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Offlinelongbus
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Ayahuasca in peru * 1
    #28625421 - 01/17/24 11:42 PM (10 days, 8 hours ago)

Hello friends.

I am planning on taking a trip to Peru for an ayahuasca retreat. I need to work out some shit in my head and I think this is the way to go. I'm wondering if anyone has any insight or recommendations about what's good and what's not good about going there for this. I am afraid of bullshit shamans. I want the real deal. I want to go deep. I've smoked a lot of dmt but I think that I could benefit from an authentic experience. Any thoughts?


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus]
    #28625458 - 01/18/24 01:17 AM (10 days, 7 hours ago)

Depends on the ceremony. I’ve seen some nightmare scenarios where they have like 15 different people in one hut. There’s somebody maniacally laughing. There’s another person weeping. There’s somebody screaming. But all that’s happening right next to you while you’re trying to have your experience.

That sounds awful.

But if you’re going to have an experience where you are basically left alone, and then they can come in and guide you along this journey. Almost a one on one experience. I think that could be really helpful. Deeply therapeutic.
But I don’t think you need to go to Peru to accomplish that. Just in my opinion. I’m sure this was going to be a very expensive trip.
Just do a lot of research. Look at their reviews. Make sure you are getting what you’re paying for.

That’s just my opinion. Best of luck to you.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus]
    #28625466 - 01/18/24 01:57 AM (10 days, 6 hours ago)


This is the video that led to my experience.


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28625589 - 01/18/24 07:15 AM (10 days, 1 hour ago)

This is where the Do your own research really means something. I know there are a zillion "rent-a-shamans" in Iquitos, the town at the edge of the Amazon. From the US State Department website:

"U.S. travelers participating in Ayahuasca and Kambo ceremonies should be aware that numerous persons, including U.S. citizens, have reported that while under the influence of these substances, they have witnessed or been victims of sexual assault, rape, theft, serious health problems and injuries, and even death."

That is not to discourage going. It just reinforces the importance of selecting a good venue.


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: Pendleton]
    #28625613 - 01/18/24 07:38 AM (10 days, 57 minutes ago)

Yeah it’s like anything. Once people see the potential for profit they’re suddenly ancient descendants of a long line of chosen shamans…. Especially in third world countries that hate America. You can easily do this in your home.


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: PancyanterA]
    #28625690 - 01/18/24 09:00 AM (9 days, 23 hours ago)

I’ve been to Puru for Aya.
I went through a group I’ve worked with in the USA so I knew I was in good hands.
Have you sat with an aya group before?

Two prominent styles are Shipibo and Mestizo.
Feel free to DM me I can give you some more specifics


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Edited by CHUCK.HNTR (01/18/24 09:02 AM)


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Offlinelongbus
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: CHUCK.HNTR] * 1
    #28626304 - 01/18/24 06:12 PM (9 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

CHUCK.HNTR said:
I’ve been to Puru for Aya.
I went through a group I’ve worked with in the USA so I knew I was in good hands.
Have you sat with an aya group before?

Two prominent styles are Shipibo and Mestizo.
Feel free to DM me I can give you some more specifics




I have not sat with an aya group before. It sounds weird to be in a group of people. I would thnk the shaman might know some shit to make you get the most out of your experience.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus]
    #28626480 - 01/18/24 08:54 PM (9 days, 11 hours ago)

Yeah it seems different, like the experience is mostly internal and you're not really that aware of your surroundings once it kicks in. I guess the the lead up to and landing from the experience that can help, and also having a decent sitter right there if you lose your shit.

Is this the reasoning?


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: Northerner]
    #28626538 - 01/18/24 09:56 PM (9 days, 10 hours ago)

My reasoning is that I want a shaman who knows what's up to make it so that I'm not just fucked up on a drug, but I'm having an experience.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus]
    #28626548 - 01/18/24 10:02 PM (9 days, 10 hours ago)

You’re going to have an experience.
The shaman can help you understand what you’re experiencing. That’s how I would describe it.


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Offlinelongbus
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28626569 - 01/18/24 10:37 PM (9 days, 9 hours ago)

I've already smoked so much DMT. Do I really need a shaman?


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus]
    #28626573 - 01/18/24 10:40 PM (9 days, 9 hours ago)

You don’t really get to remember what you experienced on DMT because you come back so fast. On ayahuasca you’re really experiencing that for a while. You’re going through a journey. So it’s not so bad to have somebody with a lot of experience to guide you. I wouldn’t say it’s necessary. You sound experienced. But it could help.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus] * 2
    #28627248 - 01/19/24 01:30 PM (8 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

longbus said:
I've already smoked so much DMT. Do I really need a shaman?



You could try oral DMT and see what it's really about. I've done DMT whole bunch of times as well, but very few without harmalas or caapi. It's slower paced and much longer duration with an maoi. Maybe after doing that a bit you could decide whether it's really worth it for you to have that type of experience with a guide.

Drug tourism seems odd to me, and I can't figure the value for people who don't need a sitter. But some people are into it hey.


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Offlinelongbus
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: Northerner]
    #28627928 - 01/19/24 11:15 PM (8 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

longbus said:
I've already smoked so much DMT. Do I really need a shaman?



You could try oral DMT and see what it's really about. I've done DMT whole bunch of times as well, but very few without harmalas or caapi. It's slower paced and much longer duration with an maoi. Maybe after doing that a bit you could decide whether it's really worth it for you to have that type of experience with a guide.

Drug tourism seems odd to me, and I can't figure the value for people who don't need a sitter. But some people are into it hey.




The thing is, it's fucking expensive!

I had a really bad accidental K trip recently that's scared me from drugs. I thought the bag had m in it but it was K (i never do K either so this was totally unknown to me). I hit a super big rail of it and felt like I was going to die. It's given me drug anxiety. I feel like a shaman could be good. But fuck man it's like 6k for a trip. What the fuk?! Ridiculous.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus]
    #28627938 - 01/19/24 11:22 PM (8 days, 9 hours ago)

Yeah, it’s absurd how much money it costs.


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28627944 - 01/19/24 11:27 PM (8 days, 9 hours ago)

If they really cared about healing they'd make it more affordable. It is elitist at this point. It makes me want to just do it alone. I just want the traditional knowledge. But maybe fuck that knowledge. Fuck all that bullshit. The knowledge is in the plant. I don't need some fucking dick whistling at me. I can figure it out. If I can handle freebase, tea should be easy. I used to smoke dmt for hours at a time. Pretty much the same thing.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus]
    #28627947 - 01/19/24 11:29 PM (8 days, 9 hours ago)

Just be careful. Click my Sig.
You can PM if you have questions.


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus] * 2
    #28627998 - 01/20/24 12:23 AM (8 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

longbus said: The knowledge is in the plant. I don't need some fucking dick whistling at me. I can figure it out.




True, although minor correction, the knowledge isn't exactly within the plant, the knowledge is within you, it's within us all, the plants just make it accessible, which isn't in any way to downplay the plants at all, but like people who meditate or do yoga or other things can access similar states and knowledge too, at least from what they say (i wouldn't know, but i don't doubt there's other ways there, i just overall recommend the plants, as they are the original catalysts), so the states are internal, within ourselves, the plants just help us access them.

Take it easy on yourself though, there's plenty of time to learn things and you learn as you go along, but it's worth it. Imo, so long as you can handle yourself, there's no reason to go to a ceremony or do it traditionally. I took it daily/near daily for 4 years straight, i did absolutely fine (aside from the weirdness that Cannabis brought into my life lol), but that's me, people are different of course.

With that said, if you wanna go about this on your own, it's pretty easy peasy, just take some Harmala extract, or Rue seed, or Caapi vine tea, and an hour later preferably drink a tea of a DMT-containing plant that's properly dosed, and you can even sip on the DMT for 10 to 15 minutes for a smooth/gentle come up with little to no intensity, or you can add 3 to 4.5 grams of dried Lemon Balm leaf tea to the mix which will clean up bodyload, smooth out the come up intensity, and add relaxative and anti-anxiety properties to the mix, and it's actually pretty manageable then, ime.

The Harmala dosage you can't really go wrong with, i mean you can overdo it on the Harmalas and have more in the way of Harmala-related side-effects (although the side-effects go away with regular Harmala consumption, like daily or a few times a week for a few weeks), but ime more Harmalas is better, to an extent, definitely don't wanna overdo it especially at first but it's definitely better and makes things more effective to have a fuller Harmala dosage, especially since it inhibits MAO-A more fully and then even a little bit of DMT can go a long way. The DMT though, that's what you wanna be a little careful about, because that's where the majority of the intensity and power of the experience comes from, so DMT dosage is of upmost importance and it wouldn't be wise to overdo it although if you do overdo it, throwing up, or using Lemon Balm or a benzo, or having some reassurance from someone that you're okay, music, breathing, surrendering/letting go/accepting, in case of emergencies an anti-psychotic (preferably one that also blocks the Alpha 1A Adenergic receptor since i believe that's where most of DMT's intensity comes from), some Tobacco, and quite a few other things, can all help if you should find yourself in deeper DMT territory than you had anticipated lol. The DMT come up is fairly quick, about say 30 minutes to an hour maybe, after that things stabilize and get good, but that come up can be rather harrowing if you don't smooth it out some or you take too much.

So just keep in mind the DMT dosage, and you should be just fine, imo/ime. Alternatively, there's also Psilohuasca (mushrooms or 4-ACO-DMT with Harmalas/Rue/Caapi), some differences but overall the same medicine, just using mushrooms instead of DMT, still Ayahuasca at the end of the day (since the Ayahuasca comes from the Harmalas).


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28628010 - 01/20/24 12:33 AM (8 days, 8 hours ago)

You don’t  have to go to Peru for a traditional aya ceremony they are happening state side all the time.
It can just take a bit to find one.

Before I started sitting with aya circles I primarily tripped solo (mainly mushrooms) and sometimes with one or two friends on rare occasions.

I had great apprehension about being in a group setting but it has made all the difference for me.
That vulnerability has helped open me up to people even just in an abstract way.
The container of the ceremony has helped me go deeper on my solo mushroom trips as well: I’ve taken small rituals and songs with me on the mushroom journeys.


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: CHUCK.HNTR] * 1
    #28628048 - 01/20/24 01:57 AM (8 days, 6 hours ago)

Yeah it seems like a hell of a price to pay for a trip sitter.

I feel like if you want the shamanic experience you can find one in your area. Hell i've met plenty of hippies who claim to be shamans. When it comes to spiritual healing I feel like it should come from someone you've actually cultivated a spiritual relationship with. These 'shamans' down in south America are probably doing it for the cash and half of them probably heard that white people would pay thousands to do it and just decided to start calling themselves shamans to cash in.

Or worse yet the tour company came first and found some random local to underpay to be their local shaman.

Forgive me but if I'm going to do ayahuasca it's going to be somewhere i'm comfortable with a guide I know and trust and NOT in the fucking jungle with some random dude I just met.


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #28628302 - 01/20/24 09:04 AM (7 days, 23 hours ago)

The majority of people on shroomery are independent seekers, and courageous critical thinkers so I totally get the above response. I felt the exact same way and still do in many ways but sitting in ceremony has changed my life.

No doubt there are many charlatans and money grabbers  it took me 2 years to find the right group to sit with.
A good vegetalista or curandero or, “shaman” (not the word they usually call themselves) know the “medicine” (what aya is referred to) really well but also know it’s the medicine that does the work not them. They are there to hold space in a profound way by nature of the ceremony. They are not trip sitters that is usually someone else 2-3 other people.

The curandero also knows the ikaros (songs) and can read the room as a whole.  As many who trip know, music can be very profound on psychedelics. The ikaros many of which have been passed down like old folk songs and many that were born through the medicine itself act as vibrational portals to help heal.

This way of course is not for everyone but I have deep respect for the ceremony and the people that have dedicated their lives to keeping it alive. If you decide to find a group absolutely do your due diligence and not be taken by a charlatan.

•look for a traditional group I sit with the Mestizo tradition, Shipebo or Ashaninca and a few other tribes have unique ceremony styles as well.
Santo Dieme is very common in the USA but I decided early on this was not group I wanted to sit with although I have friends that love it, for me it felt too cultish. And because I was raised catholic its origin threw me off.

•the leader should know aya well and also know the aya does the work

• there should be a very strict no sexual contact policy

•Costs to expect the in the USA $200-400 a night this covers the meeting place, all facilitators, food at the end of the night, the 4-6hr ceremony and medicine. There is usually a free option for sleeping as well either camping or in the ceremony room.


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Re: Ayahuasca in peru [Re: longbus] * 2
    #28629945 - 01/21/24 02:40 PM (6 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

longbus said:
Hello friends.

I am planning on taking a trip to Peru for an ayahuasca retreat. I need to work out some shit in my head and I think this is the way to go. I'm wondering if anyone has any insight or recommendations about what's good and what's not good about going there for this. I am afraid of bullshit shamans. I want the real deal. I want to go deep. I've smoked a lot of dmt but I think that I could benefit from an authentic experience. Any thoughts?



Do you speak spanish? If you don't know the local language I would not expect to find a truly traditional ceremony. Its been translated for tourism, my guess you'd have to spend weeks deep in there talking to locals and sussing out where the true shamans are and if you're welcome.

I've never been there but my friend toured Mexico, Columbia and I think some of Peru for a couple years, living off his guitar and staying with friends he'd make. He took part in all kinds of ceremonies, even went out to collect lophophora and prepare it with the shaman. He had some bad stories though too. Described a shaman that tried to rape him, while tripping in a sweat lodge. And idk what went down on his last trip but he came back seeming a little different and had a fatal relapse shortly after returning to the states.

You can have really awesome experiences in your own setting too. I think I spent 200-300$ to prepare about 8 doses of it and I shared it with a bunch of friends on a Valentine's full moon. Was a night I'll never forget and very therapeutic. Wasn't a structured, formal ceremony, but is all that really necessary? I think the key thing was us all being on Ayahuasca together, it was like shining a light into a faceted crystal and having it reflect everywhere. Each person was the face of this collective crystal, reflecting Aya's empathetic, compassionate energy back at each other. I've had good solo trips too but I think getting to share the experience with other people is something special.

Another thing about paid ceremonies is you're with strangers from all over the world. I think some of those trips are multiple weeks where you'd get a chance to know the other people and build up to the experience together, but still I've seen rules where you stay separated on your own mat and sit quietly the entire time. You can do it alone in your room if you want the quiet introspective experience. But if you do it in a group you might as well do it with people you're comfortable with, like friends, so you have that tribalism built in and aren't anxious to be yourself with each other.


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