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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: right, it is not a thing to conquer, but to understand. we do not understand by walking away and giving up. but also we do not understand by pretending to be stronger than it.
yes everyone's fear is uniquely their own. we have to know our selves and can only know our selves. so what will you do?
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,528
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breathe and be still
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_ 🧠_
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tree frog
eats bugs


Registered: 09/14/23
Posts: 443
Loc: lives in trees
Last seen: 21 minutes, 37 seconds
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Quote:
wolf8312 said: Sometimes a bad trip is kinda of like depression in real life. It just washes over you (often for no good reason) and suddenly you're in a temporary and irreversible state of malaise.
There's usually no retrieving the situation after that IME (same as when one is not tripping) you just have to embrace your own suffering!
For myself it can often occur when I start to get over confident and lazy, especially if I trip too often.
Telling myself I'm experienced, and all I have to do is let go, for some reason having forgotten that it requires actual courage/hard work to do this, not the repeating of a magical mantra!
I avoid my suffering on the daily. So, often tripping is a means of going back to myself.
A self care day, where self care is often embracing my suffering and working with it rather than running from it.
Like, I'm still working on quitting smoking. The Welbutrin was a bust due to insomnia.
I'll avoid tripping if I don't want to quit smoking. Rather, the part of me that doesn't want to do the work will put off tripping and keep smoking.
Tripped a few days ago and haven't bought a pack of smokes since. Ate some fresh Bisporus, laid on the couch, watched strong emotions come and go (mostly go, was focusing on watching things go). Was a difficult trip but rewarding and has made the smoking urges more manageable having watched them disappear repeatedly.
-------------------- Listen to the silence behind the engines' noise. Jesus, Sweets, listen. Hear it? It's a love song. For whom? You are loved. ~ David Foster Wallace, Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way
Edited by tree frog (01/10/24 12:12 AM)
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,042
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I see a lot of long posts here so I'll try to keep this brief.
What your describing is basically what I go through every time I trip (or abort plans to at the last minute.)
The truth is you can prep things, clean your space, do everything you want to create the perfect trip conditions.
The truth is there is always a chance for things to get scary.
The times I've just said "fuckit" and down the hatch, even when it's been bad, it's never been as bad as I thought it was going to be.
The thing is though, what you really seem to fear is fear itself. And I personally thinks that shows your own wisdom and self awareness. So at least you've got that going for you, and I think you'll be alright.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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SeventhMushroom
just a tiny agar pin


Registered: 12/30/22
Posts: 55
Last seen: 1 day, 23 hours
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aw, thanks everyone, all these points are great, and it sounds like my own experience relates to a good number of people here.
I'll be using some of these perspectives a bit! Somehow, I think this fits the best:
Quote:
tree frog said: I'll avoid tripping if I don't want to quit smoking. Rather, the part of me that doesn't want to do the work will put off tripping and keep smoking.
I do think that fear in general is a useful tool. It's a recognizable alert coming out of all the messy signals and data we have access to. However, I think a lot of times, our current environment doesn't allow us to deal with it directly. We can rarely run away from the really scary things anymore, and we usually get into trouble if we just start attacking the scary things too. Instead, we might adapt to just live with fear, instead of acting on it. In other words, we can learn to sit on the bed being afraid of the monsters, instead of learning to take action and walk over to see that there are no monsters.
As for me, I'm going to be preparing my space. I know what I'm afraid of, and now I get to choose how I act. At some point, the part of me that does want to put in the work will have a shot, even if today it's just prep
-------------------- LAGM 2024
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wolf8312
Pennywise


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 2,356
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Within the psychedelic community there is sometimes a tendency to portray fear from a Franklin D. Roosevelt "we have nothing to fear but fear itself" perspective.
In many ways I am on board with this philosophy and I certainly do believe (and often advise myself) that things like meditation, and "letting go" works wonders within the context of a psychedelic trip.
But I also believe this philosophy and these techniques have their limitations, both in life and when tripping.
Because what is fear? And what are our fears?
Nothing to fear but fear?
What about watching in horror as a loved one is run over and killed by a car? What about dying in agony?
Such things randomly occur each and every day, and although during a terrible trip, are not actually "real" they can often feel extremely real, and during an existential crisis-type trip, one can become haunted by the endless suffering and tragedies all of us (not to mention the poor animals) are -simply by living- on an inevitable collision course with.
It's sometimes much easier said than done to surrender to these "meat hook" realities, or be philosophical about them, if at the time you can feel these tragedies to the very depth of your own soul!
Once during an Anahuasca experience, for example, I was shown (wrongly) that my beloved father had died!
There was simply no way I was going to relax after that and surrender to the experience! Just no fucking way!
Little (demonic) tricks like this can occasionally pop up out of nowhere when tripping or under the influence (again especially with cannabis), and all the experience one may happen to have, flies out of the window!
Another experience (which I have related many times) is being led to believe that I would die after a count down reached zero (before watching 1408) and being convinced by the demons plaguing my mind that the worry in itself would kill me with a heart attack!
Telling myself to "surrender" and "let go" to this particular experience (edible cannabis) was especially problematic because the panic brought with it actual physiological symptoms (rapid heart rate, etc.) making it feel very possible that I was indeed worrying myself into a medical emergency!
I did kind of surrender to both of these experiences. Meaning I got through and survived (in large part due to prior experience with delusions/disaster) without losing my shit, or calling an ambulance, but didn't/couldn't ever surrender to them! Just had to ride out the nightmare!
I simply wasn't (truly) ready to die, anymore than I was ready to lose a loved one!
These experiences, and others like it, are the baggage I carry, and form the basis of my apprehension/fears when embarking on a psychedelic journey.
-------------------- "I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of." Pennywise the dancing clown
Edited by wolf8312 (01/11/24 04:04 AM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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I fear most is knowing what I've done as having wronged my own heart as per my understanding of things, and, as such, as having been done by my own hands. Sometimes easily as when simply pressed with stress, other times when i've been living life well so as to know the well lived life as more of goodness than of not- it happens less often, yet still I err. At worst, its as if having almost having stained my soul. In that, while somewhere some knowing abides by inside with countless other, greater, more excellent alternatives for enabling more wholesome interaction voa skillful means. Be it to go about in either way, as in, for better or worse; either, during some small or large disputed matter unfolding in the moment between myself and another, those that come about while heedless go on to generally be handled poorly, and the bite will sting a bit ~ be it in waking life, dream, or psychedelic experience. However, returning to the beginnings of what it is to be good, again, and again - not in some childish way - but in a mature, naturally harmonic way - that's also available while during whatever mode we may find ourselves as operating with.
Eg. By hurting another with some unruly unkindness, as in, adding further to the suffering of another or of myself. It happens much more than I care to admit.
Knowing how ignorant I am, there's always some sweeping up to do in that regard with respect to the above notion. Tripping can be approached in multitudes of ways, experimentation will show what it will and then the real testing of one's fortitude can be had in the day to day in a world where not everyone seeks to understand.
Understand yourself, above all else. Not as above others, nor lower than others, or equal with, nor disequal to - not as situated higher than any other; rather as in tandem or together beside with all ~ and see how what you've gleaned while on the down low while looking up at the light, might can make some light of your own, and thereby know of the shadows.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (01/11/24 04:28 AM)
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