Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
    #28609440 - 01/04/24 12:27 PM (23 days, 18 hours ago)

"Give me liberty or give me death!"

But that which dies is not free. So yoga is dealing with the body. Yoga is freedom.

To me yoga is the same as spirituality-mysticism-religion. As yoga is union, it is understanding, knowledge, therefore yoga is also science.

Arguably, that which dies is not life. Life is not that which dies. Yoga is life. Elements take forms and change. Yoga uses the elements for its sake, as does life, magic, ...

"I am the Life.."
"My Father and I are one."
"Be still and know that I am God." These are yoga.

There is higher pleasure, but pleasure in that which dies also dies.

"Pleasure is a freedom song, but it is not freedom."

Suffering the pleasure of intoxicants etc, we see this. Entheogens are an interesting question around it as they are of the body, or, are physical things ingested. :shrugs: There seems to be exceptions. Find me a drink of soma, por favor. Right now I am drinking a little moderately cheap leftover port. It is better to invest a little more for quality, nevertheless, I was complaining to the ethers about the low quality intoxicants in this realm.

High quality intoxicants, of higher realms, are mental, spiritual.

The mantra is the shroomy, see? Shroomyites might quote and say that practices are not needed. As one who does not (often) use entheogens, I will say, if you say I don't need practices, you don't need entheogens.

Either of us can catch the flash in the moment of pointing at the moon, but the effort is in what, sustaining it, further exploration, the noble truths...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 38 minutes
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
    #28609521 - 01/04/24 02:31 PM (23 days, 16 hours ago)

I disagreed with you but didn't take offense (I think people often assume offence with disagreement, I just see it as people see things the way they see them because of their life experiences)

I don't know what yoga is, or anything is acutally lol. I can share some interesting expriences.

At one point I was meditating like 6 hours a day and also going to week long meditation retreats every 3 weeks. I was having some experiences where I started dissolving into the buzzing vibration of everything.  I also started doing yoga just to stretch my body out, since all the sitting was kind of tough on it. To my suprise, the buzzing disolving would be much more intense after doing yoga, and eventually that buzzing disolving led to the self completely disolving into infinity. I wasn't expecting any other effect than hoping i could be more physically comfortable.

At another point I was looking at the sense of there being a line between me and the world, or inside and outside. In meditation had times where that line diasapeared and it was like I was a continuous space throughout all senses. I did both qi gong and yoga at this point (someone just showed me qi gong one day). To my surprise both practices helped me integrate the experience of continuous space into my daily life.

At another point my pracice had fallen behind, I wasn't meditating daily but went to a yoga class on a whim. To my surprise again I fell into a unity state where there was still a sense of self but that self was everything. That happened regularly for a month or two.

I also used to be skeptic about chakras until I did these practices a lot. Chakras aren't part of my tradition so that was really a surprise. Also have had some kundalini type phenomena that was also surprising.

I've also beein looking at things energetically which is hard to describe, but all body pracices as well as diet, sex and other stuff effects the energetic system in my body.

I've never formally studied yoga and don't even know what the official stance on it is from the various traditions it comes from.


Edited by Freedom (01/04/24 02:36 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesolarshroomster
Wonderer
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
Re: What is yoga? [Re: Freedom]
    #28609596 - 01/04/24 03:46 PM (23 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
I disagreed with you but didn't take offense (I think people often assume offence with disagreement, I just see it as people see things the way they see them because of their life experiences)

I don't know what yoga is, or anything is acutally lol. I can share some interesting expriences.

At one point I was meditating like 6 hours a day and also going to week long meditation retreats every 3 weeks. I was having some experiences where I started dissolving into the buzzing vibration of everything.  I also started doing yoga just to stretch my body out, since all the sitting was kind of tough on it. To my suprise, the buzzing disolving would be much more intense after doing yoga, and eventually that buzzing disolving led to the self completely disolving into infinity. I wasn't expecting any other effect than hoping i could be more physically comfortable.

At another point I was looking at the sense of there being a line between me and the world, or inside and outside. In meditation had times where that line diasapeared and it was like I was a continuous space throughout all senses. I did both qi gong and yoga at this point (someone just showed me qi gong one day). To my surprise both practices helped me integrate the experience of continuous space into my daily life.

At another point my pracice had fallen behind, I wasn't meditating daily but went to a yoga class on a whim. To my surprise again I fell into a unity state where there was still a sense of self but that self was everything. That happened regularly for a month or two.

I also used to be skeptic about chakras until I did these practices a lot. Chakras aren't part of my tradition so that was really a surprise. Also have had some kundalini type phenomena that was also surprising.

I've also beein looking at things energetically which is hard to describe, but all body pracices as well as diet, sex and other stuff effects the energetic system in my body.

I've never formally studied yoga and don't even know what the official stance on it is from the various traditions it comes from.




Interesting... I like it! I still think entheogens are the way to go, but it sounds like there are other practices that can be valuable to others. Many people I know have vouched for meditation, but all I personally know from it is a broken back and boredom. I don't get it. I've never been able to attain anywhere close to a level of trance on them, but I'm not going to discount them be because I myself fail to get anything out of them.

Are people reliably having visionary experiences on meditation and yoga? What am I missing?


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: Freedom]
    #28609623 - 01/04/24 04:06 PM (23 days, 14 hours ago)

Oh, from what Solar said, you disagreed with me saying one man's mantra is another man's shroom?

~
No offense taken, but I'm curious what part you disagreed with. Needless to say I tend to over generalize. What is yoga? 'Well yoga is everything man.' But I think it's more valuable to say that with religion as it has been said, religion is simply what we do, what we follow day to day.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 38 minutes
Re: What is yoga? [Re: solarshroomster] * 2
    #28609633 - 01/04/24 04:12 PM (23 days, 14 hours ago)

For about 15 years I used psychedelics several times a year and valued them for the clarity they gave. Then I went to my first long meditation retreat. On the third day of the retreat the same clarity appeared, and suddenly I realized the point of what everyone there was doing was to learn to live with that in daily life. The prospect of living with that clarity in daily life became basically my highest priority. When I left the retreat that clarity lasted for a couple weeks, slowly fading out. I got to see the clarity function, relationships at work and home and even with strangers on the street changed in obvious ways.

I thought I would stabilize that state after another retreat or two :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am now less drawn to the big expansive states and am more interested in bringing life and joy and love to the little details of my life. Can I enjoy washing the dishes? Can I listen to my friend with my full attention? Can I find creative ways to respond to the weird political emails my dad sends me? Can I stay calm when the guy at work is frustrated and blaming me?

I'm finding lately that there is so much richness to be tapped in the normal everyday things.

Not to discount those amazing moments. The are part of the tapestry of life, and beautiful and inspiring. I think the thing with them is grasping at them is part of what blocks them, so there is natural feedback that stops the grasping for them.

It typically takes about 3 days of meditation for most people's minds to calm down and stabilize enough for things to start opening up. One thing you could try is meditating with marijuna or low doses of psychedelics that might give a little glimpse of someething.


Edited by Freedom (01/04/24 04:22 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 38 minutes
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
    #28609635 - 01/04/24 04:13 PM (23 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
Oh, from what Solar said, you disagreed with me saying one man's mantra is another man's shroom?

~
No offense taken, but I'm curious what part you disagreed with. Needless to say I tend to over generalize. What is yoga? 'Well yoga is everything man.' But I think it's more valuable to say that with religion as it has been said, religion is simply what we do, what we follow day to day.




I don't remember that, if you're talking to me


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: Freedom]
    #28609642 - 01/04/24 04:18 PM (23 days, 14 hours ago)

I thought you were talking to me when you said you disagreed with something, but I wasn't sure what it was.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 38 minutes
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28609643 - 01/04/24 04:20 PM (23 days, 14 hours ago)

no, I disagreed with solar about yoga being just fun or entertainment or something, but thats just my opinion based on my limited experience.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesolarshroomster
Wonderer
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
Re: What is yoga? [Re: Freedom]
    #28609715 - 01/04/24 05:22 PM (23 days, 13 hours ago)

Okay, now I'm happy this topic of yoga and spirituality vs. mysticism was brought up. If I can, for the sake of learning, go back to my previous more oppositional attitude in this post... add: What's interesting to me is that your first paragraph

Quote:

For about 15 years I used psychedelics several times a year and valued them for the clarity they gave. Then I went to my first long meditation retreat. On the third day of the retreat the same clarity appeared, and suddenly I realized the point of what everyone there was doing was to learn to live with that in daily life. The prospect of living with that clarity in daily life became basically my highest priority. When I left the retreat that clarity lasted for a couple weeks, slowly fading out. I got to see the clarity function, relationships at work and home and even with strangers on the street changed in obvious ways.




Can be contrasted against your subsequent paragraphs

Quote:

I am now less drawn to the big expansive states and am more interested in bringing life and joy and love to the little details of my life. Can I enjoy washing the dishes? Can I listen to my friend with my full attention? Can I find creative ways to respond to the weird political emails my dad sends me? Can I stay calm when the guy at work is frustrated and blaming me?

I'm finding lately that there is so much richness to be tapped in the normal everyday things.

Not to discount those amazing moments. The are part of the tapestry of life, and beautiful and inspiring. I think the thing with them is grasping at them is part of what blocks them, so there is natural feedback that stops the grasping for them.




To be honest, and, again, with no offense meant (trying to learn here), this is precisely why I'm skeptical towards yoga. I don't think it's really suited to what I see as "mysticism". Let me explain, so you can then help tell me where I'm perhaps mistaken.

When I say that these two sections of your writing can be contrasted, it's because they characterize the very different qualities of experience that I meant in my previous post about spirituality vs. mysticism.

You write that you are "now" "less drawn to the big expansive states and am more interested in bringing life and joy and love to the little details of my life. Can I enjoy washing the dishes? Can I listen to my friend with full attention? etc.

To be honest, yeah, I wouldn't consider that mysticism. And I think it's a conflation to associate "big expansive states" with pro-social things, like "can I find creative ways to respond to the weird political emails my dad sends me? Can I stay calm when the guy at work is frustrated and blaming me" and feel-good things like "washing the dishes".

Not to discount those earthly moments.

But they are not otherworldly. In this sense, I'm left more convinced than I was before that mysticism is very distinct from spirituality. I was criticized in my last post, but I think I raised a good point. These two ideas, although perhaps "cousins" of one another, are distinct categories of thought.

What concerns me is this... and, again, please point out where I'm wrong... I've noticed a trend. People use psychedelics, start feeling connected to the "Source", and then at some point stop, perhaps because they think "they get it" and that (wrongly) "the message" can never be lost, they then go full Alan Watts and feel that they need to "hang up the phone when you get the message", stop taking the mystical medicine, and then find joy in things like yoga and quiet meditation. I note now that you are less interested in "big expansive states" but more interested in "the little details". Something is obviously just not "clicking" with it for me. I'm not interested in the little details, but only interested in "big expansive states". To me, that's mysticism. Although, to be fair, it does seem like your early retreat days did give you full blown mystical feelings.

Are you currently taking psychedelics?

I think there's this thing called "spiritual amnesia" that we suffer with. "Spiritual amnesia" is the forgetting of mystical knowledge after "returning" from psychedelics, when the medicine "wears off". Psychonauts, myself included, make the mistake that the knowledge in mystical experience, once gained, is impossible to lose, but surely by the next morning, the experience is just a distant memory. What concerns me is when people aren't aware of this. Essentially, what I'm saying is a very pro-drug message. Psychedelics treat spiritual loss, just as antipsychotics treat psychosis. They're tools to altering the mind. I don't think there's any substitute for them. A lot of people insist on meditation and yoga, but if your statements about interest in the "little things" and not "big expansive states" are to be weighed, I'm not convinced meditation or yoga is a sufficient treatment for spiritual amnesia. I think a better treatment for spiritual amensia would be occasional (not frequent) use of entheogens.

Where am I mistaken?


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: solarshroomster] * 1
    #28609725 - 01/04/24 05:31 PM (23 days, 13 hours ago)

"Are people reliably having visionary experiences on meditation and yoga? What am I missing?"

I think a foundation is made in times of urgent need which I did in my thirties. I knew I needed or had certain desire to meet a yogi in person and take initiation, and continued with retreats with them for about a decade. I was having experiences from following books before that as well.

Boredom is part of it in concentration in the beginning, and repetition bears fruit where earnestness is possible. Sometimes there won't be sincerity, and people say there must be. I think it is quite valuable to have the will to persist even if there is neither good concentration nor much sincerity.

A most valuable time imo is persisting in those moments you feel you are done as that is when patterns are formed among the tendencies most likely to obstruct them. On the other hand, it is good to be pretty clean, like not hung over or something. If I've had too much coffee, or got stoned, I tend to avoid formal practice.

Here's an example that happens to me and similarly I believe with others, especially if it's been a while since practicing. I begin things and am challenged by a sense of unworthiness, and depending on how bad I've been, a sense of futility and ridiculosity, then like biting the bullet and taking the punishment from the guilt and crap, and persisting nevertheless, because there is no judgement in the temple as it were.


Edited by syncro (01/04/24 05:35 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
    #28609754 - 01/04/24 05:55 PM (23 days, 13 hours ago)

I don't feel I integrate well with life, socially too much, but I have always been pretty easy going and get along with people. Practice for me is profound and is hard to balance.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleconnectedcosmos
Neti Neti
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28610479 - 01/05/24 12:40 PM (22 days, 18 hours ago)

Yoga is me attempting to quit nicotine using all the techniques in the bag ... chanting , introspection , philosophy - hellacious amounts of cannabis

It's not easy :lol:

Day 2


--------------------


54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: connectedcosmos]
    #28610664 - 01/05/24 03:15 PM (22 days, 15 hours ago)

Luck to you! I'm needing to do that myself, again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesolarshroomster
Wonderer
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
    #28610726 - 01/05/24 03:56 PM (22 days, 15 hours ago)

Good luck to you as well connectedcosmos. Hang in there. My Dad was a smoker for 20-some years; it's possible.


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: solarshroomster] * 1
    #28610772 - 01/05/24 04:48 PM (22 days, 14 hours ago)

It needs to be replaced with something purifying, ideally. I'm confident I can do it increasing practices, but work is going to be heavy in the coming days (excuses). I've done it before with a weight training program which included running - smoking when younger. Now it's tobaccoless pouches at least, just with the carcinogenic flavor additives etc.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesolarshroomster
Wonderer
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro] * 2
    #28610888 - 01/05/24 06:51 PM (22 days, 12 hours ago)

Look, sorry, to anyone again who I offended by throwing shade on meditation and yoga. It does seem like there's enough evidence to suggest that they can lead to powerful states of consciousness. To me, my ignorance was that enthogens expand my mind so much, that I can't conceive of anything expanding it more. I would be shocked if it can just be cultivated by sitting in a certain posture and performing some ritual, but the fact is that a decent number of people have come to me and told me about their experiences in meditation and, I'm glad to concede that it can cause mystical experience. So, I can't just discount because I myself have not gotten such an experience from it. I'll personally be sticking with entheogens, but I mean no disrespect towards anyone who gets mysticism through other means.


--------------------
Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."


Edited by solarshroomster (01/05/24 06:51 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreedom
Pigment of your imagination
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 38 minutes
Re: What is yoga? [Re: solarshroomster] * 5
    #28611027 - 01/05/24 09:45 PM (22 days, 9 hours ago)

What you're missing is that the mundane is not separate from the mystical. That bringing love and kindness into daily life is both a practice and a fruit of 'the mystical'. Through practice, the 'mystical' becomes ordinary, and the ordinary becomes mystical. It becomes obvious, everything is a miracle.

What blocks it is preconceptions. A psychedelic can give you a glimpse because it temporarily blocks your preconceptions, but once the drug wears off, they come right back.

The difference between taking a psychedelic and walking a path of practice is like the difference between visiting a beautiful temple once in a while vs turning every atom of existence into a beautiful temple.

You can't chase states either way though. Tollerence builds too fast to be tripping in a mystical state all the time. Grasping and seeking mystical states will keep them away.

So I learn to appreciate them when they appear, and appreciate what else appears when it appears. Even difficult things become an opportunity to learn and to let go of the habits of mind that block seeing things clearly. And yes, I still take psychedelics.

Most people don't want to let go of what needs to be let go of. Which is everything. The funny thing is you never had it to begin with... :smile:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: solarshroomster] * 1
    #28611169 - 01/06/24 03:09 AM (22 days, 3 hours ago)

With all the wonderful facets and means, it comes down to ceasing/subduing conceptual thought.

Stillness, silence has levels. This is commonly seen in moments of wonder.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro] * 1
    #28611260 - 01/06/24 05:37 AM (22 days, 1 hour ago)

Yoga is the understanding of all things.

Esoteric Binah. Scratch the woods. Insifil.

Leaves and extensions.

Esoteric numerology.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesyncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 14 minutes, 16 seconds
Re: What is yoga? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #28611292 - 01/06/24 06:25 AM (22 days, 34 minutes ago)

I ran across Burroughs', 'Language is a virus from outer space.' lol

Not to knock the language we use here in trying to reach beyond it. Why are we trying to reach beyond it? Open question.

Because engaging in concepts is generally dukkha, not of peace, our natural state?

I had started a post around observations in agency. In that I had noticed that fearlessness can tend to remove the sense of it. It was going into the love or fear principle.

Also into the matrix, Matrika, which is the alphabet, and the creatrix.


Edited by syncro (01/06/24 06:28 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Yoga
( 1 2 3 all )
Platinum 6,033 59 02/20/10 04:13 PM
by nowwhoutthink
* I Decided On Yoga appleorange 1,194 14 04/04/08 11:39 AM
by eve69
* Raja/Astanga Yoga ChiefGreenLeaf 1,224 8 08/16/07 09:42 PM
by tekramrepus
* Qigong & Yoga appleorange 1,355 8 04/12/08 03:18 PM
by fazdazzle
* Yoga Nidra leery11 783 3 09/06/06 10:21 PM
by leery11
* I Love Yoga! Chronic7 1,210 17 03/04/10 03:24 PM
by deff
* Bhakti Yoga leery11 1,366 16 08/06/08 02:51 PM
by lines
* Yoga, A science channeled by shrooms? Slapux 1,731 12 11/26/08 09:04 PM
by jonathanseagull

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
523 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.023 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.