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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Rahz] * 2
    #28622603 - 01/15/24 07:38 PM (12 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I've got a friend who has an electric scooter that goes 55.



tell him I said to wear a helmet and a full set of motorcycle padding.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: lostintimenspc] * 2
    #28622993 - 01/16/24 06:32 AM (12 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
Quote:

Freedom said:
Quote:

lostintimenspc said:
There is something with a feature, that of 'broadening' - most seem to refer to it as the world or reality. I would say the fact that it broadens, that this is evidence for something existing as reality.





can you say a little more about that?




If there is a world or reality, broadening is not sufficient to prove reality, but it would be necessary, if reality existed.

:smile:

The fact there are ripples (broadening) in a pond (phenomena/perception) necessitate a surface, say.

When my mind expands on mushrooms or LSD, or even day to day with mood fluctuations, I notice I'm not just seeing more of the same, or processing more, that in fact something is being peered into. It is not a clearer image, not a more complex one from an overworked brain, but instead I am peering.




the idea of broadening as a verification of reality is interesting and intuitive, in the sense that real spaces can be explored and the path in remains usually as a safe path out from any explorations in reality.

but broadening, branching out, and ramifying is a property of perception during hallucination such as when an image of a goddess seems to become more and more compellingly beautiful as you stare at her, and light begins to radiate from her skin, etc. jewels and sparkles etc. are all products of ramified perception on drugs or emotional or trance states.

so in terms of broadening, or ramifying, I think that if you stay with the freshest sensory input every 1/3 of a second or less, then you are not tripping out on branches into hallucination.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 37,530
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Nillion] * 2
    #28623053 - 01/16/24 07:42 AM (12 days, 5 hours ago)



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OfflineFreedom
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Registered: 05/26/05
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 2
    #28623188 - 01/16/24 09:37 AM (12 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
 


what prompted the question...in the first place? hhmm?





I think it started way back when

when parents and then teachers, other adults started explaining reality.

It never made sense. It never fit. The belief systems all seem to depend on a first, imaginary step. God. Big bang. Fill in the blank.

And then along with that, the belief systems keep playing hopscotch. Jumping over the known with imaginations, and believing in them.

I watched my peers take on imaginary roles and self concepts. I tried to believe in god or the big bang or being a 'man'. The realness of it ever stuck.

Then I watched and these belief systems were all in conflict. Apparently trapped in arrogant self righteousness, forced into conflict...

Still today. I see people who seem to hardly keep their own lives together think they have the best solution for economic policy or what Israel should do or what other people should do or....

and trying to understand, why is it I could never believe in belief? How is it that others seem to? Do they really? And this belief in an external reality seems to be a core component of that, part of a seed view that grows into belief systems that oppose each other.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:

(phases/spectrum more so than 'lvls', btw - just in case u do read into that)

wrt the sphere of infinitude of consciousness & ditto but for space are generally where I began and started and ended - and it never left the present moment.  Still, those are fabricated, in manner of speaking, so to most they wouldn't classify as 'reality' fyi, not for me anyways,  but they are neat, in terms of the perspective that they bring about, which can then be utilized when contemplating other things.  comprendo?






I don't know. It seems like there is a 'pure' infinity but I don't know how that can be known, as that pure version isn't accessible to thought or knowing. It may be unfabricated for a moment, but then that unfabrication has to become fabricated to remember or to be known.

Also it seems like everything is always the unbounded mind, that this experience of being in a room and a body typing on a computer is happening within the infinite. but this infinite is simply the lack of edges, and an absence is not a thing..



Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
what persists before a big bang?






this question, 36 years ago, seems to be what freed me from having to believe anything


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #28622383 - 01/15/24 04:40 PM (12 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
To me the idea of reality is the idea that there is something out there that is creating my sense impressions. Its other than my senses and thoughts. So the experience of light is a sensation, and the idea of a photon is a thought, and both these things may point to something outside my experience that may or may not exist.

I don't see any reason to believe that it does or doesn't exist, and leave it as an open question.

Most people seem to believe that there is in fact a reality out there. I don't think this view can be confirmed, as I never experience anything other than my thoughts and sensations, so have no data to confirm anything outside this. Even scientific data appears as sensations and thoughts.

I also don't see any benefit or practical reason for believing that reality does or doesn't exist.




That sounds to me like a kind of view that's like a epistemology bubble where no ontology is palatable. Kind of like conpartmentalising ontology.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28622741 - 01/15/24 09:15 PM (12 days, 16 hours ago)

There is something with a feature, that of 'broadening' - most seem to refer to it as the world or reality. I would say the fact that it broadens, that this is evidence for something existing as reality.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 37,530
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Nillion] * 1
    #28622994 - 01/16/24 06:34 AM (12 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Nillion said:
Isn't the origin of the idea that reality doesn't exist actually mental illness?

There are people who have severe deficits in terms of the perception of reality. They often require heavy medication.



in a traditional way, yes, but these days we have to allow that in fact each of us has their own reality but together we share life and resources and we serve eachother as well.


--------------------
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InvisibleNillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28623002 - 01/16/24 06:38 AM (12 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
in a traditional way, yes, but these days we have to allow that in fact each of us has their own reality but together we share life and resources and we serve eachother as well.




I'm fond of the saying that there is a separate sky for each of us.


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InvisibleNillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #28623443 - 01/16/24 12:35 PM (12 days, 1 hour ago)

I must be open to the possibility that I am confused and am mistaken about all of this.

It may be the case that I am not intelligent enough to see your point and that my point is too flawed to make sense to others.

I know that accusation has been made repeatedly here at the forum, that I am too stupid to understand basic things. It is not impossible for that to be true.

Given that, and that I have already espoused my position and the ontological context it arises in, I think it best to concede that I am out of my depth here and you may be right and I am wrong, and then I can withdraw from the conversation.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28624422 - 01/17/24 10:16 AM (11 days, 3 hours ago)

stars fading but we linger on dear


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #28624800 - 01/17/24 04:24 PM (10 days, 21 hours ago)

I think where we land depends on if we think answers stifle curiosity or open gateways to further exploration.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: sudly] * 1
    #28626564 - 01/18/24 10:26 PM (9 days, 15 hours ago)

Sltn:fxn.  If the shoe fits?  Take a hike. :cheers:

  As for Need?  I think my body is naturally about to melt and mind meld with that of the goddess (version) of sleep.  :thumbup:

Lastly...

I
Need
You
All
To
Keep
On
Only
Being
Truly
You.

G'nit.
:heart:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: skOsH] * 1
    #28628546 - 01/20/24 12:52 PM (8 days, 43 minutes ago)

I have no way of imagining the meaning of ultimate reality.
do you mean the last reality we experience, or the reality that eventually everyone agrees about?

ultimate just doesn't make sense on anything so widely scoped.


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OfflineFreedom
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What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing?
    #28622034 - 01/15/24 10:53 AM (13 days, 2 hours ago)

To me the idea of reality is the idea that there is something out there that is creating my sense impressions. Its other than my senses and thoughts. So the experience of light is a sensation, and the idea of a photon is a thought, and both these things may point to something outside my experience that may or may not exist.

I don't see any reason to believe that it does or doesn't exist, and leave it as an open question.

Most people seem to believe that there is in fact a reality out there. I don't think this view can be confirmed, as I never experience anything other than my thoughts and sensations, so have no data to confirm anything outside this. Even scientific data appears as sensations and thoughts.

I also don't see any benefit or practical reason for believing that reality does or doesn't exist.


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InvisibleRahz
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Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28622045 - 01/15/24 11:08 AM (13 days, 2 hours ago)

The alternative is solipsism? Are there other choices?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleNillion
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Loc: Terra Firma
Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Freedom]
    #28622054 - 01/15/24 11:19 AM (13 days, 2 hours ago)

Reality is the experience in which things like observation, measurement, laws of physics, the operation of technology etc are all consistent.

If you cannot change the measurement of how tall you are by forming the opinion that you are not tall, or by having the opinion that you are, then you are really that tall.

There is nothing subjective about reality in terms of the viewer,  only the experience is subjective, not what is experienced. This is because the subjective aspect of sensory experience is also consistent, it is objectively real or true.

If the subjective nature of perception was definitive it would be self subjective, ergo inconsistent. The idea that perception is subjective is objectively true, this proves that there is objective reality that we experience. Reality is not subjective, no matter what you think about how tall you are, that doesn't change how tall you are. Your subjective experience of tallness doesn't change anything real when it all comes down to it.


Anyone could measure how tall I am and they would all get the same measurement because human beings do not affect reality with their opinions.

We do not determine what reality is.
It isn't a matter of subjective opinion.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Nillion]
    #28622075 - 01/15/24 11:41 AM (13 days, 1 hour ago)

even the question of reality pinging around in my brain, as well as my brain and my own existence each moment in space is reality, everything happening is reality, and everything that has already happened is history, in most ways, inaccessible, except for memory and physical mementos/souvenirs.


--------------------
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InvisibleRahz
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Nillion]
    #28622078 - 01/15/24 11:45 AM (13 days, 1 hour ago)

I like that. But who's to say a dream must be wholly subjective? It could indicate that there's more to it than a conscious dreamer which adds unknowns and complexity to the idea of solipsism.

That's why solipsism has more than one connotation. I tend to reject the ones that involve me being real but you not being real. But even if that were true, what difference does it make?

Disbelief in objectivity doesn't make objectivity less reliable.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Rahz]
    #28622133 - 01/15/24 12:36 PM (13 days, 59 minutes ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
The alternative is solipsism? Are there other choices?




Wouldn't solipsism be the belief that reality doesn't exist?

Why would you choose either? I'm saying that not only do we not have to choose, there may be no useful reason to choose.


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: What does 'reality' mean to you, and what is the benefit in believing in such a thing? [Re: Nillion]
    #28622140 - 01/15/24 12:46 PM (13 days, 49 minutes ago)

Quote:

Nillion said:
Reality is the experience in which things like observation, measurement, laws of physics, the operation of technology etc are all consistent.

If you cannot change the measurement of how tall you are by forming the opinion that you are not tall, or by having the opinion that you are, then you are really that tall.

There is nothing subjective about reality in terms of the viewer,  only the experience is subjective, not what is experienced. This is because the subjective aspect of sensory experience is also consistent, it is objectively real or true.

If the subjective nature of perception was definitive it would be self subjective, ergo inconsistent. The idea that perception is subjective is objectively true, this proves that there is objective reality that we experience. Reality is not subjective, no matter what you think about how tall you are, that doesn't change how tall you are. Your subjective experience of tallness doesn't change anything real when it all comes down to it.


Anyone could measure how tall I am and they would all get the same measurement because human beings do not affect reality with their opinions.

We do not determine what reality is.
It isn't a matter of subjective opinion.




I can get on board with internal consistence of models of reality, but weather those models have an actual referent or not, I would need more proof than the consistency.


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