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InvisibleSeventhMushroom
Is this thing on?


Registered: 12/30/22
Posts: 59
The Fear * 1
    #28613533 - 01/08/24 12:48 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

I have a confession. I haven't tripped in maybe 9 months. I think to myself I want to, yet I don't. And now, thinking about it, I sense fear in tripping again.

I'm very verbose, but I'll try to avoid writing a novel here, for your sake.

On the one hand, I *want* to trip. I want to gain the clarity of thought that comes with mushrooms (for me at least). I want the focus to think some tough things through. I even want to try using the focus to just get normal stuff done, it's something I haven't tried, but suspect might work well. I vividly remember a thought from a trip that might explain this feeling to you. Right as I was coming up, I felt calm and said to myself "ahh.. I'm finally in control again.". I want to be in control again.

On the other hand, I *fear* a trip right now. I know what I will think about, it's been on my mind for awhile. I've been tossing this problem over in my head for years now, but it's coming to a head. I don't fear some unknown thing happening, I fear that I know *exactly* what will happen. I already *know* the conclusions I've come to. I've always managed to reach the same endpoint in all my trips. And yet there's very worldly, practical concerns that I don't think a free mind will pay attention to. Thus, in essence, I fear losing control.

I'm not really looking for advice, or for someone to "help" me here. But maybe putting my thoughts down will help me resolve this contradiction. Or maybe another person's thoughts can give me a perspective I lack. Thank you for this place existing.


--------------------
LAGM 2024

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,499
Re: The Fear [Re: SeventhMushroom] * 1
    #28613628 - 01/08/24 04:48 AM (4 months, 7 days ago)

two things I can think of,
one - great benefits can come with much lower doses than people imagine.
i.e. 1/2 or 1/4 of the customary dose can be excellent.

the other thing is more real than psychological or philosophical, and that is that we never have control  as such.

we can prepare a scene with  great effort and still not predict what the out come will be so hold back on all predictions and stop second guessing yourself.

plan and create your safe place and your tools for reconnecting with the universe in a different way. and be free of predictive errors. you don't need to be right (or wrong) but just as you are without pretension.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:

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OfflineFreedom
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Re: The Fear [Re: SeventhMushroom]
    #28614449 - 01/08/24 07:47 PM (4 months, 6 days ago)

I get the sense you have your own wisdom about this and perhaps are second guessing yourself.

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
feral urbanite
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Registered: 09/30/19
Posts: 2,347
Loc: SF, CA, USA
Re: The Fear [Re: Freedom]
    #28614529 - 01/08/24 08:47 PM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Sending courage and blessings your way


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: The Fear [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #28614579 - 01/08/24 09:37 PM (4 months, 6 days ago)

There is no fear because there has to be a "You" to become fearful. It's just the ego, fear is a tiny fragment of the projected self, it doesn't exist within the true self. When you understand you are not your fear, just the attachment to a projected sense of self and the fear that arises in relation to that self, it will disappear. The true self doesn't even have thoughts, because it is simply a pure stream of unadulterated consciousness. All the noise you hear and feel is just your false self in a frenzy.

One of my favorite quotes; The mind doesn't know anything, it only thinks it knows.



--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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OfflineSoul Flight
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Registered: 05/04/23
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Re: The Fear [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #28614757 - 01/09/24 03:26 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Howdy. I think we all have that fear. Terrance McKenna said you should be afraid before every trip.

Sometimes one hour into a trip I wish I had not done it. But now I have to grind it out for 6 hours. It is my perspective that screws up the trip. It becomes something to endure and to sober up from.

The ego can play tricks on us because it wants to remain in total control.

“The heart has desires of which the mind knows not.” So maybe your subconscious has made some decisions and your conscious mind fears integrating this information. The trip will actualize you and reconnect you and expose you.

Take it slow. Be safe. :smile:

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Fear [Re: Eclipse3130] * 1
    #28614759 - 01/09/24 03:29 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Tripping has become more difficult for me to with age! The distances I went when I was younger, and the relative lack of fear I possesed, amaze me now looking back!

Most of this is a sense of responsibility to my family. Can't trip in the day (could always get a phone call) and at night by the time I get to midnight I'm usually too tired and know I have to awaken early!

If you really want to do it, a good method is to prepare the materials and on an occasion you do have time place them close at hand.

Like you, I'm always going back and forth in my own mind, wanting to trip and then finding reasons not to, but I haven't ever regretted any trip I've had in over twenty years now. I am always glad I did it!

If the Syrian rue (and once that is down there's never any going back) or the vape is in reach, as with a passing train, the right moment will occasionally just arrive, and with no time to procrastinate (prepare the materials) I tend to just say fuck it and it gets done!

Once the trip is in the post I become calmer and prepare myself, showering, getting into bed, breathing, etc. That part in itself is often beautiful!

Without any doubt, the hardest thing for me is not actually tripping but simply doing it!

Spice is a whole other animal though!

Oral ingestion has never had my adrenaline flowing and my heart in my mouth before blast off!

But it all depends on what is holding you back. Sometimes (myself when I was younger) there can be clear warning signs (unresolved issues) that, in fact, you shouldn't trip!

Myself it isn't like that today. I fear it (and constantly put it off) now, in the same way I would, going for a long jog!

I know it will be great for me, but also know it will be a lot of hard work!

Just do it!

A rather profound slogan by Nike when one thinks about it!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


Edited by wolf8312 (01/09/24 03:34 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Fear [Re: wolf8312]
    #28614770 - 01/09/24 04:00 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

every minute spent in fear behavior adds impetus for future fear reflexes.

avoid spending time in fear, become aware of it and see through it as soon as you can while relaxing and keeping still.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Fear [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28614786 - 01/09/24 04:33 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
every minute spent in fear behavior adds impetus for future fear reflexes.

avoid spending time in fear, become aware of it and see through it as soon as you can while relaxing and keeping still.




Are you fearless?

How can we avoid it?


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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Offlinetree frog
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Re: The Fear [Re: SeventhMushroom]
    #28614804 - 01/09/24 05:08 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

To deal with the fear I try to make safe spaces for myself and make taking the medicine about self care.

Basically if I respect the trip I find I don't need to fear it as much.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: The Fear [Re: wolf8312]
    #28614871 - 01/09/24 06:39 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
every minute spent in fear behavior adds impetus for future fear reflexes.

avoid spending time in fear, become aware of it and see through it as soon as you can while relaxing and keeping still.




Are you fearless?

How can we avoid it?



you cannot avoid it,
but you can relax in the face of it, and you can steer away from worrying which intensifies fear's connectivity in your mind.

to steer away, first relax, and take stock of what you are doing which is facing fear without getting involved with it.

just running away from fear also intensifies the connections it has in your life.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Fear [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28614886 - 01/09/24 07:03 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
every minute spent in fear behavior adds impetus for future fear reflexes.

avoid spending time in fear, become aware of it and see through it as soon as you can while relaxing and keeping still.




Are you fearless?

How can we avoid it?



you cannot avoid it,
but you can relax in the face of it, and you can steer away from worrying which intensifies fear's connectivity in your mind.

to steer away, first relax, and take stock of what you are doing which is facing fear without getting involved with it.

just running away from fear also intensifies the connections it has in your life.




I agree it can be managed. Although from what I've read of fighter/bomber pilots during WW2 (and that is true fear) the ability to manage fear is not unlimited, and everyone has a breaking point if the pressure is applied in the right place for long enough!

I've seen this even with tripping too tbh.

Sometimes, for whatever reason, the meditative/surrendering techniques just didn't work, and I was forced to surrender, even to my own inability to surrender!

And just have/accept a bad trip!

Might not have gone well in a Lancaster though! I think it's a question of whether one is genuinely able to accept death in the face of it?

And I don't think this can be said of most of us tbh.

This is why I always found cannabis so dangerous with psychedelics. As that particular combo (for myself anyhow) could, if things went south, create such a convincing and irresistible simulation of death comparative to a lone psychedelic (which are pretty forgiving IME). 


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


Edited by wolf8312 (01/09/24 11:09 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Fear [Re: wolf8312]
    #28614952 - 01/09/24 08:19 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

this is not like the air force, and there is no need to take it personally, in fact this is not about you it is about associative memory and triggers.
if you are triggering fear, you have reason to slow down and relax and face the issue, neither running away nor combating the fear.
this makes a new habit. the new habit takes over and moves into other areas as well,
where slowing down and openly facing things becomes part of your lovely character.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:đź§   _ :finger:

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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: The Fear [Re: wolf8312]
    #28614957 - 01/09/24 08:29 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

We can learn to re-know and redeem fear. Insights have come in the form of “fear is just energy that has gotten caught” and “fear is love in disguise” and “fear is a titrating mechanism for modulating the flow of energy through the body.”

In other words, fear is not bad. Adopting a state of curiosity helps us to take a closer look at it. I love the analogy of being afraid of the monsters in the closet, but then getting the courage to go over and take a closer look, only to find that the “monsters” are just shadows of hanging clothes. Within the psyche, we are afraid of the shadows of our own greatness, power, and beauty.

The OP’s language is very interesting. How one can be afraid of something one already knows to be true. But to know it fully might have real world implications (of change?). There’s still shadows at play here, though. Truly, to avoid truth is the bigger danger.


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: The Fear [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #28614965 - 01/09/24 08:34 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Sometimes, for whatever reason, the meditative/surrendering techniques just didn't work, and I was forced to surrender, even to my own inability to surrender!





This really resonates with me. I’m having dim flashbacks to specific trip moments of trying to surrender, trying, trying… and finally after giving up in sheer exhaustion and having no choice but to give in to dying, then the portal to peace finally opens. It’s like if you’re the gazelle getting eaten by the lion, you have to run, resist, struggle until the last moment when you can struggle no more..


--------------------
:musicnote:  :royalrainbow:
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet."
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Fear [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28614994 - 01/09/24 09:06 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:
Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Sometimes, for whatever reason, the meditative/surrendering techniques just didn't work, and I was forced to surrender, even to my own inability to surrender!





This really resonates with me. I’m having dim flashbacks to specific trip moments of trying to surrender, trying, trying… and finally after giving up in sheer exhaustion and having no choice but to give in to dying, then the portal to peace finally opens. It’s like if you’re the gazelle getting eaten by the lion, you have to run, resist, struggle until the last moment when you can struggle no more..




Sometimes a bad trip is kinda of like depression in real life. It just washes over you (often for no good reason) and suddenly you're in a temporary and irreversible state of malaise.

There's usually no retrieving the situation after that IME (same as when one is not tripping) you just have to embrace your own suffering!

For myself it can often occur when I start to get over confident and lazy, especially if I trip too often.

Telling myself I'm experienced, and all I have to do is let go, for some reason having forgotten that it requires actual courage/hard work to do this, not the repeating of a magical mantra!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


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OfflineFreedom
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Re: The Fear [Re: wolf8312]
    #28615020 - 01/09/24 09:25 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:


This is why I always found cannabis so dangerous with psychedelics. As that particular combo (for myself anyhow) could, if things went south, create such a convincing and irresistible simulation of death comparative to a lone psychedelic (which are pretty forgiving IME). 





This makes sense to me. I find cannabis has the ability to help stop thought, as well as psychedelics. When thought completely stops, the 'thinker' can 'die'. I say die because its common to feel like 'you' are dying. There is a stage in meditation where its common to face this existential fear. Meditators can get to this point and work with that fear for years.

What helped me for this kind of fear was to contemplate or meditate on the fact that I know I won't really die, and if I 'die', I'll come back and be ok. That I want to experience that. This kind of fear feels like panic to me, or terror. Also surprisingly repeating to myself over and over "I'm ok, I'm ok, I'm ok, I'm ok...." really helped. 

Quote:

Soul Flight said:
Howdy. I think we all have that fear. Terrance McKenna said you should be afraid before every trip.





I don't agree with Terrance on this. Existential fear, fear of losing control, fear of shadow material and fear of challenging experiences may be natural to some extent, however we can get used to these things and dissolve those fears. 

This happened slowly over years. Part of the problem is I started using psychedelics as a teenager, so had the fear of illegality, prison, getting caught etc built into the experience, and all the media encouraged fears I had to slowly learn on my own were way exaggerated.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:


Are you fearless?

How can we avoid it?

...

Sometimes, for whatever reason, the meditative/surrendering techniques just didn't work, and I was forced to surrender, even to my own inability to surrender!







You can't become fearless because 'you' already are fearless. Awareness, the witness, is like the eye of a hurricane. The hurricane is all our thoughts and feelings and perceptions. The eye isn't an actually thing with a shape, size, color etc, its more of an absence. If you ask the question 'what is it that's aware?' or 'what is it that sees, hears, feels, things?' and instead of thinking about the answer look directly, you can find it.

This still place is always there, no matter what state the hurricane is in. By practicing this in meditation while in a calm stable state of mind, you can develop the skill of recognizing it, and then recognize it in difficult states of mind. Because this awareness is closer to you than the thoughts and feelings, you can notice that you feel at peace all the time, even when difficult states of mind appear. This is the old analogy of clouds passing through the clear sky. This is the place that is already surrendered. Seeing yourself as this sky rather than the clouds can dissolve fear.

I found this awareness useful during very difficult trips, and also helped me heal really extreme PTSD. It helps deal with the fear of shadow material as well.

'Pre-loading' acceptance is also helpful. For example I went through a period where tripping was physically and emotionally uncomfortable in lots of ways. During this time I was also training for a marathon. Before a trip I would think to myself, "The discomfort I may face today is similar to the discomfort of a 4 hour run. I am willing and capable to experience this discomfort. I am choosing this in the same way as the run." This helped put things in perspective for me.

Time helps too, becoming familiar with lots of different states of mind and body. Taking things slow and low dose can help build familiarity while minimizing the chances of having traumatic experiences that reinforce fear.

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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: The Fear [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28615064 - 01/09/24 10:09 AM (4 months, 6 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
this is not like the air force, and there is no need to take it personally, in fact this is not about you it is about associative memory and triggers.




Well I am discussing my own fears, fears that are based on personal experiences!

The question is why some of us may fear using psychedelics?

I may fear psychedelics more than you do, and may also have better reason to fear them, as our past experiences are not the same.

If I put a gun to your head could you genuinely take the philosophy you've expounded upon above and truly surrender to your own death?

Would that philosophy really mean much in the face of such a cold and pitiless reality? Goodbye forever in this very instance!

Or would you -like me- beg and wail and probably piss/shit your own pants?

Similarly, if you were having a truly awful trip, in which you genuinely, truly believed you were going to die, would you be able to surrender and be philosophical about it?

Honestly?

My point is that the 'fear' we are discussing is different for everyone because we are all carrying different baggage.

Personally, I know I can never truly conquer all my (psychedelic) fears!

Simply because I would be lying if I told you all that I had conquered my fear of death! A death that happens right now, at this very moment!

I've made strides (especially with cannabis the greatest death simulation of all) but conquered it?

Nah...

And therefore a bad trip (fear) remains a distinct possibility!


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


Edited by wolf8312 (01/09/24 10:16 AM)

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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Registered: 09/30/19
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Loc: SF, CA, USA
Re: The Fear [Re: wolf8312]
    #28615114 - 01/09/24 11:06 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
This is why I always found cannabis so dangerous with psychedelics. As that particular combo (for myself anyhow) could, if things went south, create such a convincing and irresistible simulation of death comparative to a lone psychedelic (which are pretty forgiving IME). 




I’ve always had strong disassociation effects with even the slightest too much weed. Partly why in my teens I avoided mushrooms peers would always say it’s like weed but much stronger.
Later on I discovered the clarity that they more often provide. Fear and confusion, yes, but not at all in the way weed makes me.


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Fear [Re: wolf8312]
    #28615152 - 01/09/24 11:46 AM (4 months, 5 days ago)

right, it is not a thing to conquer, but to understand.
we do not understand by walking away and giving up.
but also we do not understand by pretending to be stronger than it.

yes everyone's fear is uniquely their own. we have to know our selves and can only know our selves.
so what will you do?


--------------------
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