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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblecubedryeguy
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28614150 - 01/08/24 02:11 PM (19 days, 23 hours ago)

That makes sense(s)


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: cubedryeguy]
    #28614754 - 01/09/24 03:20 AM (19 days, 10 hours ago)

Everyone wants their frequency to be accepted.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28614766 - 01/09/24 03:53 AM (19 days, 10 hours ago)

we are all built to the same core frequency (i.e. 6-12 hz depending on activity level), but we have different rhythms and cadences that we tend to abide in (beats, swing, speech patterns, physical tics etc.).
Maybe that is what you mean, more likely, as it is not the base frequency that varies that much, but the rhythms and cadences of our expressions vary a lot.


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Invisiblecubedryeguy
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28614776 - 01/09/24 04:13 AM (19 days, 9 hours ago)

My piano playing agrees with the uniqueness of one’s rhythm


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: cubedryeguy]
    #28614799 - 01/09/24 05:01 AM (19 days, 8 hours ago)

Frequency based on broadcast bandwidth.

The personality and characteristics are broadcasted via the electromagnetic spectrum.

A high point (high life point) is broadcasted..

And then everything below is broadcasted till the infintismally low point.. or min amount of information broadcasted..

The signals are existent with the conscious field.

So my questions are:

Are all fields morpho-genetic?

And,

Are all fields anthropomorphic?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28614835 - 01/09/24 05:53 AM (19 days, 8 hours ago)

I don't think about that Brendan. maybe you should ask Genesiscorrupted or someone else.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28614837 - 01/09/24 05:55 AM (19 days, 8 hours ago)

But your thought waves must be part of a field..

No?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28614865 - 01/09/24 06:31 AM (19 days, 7 hours ago)

Locally low power and further reduced by the square of the distance, aside from which, patterns only hold up in micro scale distances.

Beyond that everything is reduced to noise


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OfflineIcon
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28614922 - 01/09/24 07:45 AM (19 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I work with slightly different numbers eg 80 billion neurons in the brain of various types, and he is talking about 100 billion neurons of one type (i.e. having 50000 dendrites).
so basically oversimplifying.
simple is good, too simple is not so good.

I also do not consider that we are predicting meanings as he and many AI aficionados are promoting and as LLM's seem to be doing.

but he is stirring the pot and making people think.
that is good.

I did not and would not watch the whole video but if there is a transcript I might read it or scan it.



Did you watch his joke and theory about humor being related to thought connectivity? He suggests that, if we are predicting the end of a sentence in real time, but the speaker says something unexpected as a joke, it's rewarding to the brain to turn down a previously unestablished path through the neurons to appreciate a new association / way of thinking about something. Kind of makes sense to me, humor being so effective in lowering people's guard and opening them to thinking about things differently. His speech is filled with jokes, maybe thats why I liked it so much.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Icon]
    #28614928 - 01/09/24 07:55 AM (19 days, 6 hours ago)

right, although, prediction, is not exactly what we are doing, with regard to expectation in following a known and familiar path.
the divergence from the familiar after being walked along - then suddenly being lost - that is what feels funny.
the divergence from the familiar. not prediction failure as such.


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28615429 - 01/09/24 03:51 PM (18 days, 22 hours ago)

Using this model, how would you explain what's happening with psychedelic visuals, particularly when they are flowing quickly from one previously unimagined thing into another into another into another?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Freedom]
    #28615511 - 01/09/24 05:12 PM (18 days, 20 hours ago)

the psychedelic state occurs when receptors have been activated that reduce the charge required to cause neurons to fire.
so while usually the cortico-thalamic loop fires three times and fades out in 3/10ths of a second, on psychedelics (depending on dose) the looping continues several more times  from progressively weakening signals in the feedback  loop.
sometimes lasting up to 3 full seconds (before blackout occurs)

this means that with slower fading out of signals (visual signals) we have a kind of frame-stacking effect that can include up to 30 layers of images both from eyes and from memory all layered and overlapped.

not just in primary visual centers but also in temporal centers and parietal centers which produce a bit of 3-d visual animation to help pull vision together into trajectories and geomentrics.

meantime you have layering in body sensation as well which can feel like gravity or pulling or itching.
all of it together goes into the hallucination.

also with audio...


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28615526 - 01/09/24 05:20 PM (18 days, 20 hours ago)

I can see that with say trailing effects or geometric effects, but what about the smooth visuals like lets see

oh ok this video is nice cause it shows some of the trailing effects but then shows some of the weird creative and smooth imagery I see sometimes. I see this once in a while with acid. dmt tends to be more geometric and also more difficult for me to remember. what i usually see with acid is this kind of thing but it flows really fast. it has the same smoothness and style, but flows from weird image to weird image very quickly and seemlessly, even with open eyes.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Freedom]
    #28615558 - 01/09/24 05:45 PM (18 days, 20 hours ago)

motion trails can deliver smooth sustained images including imaginary embellishments. so many things are possible, as the drivers are not just what you see, but also from other senses, and the trajectory following area of the brain is expert with smoothing, and that also is engaged


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28615861 - 01/09/24 11:38 PM (18 days, 14 hours ago)

Hmmm, thinking all sensations are part of a field.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28615877 - 01/09/24 11:57 PM (18 days, 13 hours ago)

Ahhh, I just figured it out..!

Your awareness is a field..

A field of awareness!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #28615879 - 01/10/24 12:00 AM (18 days, 13 hours ago)

you mean like a field with daisies in it I think.

not something flickering with complexity wherein each tiny flickr represents a field type of event.

consciousness (in the brain) is like millions of microscopic flickering fields, not one field.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28615889 - 01/10/24 12:23 AM (18 days, 13 hours ago)

From the smallest dimension to the biggest!

D0 brane as minimalism.

But the true question, is how high can it go!?

What is the biggest thing that can happen within the field..?

Micro and macro..


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: Freedom]
    #28619892 - 01/13/24 02:50 PM (14 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:

I'm curious what you think of Donald Hoffman's work

Quote:

(From https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-evolutionary-argument-against-reality-20160421/ ) The classic argument is that those of our ancestors who saw more accurately had a competitive advantage over those who saw less accurately and thus were more likely to pass on their genes that coded for those more accurate perceptions, so after thousands of generations we can be quite confident that we’re the offspring of those who saw accurately, and so we see accurately. That sounds very plausible. But I think it is utterly false. It misunderstands the fundamental fact about evolution, which is that it’s about fitness functions — mathematical functions that describe how well a given strategy achieves the goals of survival and reproduction. The mathematical physicist Chetan Prakash proved a theorem that I devised that says: According to evolution by natural selection, an organism that sees reality as it is will never be more fit than an organism of equal complexity that sees none of reality but is just tuned to fitness.







If the classical argument is that creatures who saw better had competitive advantage, I'd look at what 'saw' or 'see' means in this context. Because a hawk can see far better at long distance than we can, an owl can see better at night with their ocular arrangements, but a bat can 'see' very well without using its eyes, a sting ray can 'see' with electrical pulses, a snake can see in the infrared, and a mole doesn't need to see, just respond quickly to touch.

So overall I think that the competitive advantage of 'sight' lays in the niche survival strategy of the specific animals, and that visual sight alone shouldn't over encompass the general idea of using the senses to 'see'.

Quote:

So everything we see is one big illusion?
We’ve been shaped to have perceptions that keep us alive, so we have to take them seriously. If I see something that I think of as a snake, I don’t pick it up. If I see a train, I don’t step in front of it. I’ve evolved these symbols to keep me alive, so I have to take them seriously. But it’s a logical flaw to think that if we have to take it seriously, we also have to take it literally.

If snakes aren’t snakes and trains aren’t trains, what are they?
Snakes and trains, like the particles of physics, have no objective, observer-independent features. The snake I see is a description created by my sensory system to inform me of the fitness consequences of my actions. Evolution shapes acceptable solutions, not optimal ones. A snake is an acceptable solution to the problem of telling me how to act in a situation. My snakes and trains are my mental representations; your snakes and trains are your mental representations.




Misrepresentations of a tube or stick on the ground occur when perceptions aren't refined for identification. The perception of danger of being near a moving train come from our understanding of the physical implications associated with standing infront of moving ones.

Snakes and trains are our mental representations of or through our perceptive understanding imo.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: RGV's Consciousness 101 Basics [Re: sudly]
    #28619994 - 01/13/24 04:37 PM (14 days, 21 hours ago)

The idea that everything is an illusion or a simulation is quite popular in philosophical circles.

the closest I ever get to that is to say that we experience our world (internal and external) just a little behind the actuality of it happening, but we  are so accustomed to the lag, that we can relax into the trailing space we are afforded.

in our comfort we can pursue what we are interested in, doing the things we love, and in our discomfort we do what must be done in spite of how we feel, but always what we feel is about 1-2/10ths of a second late, and our spontaneous reaction time is hardly ever faster than 1/4 second, while moves we have practiced (like gymnastics) will include choreographed and practiced moves that are more complex and faster than can be spontaneously copied, although the gymnast can perform the sequences when called upon.

their tricks are no illusion, but they do illustrate the need to practice progressions and arcs of movement in order to appear to have physical reactions that are faster than 1/4 second.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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