, I become less "nice" with that kind of people. An other "common point" between any kind of (serious) Christians is that if u are patient with their belief, (maybe simply because u have something better to do that to argue with them) they will immediately think that u somewhat support them, and this kind of "logic" destroy any possible patience from my side. Now: I don't think that every single christian are exactly like that, but: in several christian country, with several different factions of Christians, (in UK as well as in Italy, in Germany... in Spain) I have seen the same "trend", so I think to be able to said "Christians as group" are like that.

Fact-based Logic is the only way that I know for to reach something that look like a truth, but I am not the christian god, so maybe there are others ways...


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OfflineAlyssa
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
    #28631395 - 01/22/24 07:03 PM (5 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

OpenQwerty said:
It's anyway difficult that a discussion does not become a "fight" if the discussion start from a very vague, non-logical definition.
Than if "there are deep feeling involved", from both side, it is a struggle just to keep the discussion BARELY rational.

My main point is that the christian definition of their god is made for to avoid (and not for to help) any rational discussion. After that, their god may be still exist. I have read (from a un-christian source) this definition of the christian/Hebrew/muslim god: "the spirit of what u feel in the Palestinian desert". Now: feeling are real, in the desert u can feel very strange things, so that god may exist. Even the ancient Hebrew definition, as i wrote before, is quite good and quite rational (assuming a polytheistic point of view).

But the "real point" of the Christians, when they discuss about their god, is not his existence, but to worship him. (even this made any discussion ...really difficult). I have hear many many time, from different Christians: anyway to worship him is good for you and for the society, even if he doesn't exist, just cause of his "agenda". I strongly disagree. To worship him is "absolutely not for me", even if he may exist.



He does exist.


--------------------
I'm Alyssa.
I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart.
I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.


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OfflineBardy
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Alyssa] * 1
    #28631495 - 01/22/24 08:50 PM (5 days, 16 hours ago)

It’s settled then :lol:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Bardy]
    #28631497 - 01/22/24 08:55 PM (5 days, 16 hours ago)

done, next topic please


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28631632 - 01/23/24 01:25 AM (5 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
perhaps we need more sticky deities.





buddha said I am the god of gods
maybe it's true


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28631703 - 01/23/24 04:57 AM (5 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
done, next topic please



Karl's Journey.


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