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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
#28622045 - 01/15/24 11:08 AM (13 days, 2 hours ago) |
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The alternative is solipsism? Are there other choices?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Nillion]
#28622078 - 01/15/24 11:45 AM (13 days, 1 hour ago) |
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I like that. But who's to say a dream must be wholly subjective? It could indicate that there's more to it than a conscious dreamer which adds unknowns and complexity to the idea of solipsism.
That's why solipsism has more than one connotation. I tend to reject the ones that involve me being real but you not being real. But even if that were true, what difference does it make?
Disbelief in objectivity doesn't make objectivity less reliable.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
#28622211 - 01/15/24 01:46 PM (12 days, 23 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said:
Quote:
Rahz said: The alternative is solipsism? Are there other choices?
Wouldn't solipsism be the belief that reality doesn't exist?
Why would you choose either? I'm saying that not only do we not have to choose, there may be no useful reason to choose.
People often want to know what is true. Understanding the options, perhaps having an appreciation for particular viewpoints, doesn't preclude absence of choice.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28622214 - 01/15/24 01:47 PM (12 days, 23 hours ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: mostly I have no distinction between objectivity and subjectivity, I know my senses are iffy and my experience is introverted, but that puts me (pretty much) how I want to, and how I am best equipped to, enjoy "reality".
in that way, it's personal, but I am keeping it real with reflection in the moment.
Every solipsist is a realist when crossing traffic except the ones who get Darwin awards.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
#28622294 - 01/15/24 02:50 PM (12 days, 22 hours ago) |
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Quote:
I think that's the benefit of not choosing if reason doesn't dictate it. If you already believe something, its hard to have the freedom to explore. If I don't know, then I'm free to look at all possibilities.
There may be something outside my exprience, there not be, perhaps its even something else beyond my ability to comprehend
Makes sense. I do lean toward things being as they seem but it doesn't prevent me from exploring other possibilities.
Quote:
You don't have to believe a video game is real to accept the rules of the game. Seeing a video game as un real doesn't mean the character won't die, in the game.
Agreed but this is evidence for more than self/thought. Why would there be objectivity if only the self existed? It leads to speculation that has no utility. I'm not knocking the entertainment value but I suppose there's more to solipsism than entertainment.
And that seems to be how one feels about existing and their place in this situation we're tentatively calling reality. Seems real. Seems unreal.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28622402 - 01/15/24 04:55 PM (12 days, 20 hours ago) |
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Yes I wasn't implying you were, it was just an example of how there is utility in thinking of cars as real/objective things.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: redgreenvines]
#28622454 - 01/15/24 05:50 PM (12 days, 19 hours ago) |
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I've got a friend who has an electric scooter that goes 55.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: sudly]
#28624264 - 01/17/24 07:25 AM (11 days, 6 hours ago) |
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It does speak to the limitations of knowledge and of being human. There is utility in realism as the obvious (how things seem), and utility in being able to revise perception. I don't think there is a goal to believe or not believe. We are all believers in that sense but sure, we can also be questioners and discover the limitations of knowledge and being human.
At the same time, perceptions and working concepts are not inherently fully built models covered in glass and steel, ready to be demolished. Perhaps such models are sometimes built for target practice, which too might be a matter of utility.
That's why I lean rather than believe. Perhaps it is but a dream in which getting hit by a car is "game over", but as has been pointed out these non-subjective conditions seem substantial which is where the utility exists. Beyond that we have semantics to roll around in which is not a terrible thing but all participants probably practice care crossing the street. Whether that's because cars are real or not isn't the substantial bit.
I do get it, but I'm content to utilize perception and speak of how things seem without conjuring doubt... most of the time. I do like the idea of relationship being more fundamental that objects but don't see these perspectives as inherently in conflict but rather different orders of perception.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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