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Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28622054 - 01/15/24 11:19 AM (13 days, 2 hours ago)

Reality is the experience in which things like observation, measurement, laws of physics, the operation of technology etc are all consistent.

If you cannot change the measurement of how tall you are by forming the opinion that you are not tall, or by having the opinion that you are, then you are really that tall.

There is nothing subjective about reality in terms of the viewer,  only the experience is subjective, not what is experienced. This is because the subjective aspect of sensory experience is also consistent, it is objectively real or true.

If the subjective nature of perception was definitive it would be self subjective, ergo inconsistent. The idea that perception is subjective is objectively true, this proves that there is objective reality that we experience. Reality is not subjective, no matter what you think about how tall you are, that doesn't change how tall you are. Your subjective experience of tallness doesn't change anything real when it all comes down to it.


Anyone could measure how tall I am and they would all get the same measurement because human beings do not affect reality with their opinions.

We do not determine what reality is.
It isn't a matter of subjective opinion.


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InvisibleNillion
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Loc: Terra Firma
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28622156 - 01/15/24 12:59 PM (13 days, 41 minutes ago)

Is there any evidence that supports the idea that there is no reality?


The consistency of materials is very strong evidence, without something to indicate that there is no objective reality why doubt it?


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InvisibleNillion
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Posts: 1,000
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28622401 - 01/15/24 04:54 PM (12 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
I don't see any evidence that supports or denies an external reality.




Fair enough.

Quote:

Freedom said:
why couldn't consistency happen without an external reality?





Because if reality is a subjective perception then it cannot be consistent, unless that subjectivity is based in objective reality. It self negates.

Quote:

Freedom said:
Its not so much as doubting, as a lack of belief in it, and lack of belief against it. Both beliefs seem unnecessary, unprovable and unhelpful.




You write from the perspective that reality exists even as you deny believing in it. Otherwise there is nothing to reject nor say. Your willingness to share a perspective is either a belief that others exists for real, or a belief that we are all in your head and you are just talking to yourself in an elaborate way.

Do you think that a man like me can be a product of your imagination?


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28622955 - 01/16/24 05:52 AM (12 days, 7 hours ago)

Isn't the origin of the idea that reality doesn't exist actually mental illness?

There are people who have severe deficits in terms of the perception of reality. They often require heavy medication.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28623002 - 01/16/24 06:38 AM (12 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
in a traditional way, yes, but these days we have to allow that in fact each of us has their own reality but together we share life and resources and we serve eachother as well.




I'm fond of the saying that there is a separate sky for each of us.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623155 - 01/16/24 09:08 AM (12 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Why is it that subjective experience could not be consistent without an external reality to create consistency?




If the subjective experience is consistent it is objectively based and not subjective. It's self refuting.

This seems clear to me so we may be at an impasse.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623200 - 01/16/24 09:49 AM (12 days, 3 hours ago)

I am of the opinion that if one cannot explain the origin of a thing, that doesn't mean that thing does not exist.

Regarding Subjective:
Quote:

Formed, as in opinions, based upon a person's feelings or intuition, not upon observation or reasoning; coming more from within the observer than from observations of the external environment.

Resulting from or pertaining to personal mindsets or experience, arising from perceptive mental conditions within the brain and not necessarily or directly from external stimuli.

Lacking in reality or substance.

Experienced by a person mentally and not directly verifiable by others.




I am using all of these simultaneously as they are interrelated to me.

As for further explanation, I provided what is a satisfactory explanation of this to me already in the thread and assume that we are now at an impasse. We are interpreting the data differently, it seems.



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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Kickle]
    #28623324 - 01/16/24 11:13 AM (12 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Consistency is subjective. Measuring someones height in nanometers will vary more from measurement to measurement than rounding to inches. So subjectively we try to use the more consistent measurement and ignore the more subtle differences.

At very small scales we acknowledge that other factors must be accounted for, because variation is constant. It isn't enough to measure a thing, to maintain the appearance of consistency many such things must be measured.



I strongly disagree with that.

What you describe is called a margin of error.
It doesn't negate consistency.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623330 - 01/16/24 11:16 AM (12 days, 2 hours ago)

Freedom, what you call assertions without explanation are valid explanations to me.

At most I can reword them.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623369 - 01/16/24 11:43 AM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

Yes, I understand you have do not understand what I am portraying.

Perhaps I am mistaken and my position is incoherent?

It makes perfect sense to me though and I'm not into argument for arguments sake, despite perhaps appearing to do that at times.

No worries!

I've presented my position to my satisfaction and there is nothing in the rule book of life that says we must agree.

My ontological position is that reality is a thing independent of humanity and that reality existed before we did and will exist after the last human is no more than cosmic dust again.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623398 - 01/16/24 12:06 PM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

I'm not going to explain why margins of error do not invalidate the measurements they pertain to.

I honestly think I shouldn't have to.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623412 - 01/16/24 12:18 PM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

Then I find the notion that they invalidate consistency to be spurious.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Kickle]
    #28623429 - 01/16/24 12:27 PM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Who made such a claim?




For all intents and purposes you did:

Quote:

Kickle said:
Consistency is subjective. Measuring someones height in nanometers will vary more from measurement to measurement than rounding to inches. So subjectively we try to use the more consistent measurement and ignore the more subtle differences.





Consistency is literally objective by definition.
If you disagree with this, then we are at an impasse.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #28623443 - 01/16/24 12:35 PM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

I must be open to the possibility that I am confused and am mistaken about all of this.

It may be the case that I am not intelligent enough to see your point and that my point is too flawed to make sense to others.

I know that accusation has been made repeatedly here at the forum, that I am too stupid to understand basic things. It is not impossible for that to be true.

Given that, and that I have already espoused my position and the ontological context it arises in, I think it best to concede that I am out of my depth here and you may be right and I am wrong, and then I can withdraw from the conversation.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623453 - 01/16/24 12:42 PM (12 days, 58 minutes ago)

I can also appreciate that you didn't insult me or call me delusional for having a different opinion. I see that kind of behavior a lot from philosophically inclined moderators at forums, like the Nexus, and am glad that isn't happening here.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28623517 - 01/16/24 01:32 PM (12 days, 7 minutes ago)

I suspect that beliefs live through people, so to speak.


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