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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: nickchinn]
#28616009 - 01/10/24 06:26 AM (17 days, 20 hours ago) |
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Some modern lab equipment will come with these installed to sanitize the work surface. The usage protocol is to turn the light on for 15 minutes before and after work but not to work with it on. UV light can be damaging to your eyes as well as your DNA.
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Edited by Pscientist (01/10/24 02:14 PM)
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KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: RoscoeReturns]
#28616368 - 01/10/24 12:43 PM (17 days, 14 hours ago) |
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Quote:
RoscoeReturns said: No no no, please no. Stop with the UV lights. Everything that needs to be sterile goes through the PC. UV light damages skin, retinas, almost all plastic and rubber. In addition, it will not work anywhere there is a shadow, so any stuff in your closet or dirt or really anything that will block the light renders this whole thing useless. You are drastically raising your risk level for absolutely no benefit.
Also stop dousing yourself with iso. Not necessary.
Lab equipment companies still sell UV in their hoods as a way to make money. Most labs I worked in stopped using UV years ago because of the dangers of UV coupled with the ineffectiveness in actual use conditions.
There is a difference between sterilization and disinfection of a surface! They are not interchangeable.
Sterilization of equipment (where appropriate and possible) is good, sterilization in combination with a disinfected/decontmainated surface is better.
I never claimed UV can replace sterilization, but it helps create a cleaner work environment.
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Edited by Pscientist (01/10/24 01:09 PM)
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28624766 - 01/17/24 04:01 PM (10 days, 11 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C lamps are not permitted on cabinets at the NIH because the risk outweighs the benefit, If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for you.
In your claim you mention the risks of UV but then go on to say.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C is subject to the inverse-square law, cannot penetrate glass, plastic, or liquids which makes UV quite pointless for mush cult.
When used properly UV light really isn't that unsafe, with an emphasis on properly. Does UV work to help sanitize a surface? Yes. Is it necessary for the work people do on this website? No. Are shoes necessary to walk outside? No.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Even if UV-C were 100% effective, the moment the light is switched off in a normal open air environment, any benefit gained on the swings is lost on the roundabouts.
I agree with parts of this statement, but when you shut the light off the entire surface doesn't immediately become as contaminated as when you started (necessarily). Contaminants will fall randomly onto the surface over time. So the benefit is not all lost immediately, it is lost gradually over time (with regards to the surface sanitization). The light doesn't have to be used in an open air environment as you described though.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C provides a false sense of security, much like using antibacterial agar but without gruesome DNA mutations.
This is an unrelated point, but are you claiming antibacterial agar doesn't impede the growth of bacterial species that are sensitive to the antibiotic being used? I have to disagree with that.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C has very few, if any uses for home cultivation purposes, unless you're attempting some advanced mutagenesis type shenanigans.
This is probably true for the most part, but the OP was asking about the use of UV for sanitization purposes.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C absolutely does not outperform isopropyl for sanitizing your work surfaces, ISO conveniently comes with zero risk. You cannot sanitize the atmosphere, so stop trying.
Iso is flammable and must be purchased regularly, so there are risks and greater requirements for resupply. In an ideal world you should use both for maximum sanitization.
Also just to be a further contrarian, you can technically sanitize and even sterilize the atmosphere in small spaces like labs, this is how labs are decontaminated in cases of serious biological release. It can be done with formaldehyde gas, but before you even say it, of course it has no place in this line of work.
I agree with everything below.
Quote:
Ultraviolet radiation is a form of non-ionizing radiation, and biological effects from it vary with wavelength, photon energy, and duration of exposure. The 100-280 nm wavelength band is designated as UV-C, which is used for germicidal purposes.
The sterilization/decontamination activity of UV lights is limited by a number of factors, including:
Penetration – In the dynamic air streams of BSCs, microorganisms beneath dust particles, plastics, and work surfaces are not affected by the UV light because it cannot penetrate particles so far from the UV source.
Relative humidity – The germicidal effects of UV light drop off precipitously when relative humidity is above 70%.
Temperature and air movement – The optimum temperature for the UV lamp to be effective is 77-80 degrees F. Temperatures below this range result in reduced efficacy, and air movement can exacerbate this.
Cleanliness – Dust and dirt block the germicidal effectiveness of the UV lamp, so weekly cleanings are necessary.
Age – Check UV lamps every six months to assure proper function, as the amount of germicidal wavelength emitted decreases with bulb age and hours of use.
Overuse – UV lights are routinely left on overnight or longer in an effort to decontaminate workspaces, but this practice can result in the germicidal wavelength no longer being produced by the bulb.
For these reasons and other concerns, the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) does not recommend the use of UV lights
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KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: HelloImBob]
#28624798 - 01/17/24 04:24 PM (10 days, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
HelloImBob said: It's like playing with fire, there is a higher chance something bad is going to happen than it being helpful.
Some may say that about a lot of things in this hobby, it all depends on perspective. It doesn't change facts.
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: HelloImBob]
#28624822 - 01/17/24 04:37 PM (10 days, 10 hours ago) |
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I don't think the OP was asking for the simplest way to grow mushrooms, I recall something about the uses of UV for sanitization.
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28624832 - 01/17/24 04:42 PM (10 days, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Sanitizing with soap, iso, or some other agent, is far more efficient/practical than UV. Noobs are constantly trying to reinvent the wheel by complicating things.
Still air? Too simple, what about a shmuvbox 🤔
Sanitation? Why use boring old sanitizing agents when we can harness the power of the electromagnetic spectrum🤔
Monotub? You mean automated air exchangers controlled by PID, hygrometer, and co2 sensors🤔
But, what if I used all of these 🤔 I bet I'm the first to consider the massive implications for exponential gainz.

Or perhaps My fingers just have frostbite from hanging out too long at the summet of mount stupid.

Who hurt you?
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: stubb]
#28625831 - 01/18/24 11:40 AM (9 days, 15 hours ago) |
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Quote:
stubb said:
Quote:
Pscientist said:
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C lamps are not permitted on cabinets at the NIH because the risk outweighs the benefit, If it's not good enough for them, it's not good enough for you.
In your claim you mention the risks of UV but then go on to say.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C is subject to the inverse-square law, cannot penetrate glass, plastic, or liquids which makes UV quite pointless for mush cult.
When used properly UV light really isn't that unsafe, with an emphasis on properly. Does UV work to help sanitize a surface? Yes. Is it necessary for the work people do on this website? No. Are shoes necessary to walk outside? No.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: Even if UV-C were 100% effective, the moment the light is switched off in a normal open air environment, any benefit gained on the swings is lost on the roundabouts.
I agree with parts of this statement, but when you shut the light off the entire surface doesn't immediately become as contaminated as when you started (necessarily). Contaminants will fall randomly onto the surface over time. So the benefit is not all lost immediately, it is lost gradually over time (with regards to the surface sanitization). The light doesn't have to be used in an open air environment as you described though.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C provides a false sense of security, much like using antibacterial agar but without gruesome DNA mutations.
This is an unrelated point, but are you claiming antibacterial agar doesn't impede the growth of bacterial species that are sensitive to the antibiotic being used? I have to disagree with that.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C has very few, if any uses for home cultivation purposes, unless you're attempting some advanced mutagenesis type shenanigans.
This is probably true for the most part, but the OP was asking about the use of UV for sanitization purposes.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: UV-C absolutely does not outperform isopropyl for sanitizing your work surfaces, ISO conveniently comes with zero risk. You cannot sanitize the atmosphere, so stop trying.
Iso is flammable and must be purchased regularly, so there are risks and greater requirements for resupply. In an ideal world you should use both for maximum sanitization.
Also just to be a further contrarian, you can technically sanitize and even sterilize the atmosphere in small spaces like labs, this is how labs are decontaminated in cases of serious biological release. It can be done with formaldehyde gas, but before you even say it, of course it has no place in this line of work.
I agree with everything below.
Quote:
Ultraviolet radiation is a form of non-ionizing radiation, and biological effects from it vary with wavelength, photon energy, and duration of exposure. The 100-280 nm wavelength band is designated as UV-C, which is used for germicidal purposes.
The sterilization/decontamination activity of UV lights is limited by a number of factors, including:
Penetration – In the dynamic air streams of BSCs, microorganisms beneath dust particles, plastics, and work surfaces are not affected by the UV light because it cannot penetrate particles so far from the UV source.
Relative humidity – The germicidal effects of UV light drop off precipitously when relative humidity is above 70%.
Temperature and air movement – The optimum temperature for the UV lamp to be effective is 77-80 degrees F. Temperatures below this range result in reduced efficacy, and air movement can exacerbate this.
Cleanliness – Dust and dirt block the germicidal effectiveness of the UV lamp, so weekly cleanings are necessary.
Age – Check UV lamps every six months to assure proper function, as the amount of germicidal wavelength emitted decreases with bulb age and hours of use.
Overuse – UV lights are routinely left on overnight or longer in an effort to decontaminate workspaces, but this practice can result in the germicidal wavelength no longer being produced by the bulb.
For these reasons and other concerns, the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) does not recommend the use of UV lights

 Is this an endorsement? What's supposed to be the takeaway from all that?
Yes, it is. Glad you were able to decipher that .
UV + iso > iso alone (for sanitizing a surface).
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KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: HelloImBob]
#28626119 - 01/18/24 04:18 PM (9 days, 11 hours ago) |
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It seems a few here are suggesting we shouldn't discuss something because it could be dangerous when not used in a safe and informed way?
That's a very enlightened perspective. I wonder if that concept has ever failed culturally in the past?
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KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: HelloImBob]
#28626282 - 01/18/24 05:55 PM (9 days, 9 hours ago) |
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There are many possible solutions.
You could purchase a grow tent (6 ft x 4 ft 6ft) for your work and place the uv lamp above your work surface (small desk in tent). You can iso the surface before, shut the tent and turn on the light with the tent closed for 10 minutes and then shut the light off (all from the outside of the tent using the UV lamp cable).
Then go in and iso the surface again if you want (or don't I don't care what anyone does here).
Or you could mount one in a SAB (with an external power cable), UV doesn't really pass through plastic as some naysayers have already pointed out.
Instead of being sure something can't work people should open their minds a bit and think of ways it could.
I want to be clear, I think most of the work people do here can be done in open air, but if we are talking optimal setups there is no need to be close-minded.
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Edited by Pscientist (01/18/24 05:56 PM)
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Pscientist
KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: HelloImBob]
#28626303 - 01/18/24 06:10 PM (9 days, 9 hours ago) |
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Quote:
HelloImBob said: Lol close minded have you ever used one?
They destroy plastic and tent materials they destroy everything but glass and even oxidize metals horribly except maybe stainless steel.
I have used them in the past and they scare me with how destructive they can be. Silicone is meant to last 50 years in the sun outside. Didn't last 6 months in a gallon jar sealing some uv-c lights around the lid for a fish tank parasite killer.
Do you have any experience with them?
I do
They destroy everything and are dangerous.
I'm smart enough to know that I'm not smart enough to use uv-c for mushrooms if there is a use at all.
Wtf happened to common sense?
Ok Bob, stay scared
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KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: HelloImBob]
#28626320 - 01/18/24 06:21 PM (9 days, 9 hours ago) |
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UV does make plastic brittle with prolonged exposure.
If you turned a UV light on in a tent for 10 minutes twice a month it would do very little damage and still last quite a long time.
Keep trying though bob
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KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: Pscientist]
#28626356 - 01/18/24 06:40 PM (9 days, 8 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Pscientist said: Ok Bob, stay scared 
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KushKaptain




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Re: Anyone use UV-C for sterilization? [Re: HelloImBob] 1
#28626483 - 01/18/24 08:57 PM (9 days, 6 hours ago) |
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Quote:
HelloImBob said: Overstating my case? DNA damage is known as what cancer?
Tell me how it's useful below the surface?
It works great in clear water or clean air.
By all means I'm done with this thread. I hope you all play with uv-c I don't give a shit anymore.
This has by far got to be the stupidest thread I've ever wasted my time on.
It's ok to be scared of UV bob, don't use it.
Other adults may choose to learn the dangers of UV and how to use it safely.
It doesn't change your life. At the same time, there is no reason to shoot down the discussion.
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