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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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What have you integrated from tripping? 1
#28615380 - 01/09/24 03:00 PM (18 days, 17 hours ago) |
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And what helped you integrate that?
There are so many people out there promoting integration, yet very few seem to be talking about specifics.
I'm curious what have you seen or learned from your trips, and what methods did you use to integrate those lessons?
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Turvenuija
Up shroom creek without a paddle

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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Freedom] 2
#28615492 - 01/09/24 04:54 PM (18 days, 15 hours ago) |
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I've asked myself this question too but I don't think I've ever fully understood what people mean by it. When I come down I simply forget, my trips become hidden memories that I can sometimes catch a glimpse of in certain states of mind such as when I'm falling asleep, immersing myself in music I've used to trip in the past and of course when I'm tripping again. My guess is integrating means that what you've learned and seen changes the very essence of who you are, which definitely has happened to me but it's not something I did selectively or by choice. I saw what I saw and at that moment it became my truth, there is no going back.
Maybe it's like... If you have a negative "core belief" about yourself it cascades downwards into action which causes you to treat your life and others badly. If a trip convinces you that the core belief isn't true, the entire driving mechanism behind what you think and do changes and that way guides your life to a better direction. For this reason, psychedelics might be best left into the realm of professional therapy after all. At the very least after all this time I truly understand why people advise caution with these substances. Change for the better isn't guaranteed, only change is. Still, if I look back to my discovery of mushrooms as a crossroads in time, I think I would choose this road every time. It's magic.
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Kiwi89
Stranger
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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Turvenuija]
#28615606 - 01/09/24 06:21 PM (18 days, 14 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Turvenuija said: Change for the better isn't guaranteed.
Many people would struggle to teach themselves basic mathematics when sober, yet somehow believe that they can psychologically self diagnosis, or god forbid diagnosis others, because they have taken a psychedelic. It is possible the the real benefits for most users of psychedelics are physical in nature, which can lead to positive psychological outcomes.
Everyone should be aware of the suggestibility qualities of psychedelics, it is easy to attach meaning where there is none. This is seen in a long line of woo from the sixties to current day.
I have zero doubts that some people can have profound personal insight that can lead to life changing positive outcomes. The sober person has to enact change to make that happen though, the integration. In real life, I have not seen much of this in action and I grew up in a social circle that did not blink at drug use.
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Turvenuija
Up shroom creek without a paddle

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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Kiwi89]
#28615646 - 01/09/24 07:20 PM (18 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Kiwi89 said: The sober person has to enact change to make that happen though, the integration. In real life, I have not seen much of this in action
Oh definitely, I've tried and in the beginning I had lots of temporary success but it never lasts. I always slip back into my default state and I know I can be better. Just, at this point after going through this up and down loop so many times I've learned not to care anymore. Life is ups and downs so I just go along with it, finding my joy where I can get it. I can't tell whether that's healthy or not, maybe there is a better way still.
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Kiwi89] 5
#28615650 - 01/09/24 07:22 PM (18 days, 13 hours ago) |
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I don't think that the integration from tripping is a learning process, but more of a rebuilding process.
When we trip we lose so much. We lose rational thought, we lose our sense of self, our sense of reality and can sometimes rerender our usual connections with perceived spirituality.
To me reintegration is putting all of that back together. Reregistering our sense of self and the thought processes that create our default mode. A lot of the time false negative beliefs can get removed in this process, but other times not. It's a difficult process to put into words and even when you're going through the process it's difficult to explain really.
I've found that when I've done back to back trips over months long periods that the reintegration period had also taken months to complete. But it's not really something I could tell that was happening at the time, just with 20/20 hindsight.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Northerner]
#28615654 - 01/09/24 07:30 PM (18 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: I don't think that the integration from tripping is a learning process, but more of a rebuilding process.
When we trip we lose so much. We lose rational thought, we lose our sense of self, our sense of reality and can sometimes rerender our usual connections with perceived spirituality.
To me reintegration is putting all of that back together. Reregistering our sense of self and the thought processes that create our default mode. A lot of the time false negative beliefs can get removed in this process, but other times not. It's a difficult process to put into words and even when you're going through the process it's difficult to explain really.
I've found that when I've done back to back trips over months long periods that the reintegration period had also taken months to complete. But it's not really something I could tell that was happening at the time, just with 20/20 hindsight.
does this feel destabilizing for you at all, if so is there anything that helps you stay grounded?
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Freedom] 2
#28615660 - 01/09/24 07:36 PM (18 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Well initially it's destabilising, tripping can be pure madness. I don't push it anywhere near as hard as I used to either. I also take a lot of pleasure from the experience, so there's a crossover there.
In many ways I wish I could go deep without the payback of having to put it all back together, but in other ways I'm glad for the shakeup. It keeps me sane. Stops me becoming one of "them", those who choose to believe their illusions without doubt.
For me the only thing that really helps with integration is time. It's like a journeyman's course in self philosophy.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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Turvenuija
Up shroom creek without a paddle

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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Northerner]
#28615666 - 01/09/24 07:45 PM (18 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Do you believe your illusions while leaving room for doubt? Just like with general well being I go through phases of madness where I believe all sorts of metaphysical garbo I've experienced on trips and then choose not to. I can't make up my mind on that.
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Turvenuija] 3
#28615677 - 01/09/24 07:58 PM (18 days, 12 hours ago) |
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I try to treat all of my beliefs as illusions. It's a hard thing to do, but even harder to deal with self disappointment when I discover that beliefs I held as true were simply not, they were in fact illusions.
Separating belief and truth and illusion from each other is a great challenge for humans. We are such emotional and instinctual creatures.
I also once considered myself a spiritual person, but psychedelics have drummed that out of me. I really don't know anymore, I can see life and the universe the way it is interconnected, but I cannot tell why. It just is. I don't have to believe though, I can just look and see. Though whether I can trust my perceptions just further deepens the paradox.
Right now I'm integrating from an ass kicking of a trip recently. It's left me questioning myself again, who I am as a family member, who I am in my career, who I am as a Shroomery member too. I've done this enough times to know the process is happening, but it's not like I have control. It's doesn't feel like that at all.
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Turvenuija
Up shroom creek without a paddle

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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Northerner] 1
#28615696 - 01/09/24 08:19 PM (18 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Interesting to hear psychs can turn people away from spirituality as well. I used to be the edgy, materialist and atheist type as a teen but after shrooms all that went out the window, something I never thought possible. Now no explanation for life and the universe is more likely or outlandish than another, just things I have seen personally and thus instinctively believe more. All I have is a whole bunch of uncertainty and a nagging feeling that reality isn't what I think it is or what I've been told it is. The most horrifying possibility is that the universe is precisely what I was taught and I've been led astray by my own illusions. It's a lonely state of being because I can't confide in anyone IRL out of fear of abandonment or being seen as too weird, no one I know could even begin to understand what I'm babbling on about.
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Turvenuija]
#28615702 - 01/09/24 08:28 PM (18 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Pretty darn sure that whoever taught you what the universe is either made that shit up or was taught it by someone up the line who made it up. 
Not having tripping type friends irl can be hard hey, I've been through periods like that. Thank the universe, or just Ythan, for Shroomery to help get through that.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Freedom] 2
#28615709 - 01/09/24 08:41 PM (18 days, 11 hours ago) |
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@ OP:

*still processing*
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Turvenuija
Up shroom creek without a paddle

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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Northerner]
#28615763 - 01/09/24 09:43 PM (18 days, 10 hours ago) |
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I mean no specific person told me what the universe is, just the general science oriented thinking of the society I happened to be born into and raised with. So in essence you're right. That explanation feels far more incomplete or possibly wrong than it ever did.
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Kiwi89
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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Turvenuija]
#28615767 - 01/09/24 09:47 PM (18 days, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said: Separating belief and truth and illusion from each other is a great challenge for humans. We are such emotional and instinctual creatures.
I believe that this part of the reason that we can get a bit lost on psychedelics. Life can be challenging, blur the lines with a reality shattering substance and you can make things extremely confusing.
Quote:
Turvenuija said: All I have is a whole bunch of uncertainty and a nagging feeling that reality isn't what I think it is or what I've been told it is.
There is nothing wrong with these feelings. How do you think religions were created, this is why people believe in aliens and other wild a wacky things. You are human you are having human thoughts and feelings. Throughout history men and woman have struggled with just these thoughts and have come to many different conclusions. Just do not start thinking you have to start throwing virgins into volcanoes to appease the creators of the matrix.
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Turvenuija
Up shroom creek without a paddle

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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Kiwi89] 1
#28615825 - 01/09/24 10:45 PM (18 days, 9 hours ago) |
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Thanks, I think I needed to hear that. About the virgins, can I toss just one just in case? 
Oh and OP sorry for hijacking the thread things got derailed pretty quick
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Edited by Turvenuija (01/09/24 10:46 PM)
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CHUCK.HNTR
feral urbanite



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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: The Blind Ass] 2
#28615826 - 01/09/24 10:46 PM (18 days, 9 hours ago) |
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Integration will be different for everyone depending on what your goals are. Iโve had larger goals from practical things like managing anger, anxiety and depression to more lofty ideas like getting in tune with my primal self and ancestors.
I hope to empty myself and have space for new ways of being. There are always new things that crop up too.
My most successful integration has been simple acts like being more present and spending more time with loved ones. Though these acts better-ness has followed.
-------------------- "What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
   
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redgreenvines
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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Northerner]
#28615860 - 01/09/24 11:36 PM (18 days, 8 hours ago) |
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like each step of walking can be conceived as falling and not getting hurt.
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_ ๐ง _
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skylaiar
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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: Freedom] 1
#28616157 - 01/10/24 09:38 AM (17 days, 22 hours ago) |
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I am exploring this more myself as I get deeper into this "scene".
Mysticism has been the primary vehicle for me, or rather it emerged for me as useful spontaneously over a year ago. I've found at lower doses I somehow can have hours of bliss with a certain meditation strategy that often can turn into visions -- experience without meditation otherwise would just be a nice high. So, this has really set me on a journey as one time I emerged from a vision different.
This morning I woke up with this question in mind as I do have decent recall and magic shrooms turn out to be better teachers than cannabis with the approach that I discovered (or did it discover me).
I'm curious if others are able to relate, but last night I had a mini-dose, which if I were just sitting on the couch is just a sublime high with some visual effects. However, if I immerse myself into a meditative state its, more or less, ecstatic.
Any who, I was guided in that state into a sort of surrender where I am the bliss. I also was shown how to witness and be the state. Curiously "they" are keen on showing me something more, but there's a gateway in ecstatic experience that I have found repeatedly can be taken -- going beyond it. Emerging beyond it is a finer state of bliss that lacks intensity, but somehow is more fulfilling?
And then I get "sucked" back into prior state and rinse and repeat. "They" point out the role attachment is playing while in these states, which is the strangest thing to me. Why is that happening and why am I not just gorked out on the bliss that's available? And what is it that is actually beyond?
At this same dose I've seen that the human personality is one layer of emergence for whatever I / we fundamentally are beneath it. And even been encouraged to bring that fundamental quality through the personality while I am here. It's far out man. I have no idea.
Any who, I feel a bit like Ram Dass where I find myself seeking both further experiences to learn from (growing now so will have a stockpile to play with), but also I am increasingly becoming convinced I can achieve these things outside of the psychedelic experience within a sober meditative context.
I do not know, but I wonder...
And then I have to get back to work after all of that beauty. Ugh, western civilization is undoubtedly ill suited for all of this as I am also finding materialism, etc. more of a bane than a boon of existence.
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epilectric
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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: skylaiar] 1
#28616180 - 01/10/24 10:06 AM (17 days, 22 hours ago) |
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beauty all around
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Lithop
Spaghetti Days


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Re: What have you integrated from tripping? [Re: skylaiar] 2
#28617833 - 01/11/24 04:58 PM (16 days, 15 hours ago) |
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Quote:
skylaiar said:And then I have to get back to work after all of that beauty. Ugh, western civilization is undoubtedly ill suited for all of this as I am also finding materialism, etc. more of a bane than a boon of existence.
Aye, it can be dog shit but it makes me think (I can't track it down RN) of a Ram D story where a guy calls in to 'Talk Radio from the Heart' or something and the caller is all: "I feel so much of a calling to dharmic life. I want to meditate, to visit Holy places- I want to learn what is practical from these teachings- but I have so many responsibilities tethering me to the city! How can I leave that all behind to truly experience dharma?" Ram Dass said something along the lines of "You're not going to like this, but the city with all of it's displeasures, distractions etc etc is exactly where you SHOULD be in order to learn. What are you going to find in a cave that can be useful to your life in the city? "
Know what I mean? Something about learning to ride the wave, because there WILL be a wave, as opposed to seeking a waveless life. If you can't see the beauty, fucking MAKE the beauty. Turn bane to boon, the philosphers stone baaaabaay! See also: Grist for the Mill, and

As for my view on integration from psychedelics, I feel like the best integration (beside what Northerner was saying about REintegration) is taking the feelings or thoughts out of the abstract, and into the realm of action. In 2021 when I was blasting a lot more LSD, I was tripping lids & watched this environmental documentary with my Gf. It was so fucked, and I felt like I got MK Ultra'd off the footage of kids digging the metal out of piles of E-waste and breathing in the fumes for fractions of a cent or whatever pittance they were making, if anything at all. Then all the rough scenes of animal and plant life suffering because of our addiction to comfort and convenience. Stuff that our influence is more of a deteriment to by & large. 'Endlings' and all that. Somehow more disturbing, were the ways the natural world learns to cope with our wanton fuckery by evolving in some way to the shit we put it through. I felt it to my core beyond my core, I felt like it was happening to me. Because in a way it was. Got so frustrated, animated, pacing about the living room toking my vape and I was like "I'M GONNA START WEIGHING HOW MUCH PLASTIC WE USE EVERY WEEK AND PICK IT UP FROM THE BEACH." I didn't do that, exactly, but I did start to go out at least once a week and pick up as much shit as I could along the river, the coast etc. Some weeks I only get one bag and feel almost dissapointed, but the feeling of injustice that was the abstract during the trip is still just as strong and keeps me doing it- the realm of action. After the first few times, it actually got really fun- the brain seems to like the pattern recognition or something and getting out in nature with good music in your ears and dank nugs in your lungs with a clear goal in mind has paid absolute dividends for my mental health and self esteem- and I'll tell you what, getting high as fuck and walking back home for some food with some bags of rubbish you can barely carry is fucking beaut.
 Whether or not the waste ends up anywhere better is something I'll hopefully be able to discern more in the future, but for the time being there's far reaching benefits in going to my favourite tripping spots and seeing there's fuck all there that's not meant to be.
In a similar vein, watching 'Shallow Hal' on shrooms a few year back and getting big downloads about 'background people' and the unceremonious way those who REALLY keep our society running are treated, done a number on more of the selfishness embedded into me by being raised in this Western 'cult of the self' way. Soon after, I felt drawn toward a local charity and spontainously applied for a role which I love still. Without psychedelics, and their wonderful, horrifying and often confusing messages that take some real digging to get the internal alchemical change happening, I feel my own bullshit would have very likely done what it usually does- keep me passive, guilty ridden and depressed. Not that I'm not still passive, guilt ridden and depressed lol.
Sometimes, of course, I REALLY get the wrong end of the stick and end up having to do what Northerner said and REintegrate some of the good stuff that has been pushed away by whatever weird 'lesson' the trip imparted this time, because sometimes their either isn't one or it's not the right time. Generally speaking though, it's no harm no foul because psychs seem to steer my life toward unity and the betterment of the lives of those I love, even if the form that takes seems whack to my built up sense of self. Self consciousness tells me to add, that if anyone sees this post as 'virtue signalling' or sanctimonious and all that of me being a good boy- fuckin sukkacack, man. By all means, keep throwing your fucking Elfbars on the street and making cool cynical observations about the futility of doing stuff. It's your right after all, but you don't have to. I'm still mostly monkey too, I want to eat stuff and if I can't eat it I very likely want to fuck it- if I can do both? What bliss.๐ I want to make my brain see funny shapes, I want some sort of control, some status or acceptance from the rest of the apes, even if I'd sooner deny it.
TLDR: what have I integrated from tripping? I suppose the main one is what I want and what I need are rarely the same thing- sometimes poles apart- and my addiction to false comfort is only really strong on the first few layers. We are really more malliable than we give ourselves credit for- not always for the better, mind you- but as ugly as the actions may need to be, there's usually choice.
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