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theLoser
Stranger


Registered: 01/13/24
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Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time
#28619570 - 01/13/24 10:18 AM (14 days, 21 hours ago) |
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Hey guys, I'm a loser with no friends and absolutely no one to show me how to do this. I'm turning to an online mushroom based message board for help. If anyone experienced can give me the time of day it would be much appreciated. I see that there's already a great deal of information here and some of it has been incredibly helpful but it's such a vast subject and some of my queries are quite niche so I thought 'why not' and made an account.
Firstly I have to start by apologizing as I went and bought the 4lb inject and forget bag which I have now since been informed is basically pointless as you're better off mixing up your own substrate "which is made of a blend of coco coir, vermiculite and gypsum, pasteurized or sterilized and hydrated to the correct level." Never mind, live and learn, I will continue with my chosen method as it's my first attempt and I can't be bothered to go through the hassle of returning products.
Supposedly the bag chosen by my clever self has an oxygen releasing substrate and as a complete noob with no prior knowledge what so ever in any way, I thought that would be a brilliant idea. The less involved I have to be in this process, the less that can go wrong. This is the bag by the way: https://shinyspores.co.uk/shop/grow-kits/mushroom-grow-bags/
I also bought spores: https://shinyspores.co.uk/shop/spore-syringe/golden-teacher-spores/
Golden Teachers, as they were a species I had heard the name of previously and quite honestly they were the only ones that rung a bell whilst I searched for some to try. I bought 20ml as instructed by the inject and forget instructions. I also have now recently learned, thanks to the previous posts on this forum, that using spores is basically for novices and everyone tends to use Liquid Culture, petri dishes and what not.
Finally, I have bought a heating mat and plan on incubating my bag as it colonizes. I understand that this too is frowned upon due to increasing the possibility of mould or any other bacterial nasties. It is winter however and the instructions do suggest heating the colonization process at around 27,28 Celsius, so I assume I should just follow the instructions properly for best results.
I have read through a lot of the posts in this forum, watched a hand full of videos and I think I'm starting to feel more confident slowly but I still have some questions for anyone brave enough to answer theLoser:
Firstly, Under what circumstances do you think I should incubate, do you think I should put it in a box with a small airflow allowance or do you think I should just place it upon the heat mat; do you think lighting matters at all whilst colonizing? Should I make a box out of wood?
Secondly, Do you think it would be possible to make my own monotub in the time it takes for my cake to colonize and is it worth trying to transfer it from the bag into said tub for a greater yield. Obviously, adding more substrate to the tub would be a given, I assume; could be wrong. And if so, should I try to replicate the substrate that is already within the bag upon purchase? Or should I make a different type, perhaps coco coir, vermiculite and gypsum. Would it effect the grow in any way?
I'm looking for someone serious about helping me to actually take me under their wing, I will be posting photo's and updates throughout the entire process and probably asking a lot of questions along the way too (and then also posting trip results 
Thank you reading and thank you for taking time out of your day to help theLoser.
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phenyl
Stupid person



Registered: 09/03/22
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser] 2
#28619576 - 01/13/24 10:25 AM (14 days, 21 hours ago) |
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you seem like you need mental health support rather than experimenting with powerful hallucinogens but basically ignore everything you've read so far and look for Ziran's PF tek guide and follow it more or less to the letter if you want a successful grow.
-------------------- The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.
Edited by phenyl (01/13/24 10:25 AM)
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theLoser
Stranger


Registered: 01/13/24
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:tongue: [Re: phenyl]
#28619582 - 01/13/24 10:29 AM (14 days, 21 hours ago) |
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Thank you for the best advice I've recieved so far.
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Silentraindrops
mushlove student

Registered: 12/23/23
Posts: 222
Loc: pnw
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: phenyl] 2
#28619587 - 01/13/24 10:35 AM (14 days, 21 hours ago) |
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Quote:
phenyl said: you seem like you need mental health support rather than experimenting with powerful hallucinogens but basically ignore everything you've read so far and look for Ziran's PF tek guide and follow it more or less to the letter if you want a successful grow.
A bit harsh, First on the subject of mental health and support , OP you are not alone my friend trust. On the subject of mushrooms, You can use the kit like described, I just would not use all 20ml like suggested. I would use maybe 2-3cc/ml total of a spore syringe on the bag. You can break and shake After colonization. Chances of failure are likely so look up the hitchhickers guide. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28501530ย ; focus on the recommend pf tek or grain and agar but read the guides. Agar is the key to successfully getting clean spawn if you go for grain. You can make a tub setup with any nearby "walmart/bargin" store tubs.... you do not have to modify a shoebox 6-12qt* ish if you don't want. You can use a MSS , lc is becoming more and more common it's just easier. Making a agar *petri dish or ketchup cup pp5* test plate with your mss just insures clean spawn... You should take it easy and not fret and try to read / research as much as possible and stick with the most basic thing you can do. The bag + mss while you work on agar is fine, it will probably contam it's not recommend and I would only use a bit of the syringe and just mix it once you see colonization. OR save the bag for after you can make some agar...
Either way you need to take a second to pat yourself on a back for at least coming to the right place . You are a smart person.
Edited by Silentraindrops (01/13/24 10:47 AM)
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stroopwafelman


Registered: 03/21/23
Posts: 375
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser] 2
#28619607 - 01/13/24 10:55 AM (14 days, 20 hours ago) |
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Quote:
theLoser said: I bought 20ml as instructed by the inject and forget instructions
I suspect this is just a marketing ploy to make you purchase the more expensive product (20ml instead of the 10ml syringe).
Quote:
theLoser said: using spores is basically for novices and everyone tends to use Liquid Culture, petri dishes and what not.
Spores are where it all starts but if you want good results you want to at least learn agar work. Liquid Cultures are more advanced topic and are also contamination prone unless high level of sterility if observed. If you want to stick with spores though it's also an option - check PF Tek.
Quote:
theLoser said: Finally, I have bought a heating mat and plan on incubating my bag as it colonizes. I understand that this too is frowned upon due to increasing the possibility of mould or any other bacterial nasties. It is winter however and the instructions do suggest heating the colonization process at around 27,28 Celsius, so I assume I should just follow the instructions properly for best results.
As long as your room is about 19-23C that's plenty good for the mycelium to colonize. In fact it's probably better considering you're going spores to grain as the bacteria which might very well be in the syringe along with the spores will be much slower at these temps. At 27-28 the bacteria are much much faster. The heating pad if placed in contact with the bag can also cause damage to the mycelium as well as dry out the contents.
Quote:
theLoser said: Firstly, Under what circumstances do you think I should incubate, do you think I should put it in a box with a small airflow allowance or do you think I should just place it upon the heat mat; do you think lighting matters at all whilst colonizing? Should I make a box out of wood?
Probably best at room temp as per my point above, on a shelf somewhere with some very mild airflow. You don't specifically need light while it's still colonizing but it won't hurt as long as it's indirect.
Quote:
theLoser said: Secondly, Do you think it would be possible to make my own monotub in the time it takes for my cake to colonize and is it worth trying to transfer it from the bag into said tub for a greater yield. Obviously, adding more substrate to the tub would be a given
Probably best to leave it as is. Transferring it to a monotub will involve breaking up the whole thing and mixing it with more substrate, diluting it more and if any contam were present in the bag exacerbating the problem further. Best to let it fruit, collect the fruits, put some samples on agar or make prints and then make your own grain spawn and move from there.
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theLoser
Stranger


Registered: 01/13/24
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Last seen: 2 days, 18 hours
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: stroopwafelman] 1
#28619614 - 01/13/24 10:59 AM (14 days, 20 hours ago) |
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Thank you for your response, I have read the hitchhikers guide and found it relatively useful, I've also read Zaran's PF Tek guide but I dont own a pressure cooker (currently).
Silentraindrops, you're saying that I shouldn't use all 20ml straight away just in case it doesn't begin colonization and that I should wait for it to show signs of colonization before I go balls deep and shoot my load in? Understandable, it's ยฃ15 worth of spores.
I'm about to research agar because to be honest I have no idea what it is, but thanks a lot for pointing me in the right direction. You're a smart person too.
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theLoser
Stranger


Registered: 01/13/24
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: stroopwafelman]
#28619622 - 01/13/24 11:02 AM (14 days, 20 hours ago) |
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Thankyou wafelman this is some class advice, so you think I should completely do away with the heat mat and just let it sit in my room? It's currently 2 Celsius where I am outside temperature and I don't keep the radiators on at night and mid day.
If I was to use it, would a safer method be to place the bag on a grill tray above the heat mat?
Also, I have a dehumidifier in my house to stop mould, will this interfere with the bag if it's just on the shelf and not in some type of enclosed incubation?
Thanks again.
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stroopwafelman


Registered: 03/21/23
Posts: 375
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser]
#28619624 - 01/13/24 11:05 AM (14 days, 20 hours ago) |
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PF Tek can be done without a pressure cooker, hence why it's noob-friendly. Haven't personally tried it without one but read through Ziran's guide again, it lists steaming as one of the sterilization methods. Will take longer than with a PC though but it's an option if you don't have one. For everything else you will need a PC however, that includes grain, agar, LC.
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stroopwafelman


Registered: 03/21/23
Posts: 375
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser]
#28619627 - 01/13/24 11:10 AM (14 days, 20 hours ago) |
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Quote:
theLoser said: so you think I should completely do away with the heat mat and just let it sit in my room? It's currently 2 Celsius where I am outside temperature and I don't keep the radiators on at night and mid day.
If I was to use it, would a safer method be to place the bag on a grill tray above the heat mat?
Also, I have a dehumidifier in my house to stop mould, will this interfere with the bag if it's just on the shelf and not in some type of enclosed incubation?
Depends on what your room temps are at night, as long as it falls within the range I mentioned above, even going to 17-18C is still fine but will slow things down to a crawl. You could probably go even lower as you can store LC and such in the fridge temperatures (not freezer) without causing damage but colonization rate at lower temps will practically halt and those temperatures are mostly used for culture storage. Can't honestly give advice on using a heating pad as I've never used one. Better use the search for that. As for the dehumidifier as long as it's not blowing dry air directly onto the bag and room humidity stays withing a "normal" range of 40-60 +/- a few % then it should be fine IMO, I use one myself.
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Silentraindrops
mushlove student

Registered: 12/23/23
Posts: 222
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 7 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: stroopwafelman]
#28619635 - 01/13/24 11:16 AM (14 days, 20 hours ago) |
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No you don't need anywhere near 20ml of spore syringe to get colonization. You only need a couple spores to meet inside to start colonization. You want to only use 1-3 cc/ml at most of the syringe, Chances are high you will get germination. *DO NOT SHAKE bag after inoculation*
Shake syringe before use.
If you use 20 ml/cc of the syringe there is a large chance you get more than spores.... contam chances go up greatly .... in my opinion.
save what's left for later use. on shelf or in fridge. it will last quite a long time. You can save for all future projects probably. *agar only takes 1 drop give or take* (squeeze sides of plastic syringes for drops vs plunger)
Edited by Silentraindrops (01/13/24 11:18 AM)
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meta_mmxxii

Registered: 08/03/23
Posts: 598
Loc: PNW
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: Silentraindrops]
#28619685 - 01/13/24 11:50 AM (14 days, 19 hours ago) |
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Get rid of the Heating mat completely, you need to heat the room not the sub. All the heating mat will do is promote contamination. The substrate actually creates heat inside. Temperature range of 68F to 73F is the optimal range for cultivating Cubensis, and many other varieties. Agar is a very important tool for cult, it has many uses and is the key to getting good cultures to work with. It allows you to see any contamination and allows for you to get it clean for production. If you are nervous of making your own, or don't have a PC to make it, you can purchase premade agar plates online. You have come to the premiere place for the art of cultivating mushrooms. One thing that will help you also as you ask for help from others is post a lot of pics of what you are trying to explain. Welcome to the Shroomery, and welcome to cult!
-------------------- Lots of up-to-date Teks: Trusted Cultivators Teks The most comprehensive explanation of things I have read on the forums: Ultimate Tek Compendium Another very good read for new members: The Hitchhikers Guide ๐
๐ด ๐ฐ ๐ผ ๐ฒ ๐ป ๐ธ ๐ฝ ๐ถ ๐
๐
๐ฐ ๐ฟ
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theLoser
Stranger


Registered: 01/13/24
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: stroopwafelman]
#28619770 - 01/13/24 01:19 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Thank you Wafelman, I did see that the first time I read through it but I wasn't quite sure if I needed to do BOTH sterilization and then use the pressure cooker or wether they was interchangable, but now that I know it could be worth giving it a try from scratch and posting pictures as I go along. It's currently -1 and my radiators are switching off for the night, so as we go into winter, late night room temperature will be around 12-16 degrees by my estimation, this house does get chilly!
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theLoser
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser]
#28619774 - 01/13/24 01:23 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Thanks Silentraindrops, the instructions for the bag I purchased (4lb's of substrate, xxl bag) Has suggested to use the whole 20ml mss and then spend 5 minutes mixing it into the substrate, is this just stupid and wasteful? I guess I would be saving a lot of money in the future if I svoured it. I won't ever be buying the inject and forget bag again after all this feedback 
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Rukus
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser] 1
#28619779 - 01/13/24 01:28 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Hey, don't be so hard on yourself.
You are in the best place to learn, and among friends.
All the info you need is here, just read the stickies and use the search feature and you will succeed.
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theLoser
Stranger


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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: Rukus]
#28619785 - 01/13/24 01:31 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Thanks Rukus, Pray for me. As I said in the op, I will document my future journey and discuss all of my noob findings that I'm sure everyone else already knows 
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The Tao
Look at the flowers.


Registered: 09/12/19
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser] 1
#28619788 - 01/13/24 01:34 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago) |
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You keep trying then this place keeps helping.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,042
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser] 3
#28619796 - 01/13/24 01:38 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago) |
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The fact that you're on this site makes you a winner.
We're all misfits here in one way or another. I worry that your attitude of calling yourself a loser could negatively affect your psychedelic experience.
Don't be so hard on yourself.
Just FYI, there is a difference between spawn and substrate. While anything the mushrooms grow on can technically be called a substrate, we use the term "spawn" to refer to the initial grains we inoculate with spores or culture. Once fully colonized the grains are broken up and mixed ("spawned") into a "bulk substrate" (most commonly hydrated coco coir on this board) and the mycelium will spread from the mixed in grains to colonize that.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh wouldโve sold more than one painting if heโd put tigers in them.โBill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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Rukus
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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: theLoser]
#28619799 - 01/13/24 01:40 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago) |
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I'm a noob too and tripped twice the past month off my home grown shrooms, rewarding as fuck. Can't wait till you get the same!
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theLoser
Stranger


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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: The Tao]
#28619819 - 01/13/24 01:51 PM (14 days, 17 hours ago) |
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Thank you Mr Tao for the sturdy advice, Denial and error has always worked a treat for me in the past
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theLoser
Stranger


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Re: Loser needs help growing mushrooms for the first time [Re: elasticaltiger]
#28619821 - 01/13/24 01:53 PM (14 days, 17 hours ago) |
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We're all winners here, I'm just a mushroom loser because I don't know red from blue and I've got no one to help me haha. I've done acid a few times and had some pretty bad experiences but all the times I've done shrooms were great, they're just hard to get where I live.
Thanks for the advice as well, all the terminology is a bit overwhelming but we'll get there eventually! 
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