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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: seagu]
#28628257 - 01/20/24 08:29 AM (8 days, 5 hours ago) |
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And you have a sense of emotional validation as proof of these claims? Or does it go beyond emotional validation and seem like a self evident truth where feelings, words, perception, meaning, all coalesce into something that is irrefutable?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Rahz]
#28628305 - 01/20/24 09:06 AM (8 days, 4 hours ago) |
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some things were written down 500 years ago, and taken verbatim.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,711
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 seconds
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: seagu]
#28628501 - 01/20/24 12:14 PM (8 days, 1 hour ago) |
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Quote:
seagu said:
Quote:
lifeiswhatyoumake said: How can the Christian god exist alongside the Hindu gods, the Greek gods, the Aztec gods, the Muslim god, etc? They have different after-lifes and stuff, right?
There are many elohim(gods). There is only One Elohim(God) that is All Powerful, All Knowing, Present Everywhere at all times, Who Created everything, Who loves us so much that He became a man to die for us to restore us back to Him(Do not most of us go away from Him?) and show us the Way to Life. And Talking with Him is part and parcel of the Christian life.
That's just what Christians believe. You are aware there are thousands of other religions, right? The Aztecs, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Greeks don't believe Jesus is son of God. How can all of these religions be correct if they have different after-lifes? That would imply overlap that isn't possible with your Christian beliefs, such as Hindu reincarnation, right?
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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I think the Pope said that Christians can be re-incarnated if they confess.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,711
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 seconds
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
#28628597 - 01/20/24 01:51 PM (7 days, 23 hours ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I think the Pope said that Christians can be re-incarnated if they confess.
True, I think he said that like last week, right?
Oh, I just realized something that I somehow overlooked in my earlier response:
seagu, you just said there are many gods. That goes totally against the Christian belief! What kind of Christian are you to believe in that?
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (01/20/24 01:52 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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I think the pope said that other gods can become christian angels if they confess.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
#28629035 - 01/20/24 06:39 PM (7 days, 19 hours ago) |
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the totality of everything which emerged from one spot, by necessity encompasses all of consciousness.
therefore its one somebody.
therefore, God.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,711
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 seconds
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Asante]
#28629042 - 01/20/24 06:41 PM (7 days, 19 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: the totality of everything which emerged from one spot, by necessity encompasses all of consciousness.
therefore its one somebody.
therefore, God.
You don't know for sure if the totality of everything emerged from one spot, though. That's an assumption.
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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how does therefore produce consciousness from a point?
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
#28629090 - 01/20/24 07:23 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,851
Last seen: 36 seconds
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: sudly] 1
#28629095 - 01/20/24 07:31 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:

Is it not obvious that this is all magic?
Or miracle
or foundationless from any logical perspective?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
#28629390 - 01/21/24 03:07 AM (7 days, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: how does therefore produce consciousness from a point?
if I ask that which identifies as God, it says consciousness is an inherent property of matter and the cosmic black hole changed its mind on one of the laws acting on it, reversing the direction of the force of gravity, turning a black hole imploding into a white hole blowing itself apart.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: Asante] 1
#28629407 - 01/21/24 04:07 AM (7 days, 9 hours ago) |
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that could well be. so long ago I cannot remember. sometimes I make things up when I don't exactly remember. hehe I got pretty good at it.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#28629408 - 01/21/24 04:10 AM (7 days, 9 hours ago) |
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I am not God.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: redgreenvines]
#28629409 - 01/21/24 04:11 AM (7 days, 9 hours ago) |
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2 seconds ago.
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OpenQwerty
Stranger



Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 161
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: clam_dude]
#28629459 - 01/21/24 06:28 AM (7 days, 7 hours ago) |
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I am a polytheist, and I think that my position is 100% rational and fact-based. Let's start whit some definitions. A "god" is a living being that is eternal (at least: in comparison with humans) and more powerful than us. So, for example any river is a god, (in the Greek polytheism is traditional to worship the rivers) and we can said that even a star like the sun is somewhat "alive", and so on. The christian/(modern)Jewish god have no any clear definition (remember? "I am what I am" is his exact words) so it's really difficult to said: "he doesn't exist " as well as to said "he really exist". The ancient Hebrew have a "better way" to define him: "Our own god whose name is unspeakable". This is a very good definition for those -like me- that knew by their own experience that any god is "unknowable" ABOVE ALL for the man who directly experience him/her. But this definition is 100% bullshit for those have seen some gods, but never really experience any of Them. The psychologist James Hillman correctly noted that any deity "tends" toward monotheism. This is how the human mind works. If any of us has any direct experience of any deity, this experience is so shacking that -generally speaking- your entire life will become different (or at least: your entire life will look to you in a different way). OP: we know from mathematics that "infinity exist". Let's count the number of the points on a straight line, then the number of the points on a geometric plane... There are more than one infinity. Also keep in mind that if a being more powerful than us doesn't want to be recognize by any of us, he/she can do it. But often christians/hebrew/muslims mistaken to recognize the possible existence of their god(s) whit to worship him. So, the christian/(modern)jewish god may or may not exist; to worship him is an entire different things. Firstly...Every single god has his/her "agenda", every deity has his/her will. It sound (to me) like the most exact definition of the christian/(modern)Jewish god is "that god who has that plan for us". Than ...Even when a god/goddess doesn't really exist, the act of worship any being change the men who worship that deity, even if they doesn't really experience that deity. And the change is based to the real or the supposed "agenda" of the deity (that may exist or not, that may be interested to the mankind or not, and so on). Honestly speaking I choice who worship firstly by their "agenda"(if any), for us humans ....And I will never worship the christian/(modern)jewish/muslim god exactly cause of it. At the opposite...
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,711
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 seconds
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
#28629794 - 01/21/24 12:27 PM (7 days, 1 hour ago) |
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Quote:
OpenQwerty said: A "god" is a living being that is eternal (at least: in comparison with humans) and more powerful than us. So, for example any river is a god, (in the Greek polytheism is traditional to worship the rivers) and we can said that even a star like the sun is somewhat "alive", and so on.
A river is just an area where water generally flows through at a volume larger than a creek. The sun is just a big ball of plasma that has nuclear fusion occurring. These things tend to exist for a longer period of time than humanity due to the laws of physics and biology as we know it. Rivers aren't more powerful than humans... we can dam them and use their energy for our own needs. The sun is more powerful than humans... for now.
Quote:
OpenQwerty said:so it's really difficult to said: "he doesn't exist " as well as to said "he really exist".
Yep, this is why I'm agnostic. Why would I assume gods are real or not real when you can't prove either? It's foolish to jump to conclusions.
Quote:
OpenQwerty said:: we know from mathematics that "infinity exist". Let's count the number of the points on a straight line, then the number of the points on a geometric plane... There are more than one infinity.
How is this relevant at all to the topic at hand? It just shows that humans are intelligent.
Quote:
OpenQwerty said:Also keep in mind that if a being more powerful than us doesn't want to be recognize by any of us, he/she can do it.
This is such a convenient excuse for theists to remain in delusion, isn't it?
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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OpenQwerty
Stranger



Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 days, 14 minutes
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So, do you think that the sun or the Moon does not exist? (Or a black hole. You cannot see a black hole). The sun or the Moon are gods by the definition of "God" in many ancient religions. You have just in mind a subjective version of the christian god. But hey, for example, Ganesha or Odin are even subject to die. The christian definition of "God" is not the only "Truth". You think that christian faith are not rational, so why do you accept their definition? Moreover, as I wrote before, their definition is really vague. A vague definition help both who want to believe and who does not want. And the christian god itself give about himself the MOST vague of the possible definitions. Then: any object may be seen as "infinite", from the right prospective (for example, taking some mushrooms). So, the sun, the Earth, the Moon and so on, are legitimate gods even if we assume that a God is "Who has no limits"(and even this definition is a quite Christian definition). But if u accept the christian definition of God, you should admit that we have limits, so we may don't see Who Can Do Everything. It is your logic that help "the case" of the christian god.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,711
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 seconds
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
#28629950 - 01/21/24 02:42 PM (6 days, 23 hours ago) |
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Quote:
OpenQwerty said: So, do you think that the sun or the Moon does not exist? (Or a black hole. You cannot see a black hole). The sun or the Moon are gods by the definition of "God" in many ancient religions. You have just in mind a subjective version of the christian god. But hey, for example, Ganesha or Odin are even subject to die. The christian definition of "God" is not the only "Truth". You think that christian faith are not rational, so why do you accept their definition? Moreover, as I wrote before, their definition is really vague. A vague definition help both who want to believe and who does not want. And the christian god itself give about himself the MOST vague of the possible definitions. Then: any object may be seen as "infinite", from the right prospective (for example, taking some mushrooms). So, the sun, the Earth, the Moon and so on, are legitimate gods even if we assume that a God is "Who has no limits"(and even this definition is a quite Christian definition). But if u accept the christian definition of God, you should admit that we have limits, so we may don't see Who Can Do Everything.
It is your logic that help "the case" of the christian god.
It's not a matter of believing if the sun or moon exist, it's a matter of understanding if they exist or not. We've physically walked on the moon. Black holes are believed to be real through astronomical observations. It's not a matter of accepting the Christian definition of god, it's a matter of understanding their definition of it so I can logically converse with them. The universe has no limits and is apparently expanding every day. Does this make the universe a god?
Quote:
OpenQwerty said: It is your logic that help "the case" of the christian god.
What?
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  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
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OpenQwerty
Stranger



Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 161
Last seen: 5 days, 14 minutes
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Re: Atheism is the only rational position [Re: OpenQwerty]
#28630003 - 01/21/24 03:18 PM (6 days, 22 hours ago) |
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If u accept their (christian) definition of "what Is a God", you either end fighting them or becoming one of them. Their definition is not rational, so it cannot be logically explained. Anyway, yes, in my ( un-christian) definition even the universe may be a god (like the other gods).
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