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InvisiblePurple sunset
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Registered: 02/14/21
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: stubb]
    #28607193 - 01/02/24 02:19 PM (26 days, 39 minutes ago)

Shrooms themselves can be pretty wild

Where I ate a pocket full of really strong shrooms in the city and literally became the craziest person on the street just a few months ago

At a point stumbling around laughing like a insain person. Where all of these addicts thought I was nuts

I've never laughed so hard in my life full out blasting all through the dark in the worst part of the city. under bridges walking around the city for hours on train tracks all through the dark and the streets

It was the most stimulating trip I've ever had and I couldn't stop moving and walking and i was not chilled out. I had a skateboard that made me feel really good and safe. A rushing primitive violence took over where I couldn't stop walking hard with insain energy

Some dude came and asked us for money and I just laughed my head off at him screaming in laughter. Where he took off. It was literally psychotic and probably scary but I didn't care and thought it was the funniest thing ever

A rushing insain psychotic energy took over

Something about walking through grass in the dark on shrooms where it was this place again. It felt like the ocean

Ran like a rapid dog down alleyways laughing and laughing

When the high wore off I was sad and wanted it again

Walking through all these wet boxes in circles covering my face laughing trying to stop


A week later another friend and I went to get a pack of smokes. As he parked his van. Two people came stumbling from behind the store out of the dark from a neighborhood. At first I thought maybe they ate shrooms. Until we seen their faces. The whole store was homeless drug addicts and they were giving each other coins and helping each other out with their faces all rotting

They all thought I was nuts when I ate all those shrooms

After I told my friend who is recovered from meth that I thought they were on shrooms for a minute and he laughed as if shrooms wouldn't make you stumble or crazy. Until I told him about eating that pocket. He was like what It's not something you'd expect from me.

Shrooms can be wild or I think I might be a little bit psychotic myself. I have no idea how many I ate but it was a whole back pocket full randomly one night. Another friend ate some with me and he seen this


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: stubb]
    #28607199 - 01/02/24 02:23 PM (26 days, 35 minutes ago)

Quote:

stubb said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
Crime is a social issue in the vast majority of cases.




Yet you chalk your privilage up to 'luck'.
Good thing the poor, lesser fortunate, uneducated masses have you looking out for them.
:begone:



Yeah, loads of my friends went to prison, I'm pretty fkn lucky. I didn't finish junior high even. But probably because I'm "privileged" I should not give a fuck about societal issues. Right?

Maybe I should take on pathetic apathy and antagonism as a primary attitude, try to cut down anyone who brings attention to important issues. Seems like a legitimate standpoint.


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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Invisiblestubb
Dahg Rastubfari
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607205 - 01/02/24 02:27 PM (26 days, 31 minutes ago)

Apparently. You're the most antagonistic shroomery member on the tip of my tongue, and you clearly have no clue about the issue. :shrug:


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: stubb] * 2
    #28607207 - 01/02/24 02:28 PM (26 days, 31 minutes ago)

Ad hominem... no point, just noise. :thumbdown:


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Registered: 09/30/11
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607226 - 01/02/24 02:35 PM (26 days, 23 minutes ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
For those who even suggest being soft on crime as an alternative to being hard on crime you are being just as dumb as the stupid mfkers who suggested being hard on crime in the first place.




... aren't you saying we should be softer on crime?  Your title is "why "tough on crime" makes society worse"... so that alludes to you are wanting us to be softer on it... if not, then maybe you should make the distinction clearer.




How much clearer do I have to be about rehabilitation models? I can't write the everything in the whole thread title. I did not suggest at any time that we just start letting criminals go because crime is okay, it's not. This thread is about the perpetuation of violence and how to stop it.





Ahhh okay.  So you're saying we should be softer on criminals after they've been put in prison, not on arresting criminals for breaking laws, gotcha.  Yea that's definitely logical and the right way forward.




Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
"Bad people" are actually very rare creatures.




I wish I lived in the reality you lived in because I see loads of bad people in this world.



What you see is your judgement of people. You don't see someone's mother, father, son, daughter... you fail to see the human and realise that they have basic emotional needs that have been grossly overlooked that are causing them to behave the way they do.

They are not bad in the sense that they cannot help themselves but kill and rape, they are simply social fuckups who have no base-line normal.

You would think right that less crime means less people in prison? Here's a telling graph. Note the big fall off with the rona at the far right.






Well, yea, to label someone as "bad" you have to judge them, right?  I don't care if someone is a mother, father, son, or daughter; I look at the person/human and what they do.  I understand how humans have needs.  I am a human and can relate.  People need to stop having sex if they aren't ready to have kids, that would probably curb a lot of crime.


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:rave::rave::rave: I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ; :raver2::raver2::raver2::raveface:


Edited by lifeiswhatyoumake (01/02/24 02:36 PM)


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner] * 2
    #28607231 - 01/02/24 02:36 PM (26 days, 22 minutes ago)

I see it as cycles of trauma. Punishment is part of that cycle. I think if we want people to learn to be accountable, we need to offer them opportunities as well.

I think we can keep bank robbers out of banks without punishing them. Or their children.


The drug war is insane. We love drugs, then pretend we hate drugs. So our solution is to buy our drugs from violent gangs and cartels, then we have the police go after the gangs to stop them from selling the drugs we love. Then the police become paranoid because there are violent gang members all around that they have to be on alert for. And of course the drugs we use are far more dangerous because we've decided its bad to buy them from pharmacists or have the FDA make sure they're pure.

I went to jail once, was facing some pretty bad charges. It was amazing, I could see how getting that label, going through the ritual of the court system, and potentially having that on my record would have actually turned me into a criminal. 3 of my careers would have ended in an instant, the volunteering i did would have ended, and if I was convicted, my plan was to become a clandestine chemist since all my legitimate opportunities would have ended.

I think the idea of good and bad people is terrible, it elevates ourselves and puts down others and both sides of that are wrong.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: stubb]
    #28607236 - 01/02/24 02:38 PM (26 days, 20 minutes ago)

Quote:

stubb said:
Quote:

Northerner said:For those who even suggest being soft on crime as an alternative to being hard on crime you are being just as dumb as the stupid mfkers who suggested being hard on crime in the first place.



How very convenient. :lol:




I think it is projected that people feel safer with the idea of punishing. Creating a false sense of security . And fulfilling a desire to punish.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
    #28607243 - 01/02/24 02:48 PM (26 days, 11 minutes ago)

Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
Quote:

lifeiswhatyoumake said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
For those who even suggest being soft on crime as an alternative to being hard on crime you are being just as dumb as the stupid mfkers who suggested being hard on crime in the first place.




... aren't you saying we should be softer on crime?  Your title is "why "tough on crime" makes society worse"... so that alludes to you are wanting us to be softer on it... if not, then maybe you should make the distinction clearer.




How much clearer do I have to be about rehabilitation models? I can't write the everything in the whole thread title. I did not suggest at any time that we just start letting criminals go because crime is okay, it's not. This thread is about the perpetuation of violence and how to stop it.





Ahhh okay.  So you're saying we should be softer on criminals after they've been put in prison, not on arresting criminals for breaking laws, gotcha.  Yea that's definitely logical and the right way forward.




It's not about being softer, it's about not perpetuating violence on them. This issue is about our society, not about revenge. At some point we are harming our communities.

I'm not suggesting new things, all the ideas I'm putting forward are well documented.


https://medium.com/@nicholaswinfield93/why-the-tough-on-crime-narrative-needs-to-change-15ed877a6754

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2023/09/21/being-tough-on-crime-is-easy-but-doesnt-work.html

https://thecrimereport.org/2015/06/09/2015-06-why-tough-on-crime-failed/

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/failure-get-tough-crime-policy

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/business-law/do-harsher-punishments-deter-crime

There's pages and pages of this stuff on Google, I just grabbed a few links, it's well known. Yet somehow the mindset of people is so hard to change on this topic.


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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607262 - 01/02/24 03:03 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

We need more resources, education, and assist low income families.
There are so many mentally ill people incarcerated. And never get treatment.


Edited by loladoreen (01/02/24 03:03 PM)


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607267 - 01/02/24 03:04 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

We've dehumanized so many people.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607268 - 01/02/24 03:05 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

SOOOOOOOOO many people.

One of the things I tell my grandsons when someone says bad, bad people or bad kid.
People do bad things, they are not bad.

Do I 100% believe there are no bad people? No
I think they are a very very small percentage.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner] * 3
    #28607279 - 01/02/24 03:11 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

And apologies for seeming a bit ranty, you guys know I can get like that when I get on a topic I feel strongly about. It's because I care, I really care, about you guys, my community, everyone, and severe injustices like this really rile me up.  :peace:


--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: loladoreen]
    #28607282 - 01/02/24 03:13 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

I like to make friends with people at the 'edges' because part of the problem is they are so often excluded from the rest of society.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607285 - 01/02/24 03:16 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

That is SO true!!!!!!
When I was interning some of the people at my internship would treat the people that came into see me like they had leprosy. Like addiction was a contagious disease. Or mental health was contagious.
One girl kept saying we are going to get robbed.
WTF
20+ years and I have never been robbed or harmed by someone I helped that I work with.
It is disgusting how they are treated.
And the crazy part is ... they are daily drinkers but that is more socially acceptable...
the hypocrisy is real


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Invisiblestubb
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607287 - 01/02/24 03:17 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Ad hominem... no point, just noise. :thumbdown:




You're absolutely right, no point other than that I think you're a sanctimonious asshole. Merely my opinion.
"No skin off my cult", as nate would say. :thumbup:


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner] * 2
    #28607292 - 01/02/24 03:22 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
And apologies for seeming a bit ranty, you guys know I can get like that when I get on a topic I feel strongly about. It's because I care, I really care, about you guys, my community, everyone, and severe injustices like this really rile me up.  :peace:





:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2: Your passion on this subject is respectable.  :rockon::rockon::rockon::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


--------------------
:rave::rave::rave: I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ; :raver2::raver2::raver2::raveface:


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607298 - 01/02/24 03:30 PM (25 days, 23 hours ago)

Sincerely, very respectable.
It is respectable to reply with grace and intelligence.
Shows who you are as a person.
I appreciate a good conversation.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: stubb]
    #28607414 - 01/02/24 04:50 PM (25 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

stubb said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
Ad hominem... no point, just noise. :thumbdown:




You're absolutely right, no point other than that I think you're a sanctimonious asshole. Merely my opinion.
"No skin off my cult", as nate would say. :thumbup:



You are really arrogant and holier than thou.  It’s always the morons who registered in the last 5 years who think they’ve “understood it”.

Words of advice for topics like this?  Don’t be contrarian and insulting when you can’t even provide an alternative solution or adequate response other than “lulz, would never work,” to the topic.  Fuckin idiot


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
    #28607418 - 01/02/24 04:54 PM (25 days, 22 hours ago)

One of the most repetitive things I did was try to find housing for just released prisoners. Released and nowhere to go and no one will take them.... but the trap house will take them.
A few slept on the streets instead of going back to their old environment. When it got below zero, I am sure they went back to stay alive.
It is a very difficult cycle to break.


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: stubb]
    #28607420 - 01/02/24 04:55 PM (25 days, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

stubb said:
Exactly.

The argument about being lenient on crime is insane to me because seems we're largely debating fair prison treatment of people who commited imaginary crimes that shouldn't warrant punishment and who don't belong in prison in the first place. :shrug:



This response solidifies how simple your mind is.  This is not the topic, it’s not about “imaginary crimes.”

It also isn’t in anyway suggesting we rehab serial rapists and murderers.  Is stealing imaginary?  No it’s not.  Should it be legal?  No it shouldn’t.  Is there a difference between a hungry unskilled person stealing stuff for food and rent and a sociopath who steals millions in pensions and benefits?  Big time, but we let the rich fucks off while “being tough on crime” so morons like you can feel vindicated when you read a news story about a person you’ve never met doing something you weren’t there to witness


--------------------


sunshine said:
The order has to be secret and no one is sure.


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