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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences
    #28612194 - 01/06/24 07:41 PM (21 days, 12 hours ago)

Hey all,
I find it fascinating that Sasha Shulgin had a profound mescaline experience and that led to his interest in MDMA and all the other avenues he explored.

I have a small cactus garden that I hope to build eventually in to a sustainable medicine garden, I also just like being in the presence of the cactus, however I haven’t had the chance to try it yet.

I’ve done MDMA a few times but I’m more inclined to pure plant/fungus medicine, mushrooms/aya

I’d love to hear your thoughts and feelings comparing and contrasting cactus and MDMA

Also for the cactus heads out there have you ever feared that you OD’d in a dangerous way?
My last MDMA experience was in crystal form and we were just dipping our finger in the bag (I know probably a stupid way to do it)
My first dip just brought be to the doorway but the second dip I thought for 10-20 mins that I way overshot it luckily I calmed down after another 10-15 mins and all was gravy.


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"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
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Onlineepilectric
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #28612519 - 01/07/24 02:38 AM (21 days, 5 hours ago)

never tried mesc but once read "mescaline is not like mdma but mdma is like mescaline"


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: epilectric]
    #28612546 - 01/07/24 03:24 AM (21 days, 5 hours ago)

I've been meaning to try it, and I guess it's a more subtle trip, that lasts a while?


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OfflineAiko Aiko
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: skOsH]
    #28612697 - 01/07/24 07:30 AM (21 days, 55 minutes ago)

I almost always get that quick panic when MDMA first hits, even on known quantity and purity. It's like you said, but for me it's more like, "why the hell did I do this again", but that quickly subsides into "oh yeah, that's why I did this again." 😂

I only have one cactus experience and it was very mild. I made tar balls and I think I ate them too slow and/or it was just too small of a dose. I did get some effects though and there was some similarity to MDMA on the way down from what I remember. I was getting something like 20-30ish ugs of LSD in terms of visuals for a few hours: noticable color enhancement, some trails and increase in visual clarity, then a few hours of less visuals and more empathogen effects all very mild. 

I too have a little garden. I have a cutting that's been in my closet for about 4 months. I'm waiting for some free time I have to do it. I want it to be out in nature somewhere special and not just sitting around the house. 

Ím also a little concerned about over shooting, but what I've read, unless you have a remarkably strong cutting, or you just use too much to begin with, it would be pretty difficult to get into "OD" territory if that's what you're asking? I would imagine like any other psych, theres a potential for too intense of a trip/freak out.


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Edited by Aiko Aiko (01/07/24 07:31 AM)


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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #28612997 - 01/07/24 12:49 PM (20 days, 19 hours ago)

It seems a lot of folks entering the cactus realm have had concerns about potential overdoses, cardiac issues, hypertensive crisis. I was one of them, but my concerns have diminished with repeated use as well as consuming more information from others.

I wonder if the concerns are because there's so much more information and publicity about psilocybin and LSD being physiologically very safe, while mescaline is still somewhat "underground." Also due to the fact that much more of the molecule is required to trip. LSD being the real puzzler due to its trip level activity at the .1 milligram level; then psilocybin at 10s of milligrams; then mescaline at 100s of milligrams. So, it seems on paper like a much "grosser" or clumsier molecule. Also, maybe concerns because it is structurally similar to amphetamines?

Please keep in mind that this is just an interested layman's interpretation of bits of information lol.

Here is a study that compared the three drugs and their effects: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10517157/
all three of them have very similar effects on blood pressure and heart rate. I found this through a quick google search. If anyone knows of a study that more directly looks at the overall safety profile of mescaline, let us know (I could not find one through a quick google search).

The ld50 of mescaline (while nowhere near the obscene safety LSD offers), still looks pretty high: 880 mg/kg. For a 150 lb person, that's almost 6,000 mg of mescaline. The reality is that people struggle to get even a few hundred mgs worth from large sections of cactus.


Putting aside the issue of pure mescaline, then there is the question others have had about whether there are other compounds in the cactus that could increase the risk profile. Such as hidden maois. I've seen some intelligent posts on this topic that basically dismiss this idea. I'm not gonna go back and try to get more specifics. I guess I'll just say that it was speculation that didn't seem to hold up to any real scrutiny - at least regarding maois. Who knows though, maybe there are other alkaloids that have effects that synergize/potentiate the mescaline.


So! All this is a long-winded way of saying that: NO, I'm not concerned about physical safety on cactus. It can be quite unpleasant with lots of nausea. But I've never seen any reports of real dangers/bad health outcomes. The more common problem seems to be getting ENOUGH mescaline, not getting too much.


--------------------
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." :aliendance:
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(With all the accoutrements.)


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OfflineBardy
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28613050 - 01/07/24 01:48 PM (20 days, 18 hours ago)

Low dose mescaline feels a lot like MDMA in certain ways to me. It’s definitely much more like MDMA than LSD or shrooms are… but in terms of effects mescaline is closer to LSD than MDMA.

The low doses come with stimulation and euphoria, and also feelings of unconditional love (although a lot less so than mdma).

The more you take the trippier it gets and the more it departs from MDMA. It’s always really stimulating, but it starts feeling quite heavy at higher doses and if you take enough you end up in a kaleidoscope vortex. The physical effects when I was in the vortex where a little worrying to me at the time… I didn’t realise I’d taken a big dose and I started stressing a bit which probably raised my heart rate. I was fine in the end, I just laid on my bed for an hour or two until the strongest bit subsided.

But yeah, mescaline is pretty freaking great. just make sure you don’t jump in the deep end straight away


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #28613071 - 01/07/24 02:25 PM (20 days, 18 hours ago)

L
Quote:

Aiko Aiko said:
I almost always get that quick panic when MDMA first hits, even on known quantity and purity. It's like you said, but for me it's more like, "why the hell did I do this again", but that quickly subsides into "oh yeah, that's why I did this again." 😂




Yep, I get a feeling of...well, it is nice, but I probably shouldn't...but it's there.


Quote:

Aiko Aiko said:
I only have one cactus experience and it was very mild. I made tar balls and I think I ate them too slow and/or it was just too small of a dose. I did get some effects though and there was some similarity to MDMA on the way down from what I remember. I was getting something like 20-30ish ugs of LSD in terms of visuals for a few hours: noticable color enhancement, some trails and increase in visual clarity, then a few hours of less visuals and more empathogen effects all very mild.




Didn't realize rgar you were referring to the cactus for MDMA like effects. It makes me curious as to what receptor sites it binds to. I never once considered how the body and mind works for these situations.

Okay, I can attest to that as well. For some reason I also get a subtle LSD effect on MDMA. Maybe it's because it is such a similar neurotransmitter site. 5B instead of 5A. MDMA tinkers with the hypothalamus, whist LSD messes around with the amygdala. I have always wanted to try mescaline, and I would want to do it once by itself, then wait for my tolerance to reset and try it with LSD

Shrooms + LSD I think was just slightly less intense than pharmahuasca/ayahuasca. There were plenty of visuals and I cherished every single second of that trip. I got it to last 16 hours. On a day off, and it felt like I had gotten a week off, that's how much time was dilating for me.


Quote:

Aiko Aiko said:
Ím also a little concerned about over shooting, but what I've read, unless you have a remarkably strong cutting, or you just use too much to begin with, it would be pretty difficult to get into "OD" territory if that's what you're asking? I would imagine like any other psych, theres a potential for too intense of a trip/freak out.




Oh, don't worry, I know it has a long half life, and it might tempt people to do more, but they're getting diminished returns, and on high high doses, you get really bad fluid retention, but you sweat profusely, so you get rapidly dehydrated. The body is trying to process the MDMA, which passes through the kidneys.

Fortunately if you have this problem, lean against the wall, and unclench your jaw, and you should be able to do a basic bodily function. It's kind of scary if you can't, and you're just standing there, trying to relax your muscles, but they won't respond because the MDMA is affecting your central nervous system, and without enough electrolytes and water, the body loses some functionality. This, along with the dehydration, causes significant proble. Cells need flowing H20, constantly, and as long as someone drinks about 4oz of powerade or equivalent every hour, they should be fine. This is just for OD's

Going into the realm of 1g MDMA or something wild like that, you'll likely survive, just the next days won't be fun...especially if you hit that limit, you'll just start projectile vomiting (kinda like ayahuasca/pharmahuasca). It all depends on how your brain reacts to it, and some people get the "Tuesday blues" I think it's called, but I have yet to get it. I make sure to take vitamins, supplement, watch my calories, and find a way to run every day.

Liposomal glutathione is such a powerhouse. It's a prophylactic against covid, it literally cleans the plaque build up in the brain and also is excellent when removing free radicals from the body.


Edited by skOsH (01/07/24 02:29 PM)


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28613210 - 01/07/24 04:27 PM (20 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:

The ld50 of mescaline (while nowhere near the obscene safety LSD offers), still looks pretty high: 880 mg/kg. For a 150 lb person, that's almost 6,000 mg of mescaline. The reality is that people struggle to get even a few hundred mgs worth from large sections of cactus.

So! All this is a long-winded way of saying that: NO, I'm not concerned about physical safety on cactus. It can be quite unpleasant with lots of nausea. But I've never seen any reports of real dangers/bad health outcomes. The more common problem seems to be getting ENOUGH mescaline, not getting too much.




Gonna have to remember these points!


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Aiko Aiko] * 1
    #28613228 - 01/07/24 04:43 PM (20 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Aiko Aiko said:
it's more like, "why the hell did I do this again", but that quickly subsides into "oh yeah, that's why I did this again."



Me every time I use a psychedelic.


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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Bardy]
    #28613244 - 01/07/24 04:52 PM (20 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Bardy said:
It’s definitely much more like MDMA than LSD or shrooms are… but in terms of effects mescaline is closer to LSD than MDMA.





I feel the same.


--------------------
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." :aliendance:
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #28613250 - 01/07/24 04:59 PM (20 days, 15 hours ago)

Just another point on this subject (I'm passionate about it right now because about a year and a half ago I felt intuitively called to explore both MDMA and mescaline, after it had been a decade without using either):

I think these two substances complement each other well. By that, I DON'T mean taking them in combination at the same time. But I do think that taking mescaline a few weeks prior to and/or a few weeks following an mdma experience, helps to deepen and integrate the mdma experience. I think mdma is a great molecule with huge potential for a wide range of purposes, including recreational, spiritual, and healing. However, it does have a sinister quality with greater risk of OD, really harsh come-downs (for some people even what they call "long term comedowns), and abuse.

For me, mescaline seems to help ground the mdma experience back to the earth, the health and well-being of the body, the reality of my community. While peaking on mdma, it's easy to think "I've found the answer! I love everyone! I'm going to just love everyone and show them and tell them!" only to come down and feel it was all a pipe dream. But the mescaline helps to make it more real, more grounded, more true. Just my 2 cents.


--------------------
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." :aliendance:
A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 1
    #28613318 - 01/07/24 06:24 PM (20 days, 14 hours ago)

Appreciate the insights Blue Chulhu
I have potentially 2 cactus trips in my freezer, unknown if the San Pedro is at all active, it was a plant I bought before I knew about bridgesii etc.

I grew & prepared it with love but haven’t found the right time to do it yet.

The last MDMA experience was NYE, and I was super apprehensive, but wanted to be in the same space as the group I was celebrating with, but didn’t follow my normal harm reduction protocol, which I don’t feel great about.
However it was an amazing time.
Also, despite what I hear of happening often, I was left with a good afterglow for days except for a bit of depersonalization which could have also been from mushrooms trips in the days preceding. It was quite the holiday extravaganza.


--------------------
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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Mescaline vs MDMA effects/thoughts/experiences [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #28614384 - 01/08/24 06:35 PM (19 days, 13 hours ago)

Sounds lovely. I do hope your cuttings turn out to be potent enough for your purposes, fingers crossed!


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