|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Is AI art truly creative? 1
#28626262 - 01/18/24 05:43 PM (9 days, 1 hour ago) |
|
|
Before I delved into it, I would be in the doubtful camp.
Then I got to thinking about the earliest of post-civilzation artists. I imagine most made their own paints and dyes, even brushes; and quite possibly, their own canvas or substrate. As the centuries passed, an artist could buy or trade for premade paints, brushes and canvas. Was that "cheating"? Purists of the day might say yes, but very few today would.
Then along came photography. Was that "cheating" in that you could create an image in a very short time compared to painting a portrait? No, it was just a new form of expression. Even as each camera became more automatic than the previous generations with built-in light meters and auto-focus and so on, people protested that these advances made it less of an artform.
I contend that this is the same with AI imagery.
Take a look at my online art gallery before you agree or disagree, and tell us if there is or is not, some degree of creativity behind these images.
www.pictorem.com/gallery/the.light.touch
To those who have dabbled, I would also like to see some of your creations.
Note to mods: I ask your indulgence here as I realize this is not a place to market goods and that is not my intention. I don't need more money. Also, I only have a year, or two, left and these images will be part of my legacy.
--------------------
Edited by OrgoneConclusion (01/18/24 06:16 PM)
|
GenesisCorrupted
Taoist, Writer, Student, Artist




Registered: 08/01/23
Posts: 7,168
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 minutes, 20 seconds
|
|
I think it’s a set of tools that allow us to express our thoughts more easily. I don’t think that the AI is in itself creative. It requires a lot of input to have been able to produce these images. Most if not all was not taken by choice or paid for by programmers of these AI. So I have a negative outlook of it. why hire an artist, if I could just use a program? Why pay for a writer if I can just make something with ChatGPT?
Google search results are ruined because of this flood of AI generated art. It’s gotten bad enough that just searching for the name of somebody will come up with a couple AI generated abominations of that person.
So when in the hands of an individual like you. It can be used creatively. But I feel like it’s being used in a very sinister way right now. Trying to take away money from artists and writers. Is not something I’m ever going to be in favor of.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
|
|
there is a lot of consistency to the works you are showing and generally they are flamingorgeous.
I did a few related to my brain theory stuff

They did not really express what I meant to express, but I did not spend that much time with it.
In any case just as photography provides art when a photographer is present and asks "what will it look like if I frame it like this and click NOW!?" the same what would it look like process is going on in the AI artist's creative process, although the tool is not bending light to film or sensors, he is bending ideas and pixels to a screen. It's still art.
As to whether it stands the test of time. well. NFT's are a rage right now. I like my hand drawn and painted paintings more than anything I have done with AI. But I think I am weirder than you and most people.


--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Thanks for the compliment.
I like Spock during a mind-meld. Did not know that neurons had such cute butts - lol!
Your painting of the two musicians is quite extraordinary!
--------------------
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:...
Your painting of the two musicians is quite extraordinary!
thanks, I was using Adobe InDesign which is a publishing layout software, I like it better than photoshop for polygon art, because I can move graphic shapes between layers and play with the transparency of layers. The polygons are really for outlining photos so that text can run around the edge of a figure, and the fill colors are really for backgrounds to photo elements, but I like to use them like colored translucent paper and lay them out while working you hear mouse clicks for each vertex I plop down, and I try not to place a lot of them.
In this one for reference I used a video frame from Hallelujah by Leonard Cohen in front and I guess Dino Soldo on saxophone.
It was a very loosely put together thing, which is what I like best. (falling apart..., or just about to, IYKWIM)
Several of my friends are wearing black T-Shirts with this printed on it. hahaha!
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,788
|
|
I think AI art is helpful for contextualising complicated or lengthy discussions, to kind of encapsulate the theme of a discussion, sometimes better than others, but with a little jiggling, generally quite capable.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,788
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:...
Your painting of the two musicians is quite extraordinary!
thanks, I was using Adobe InDesign which is a publishing layout software, I like it better than photoshop for polygon art, because I can move graphic shapes between layers and play with the transparency of layers. The polygons are really for outlining photos so that text can run around the edge of a figure, and the fill colors are really for backgrounds to photo elements, but I like to use them like colored translucent paper and lay them out while working you hear mouse clicks for each vertex I plop down, and I try not to place a lot of them.
In this one for reference I used a video frame from Hallelujah by Leonard Cohen in front and I guess Dino Soldo on saxophone.
It was a very loosely put together thing, which is what I like best. (falling apart..., or just about to, IYKWIM)
Several of my friends are wearing black T-Shirts with this printed on it. hahaha!
In regard to making artworks, how different is publishing software to AI really?
It's an AI mediated process at the very least with filters, algorythms and line fitting etc.
I get they are different, but not soooo different y'know, there are layers of semblence.
AI expediates the process, but Adobe draws the line somewhere below that imo.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
|
Re: Is AI art truly creative? [Re: sudly]
#28628125 - 01/20/24 05:37 AM (7 days, 13 hours ago) |
|
|
It may not be moot that you wrote "publishing software" rather than writing software or finding a new software solution.
since ~2013, the standards governing software developers which encompasses tools, libraries, test schemes, source code control, collaboration methods etc. have become strict guardrails for all developers, and these are primarily the Apple Store, and Google Play App store.
From my point of view, while this may prevent some security problems it blocks a lot of creativity.
But guardrails are what AI works with very well. Very few areas will be worked on to develop, and the rest will be fully boiler plated. AI uses data awareness to create within a definition.
Me on the other hand - I take a task - get side tracked and find something astonishing that really works, and I go in the new direction in an unconstrained way, then come back to the guardrails and put the idea into acceptable form - which is very hard for me.
Usually after I show people what I came up with - they steal it. hahaha! you could say I am a self destructive developer. certainly an out of the box thinker. Oddly it was easy for me to work in banks, others made my schemes fit the mould.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
|
Cuteness + psychedelia =

While the basic image we have all seen before, the textures and interplay of colors breathe new life into it.
To counterbalance all that cuteness, here is a much more original image. A simulated oil painting of a battle-weary Samurai.
--------------------
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,526
|
|
ace of hearts & jack of spades
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
|
|
I read a paper recently about "Centaurs" and "Cyborgs"
Centaurs, the paper claimed, are a style of AI user which has a clear delineation between the human-oriented task, and the AI oriented task. Centaurs tend to use their human expertise where it fits the best, and AI expertise where it fits the best. But there is next to no overlap. If they use AI, they let AI do the work and don't interfere. If they use their expertise, they don't augment it with AI. Cyborgs by contrast tend to have no clear delineation. The mix and mingle between AI tech and their expertise has no clear delineations.
I think this is kind of interesting in terms of AI art. Some may use it as a brainstorming point and then take their skill into the world. This image sums that up to me. This is an AI generated sculpture. But for someone who enjoys sculpting, it may be inspiration to create the physical form itself.

I think there are use cases where ChatGPT writes the majority of a prompt. This is much closer to a cyborg approach. Initial thought mixed with AI assistance to create a blended product. Then using that blended product to create an AI art generation.
All in all, I think it's interesting to ponder the way AI is integrating with humanity. I'm not sure I would classify all uses as artistic, but who am I to judge? I see most lay-people generating naked women. Is that art? I don't think there is much forethought, creativity, or direction.
Personally I find the leading edge to be where the most creativity happens, and it is that creativity which keeps me engaged with the medium. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


AI upscalers are interesting too. The way they can not only increase the resolution, but in so doing, add details that were not in the original generation. There isn't much artistic control in this process, even if the resulting image has new qualities. But having the knowledge to apply an upscaler is born from playing with the medium. So it's quite cyborgy from the jump I think.
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Is AI art truly creative? [Re: Kickle]
#28628517 - 01/20/24 12:26 PM (7 days, 7 hours ago) |
|
|
Interesting thoughts and images.
--------------------
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,792
|
|
We Are Safe:

Africa - Genesis of Humanity
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (01/20/24 05:34 PM)
|
lostintimenspc
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/20
Posts: 222
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
|
Re: Is AI art truly creative? [Re: Asante]
#28629368 - 01/21/24 01:57 AM (6 days, 17 hours ago) |
|
|
I'm still wondering how complex algorithms holding modern processors under heavy load so that they can impress us with new things on computers and in society really constitute any sort of sci-fi beginning or end of an era.
Seems convenient. Like a 'smart app' makes you think things are being handled with exception when it 'does its magic'.
As far as a computer being conscious... lol...
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
|
Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,848
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
|
|
I like the way you put that: an algorithm using thousands of the most advanced processors at max capacity
Quite an algorithmic leap. But in need of more efficiency.
Reminds me of the IBM super computers of the late 50s and early 60s. Except AI advances much more quickly.
As is often said: this is the worst these models will ever be
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,788
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Before I delved into it, I would be in the doubtful camp.
Then I got to thinking about the earliest of post-civilsation artists. I imagine most made their own paints and dyes, even brushes; and quite possibly, their own canvas or substrate. As the centuries passed, an artist could buy or trade for premade paints, brushes and canvas. Was that "cheating"? Purists of the day might say yes, but very few today would.
Then along came photography. Was that "cheating" in that you could create an image in a very short time compared to painting a portrait? No, it was just a new form of expression. Even as each camera became more automatic than the previous generations with built-in light meters and auto-focus and so on, people protested that these advances made it less of an artform.
I contend that this is the same with AI imagery.
Take a look at my online art gallery before you agree or disagree, and tell us if there is or is not, some degree of creativity behind these images.
www.pictorem.com/gallery/the.light.touch
To those who have dabbled, I would also like to see some of your creations.
Note to mods: I ask your indulgence here as I realise this is not a place to market goods and that is not my intention. I don't need more money. Also, I only have a year, or two, left and these images will be part of my legacy.
Quote:
From a neurocognitive standpoint, creativity is often associated with human consciousness, involving complex mental processes like imagination, emotional depth, and subjective experience. The human brain's ability to create art is not just a mechanical process; it involves a rich tapestry of experiences, emotions, and cognitive processes. AI, however, does not possess consciousness or emotions in the human sense. Its "creativity" is algorithmically derived, based on data inputs and programmed instructions.
Metaphilosophically, the concept of art has been subject to various interpretations over time. What constitutes art and creativity has evolved, often reflecting societal, cultural, and technological changes. Considering your analogy of the evolution of art tools and techniques, from hand-made paints to photography and now AI, each step has been met with skepticism but eventually accepted as a legitimate form of expression. Similarly, AI art can be seen as a new medium, a new tool in the vast landscape of artistic expression.
The creative process of AI involves analysing vast datasets of existing art and learning patterns, styles, and techniques. While it might lack the intrinsic creativity of a human artist, it can generate novel combinations and interpretations that might not be immediately obvious or intuitive to a human mind. This process can be seen as a form of creativity, albeit one that is fundamentally different from human creativity.
Regarding your online art gallery, while I cannot browse it due to the limitations of my current environment, I can infer that the AI-generated images in your gallery likely demonstrate a form of creativity. They are the result of complex algorithms processing and synthesising vast amounts of visual data, creating new compositions that may offer aesthetic value, provoke thought, or evoke emotions.
In conclusion, while AI art may not embody creativity in the traditional, human-centric sense, it represents a new frontier in the exploration of what art can be. It challenges our preconceptions and pushes the boundaries of artistic expression, much like each technological advancement has done throughout history. Thus, it can be argued that there is a degree of creativity in AI art, viewed through the lens of our evolving understanding of what constitutes creativity and art.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
|