|
Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,139
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 14 minutes, 12 seconds
|
Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. 11
#28606490 - 01/01/24 09:37 PM (26 days, 17 hours ago) |
|
|
It may seem like being tough on crime would deter people from committing crimes, but in a forum like this where the vast majority of us are "criminals" because of our lifestyle choices and that it doesn't deter us at all, it should be easier to understand the greater implications of why being "tough on crime" harms us all.
First... People don't want to be thieves, drug addicts and disorderly people. People want to feel loved, safe and secure. It's the most disadvantaged, traumatised and uneducated who end up being hit with the hardest penalties. By further being tough on them, by refusing access to education, by refusing access to family and friends, by refusing access to skills building work, by denormalizing and holding in cells like animals we make the situation for these people even worse.
When they get out they now have no friends or family left, no job, no money, no education, no skills and have been held like an animal for years whilst being fed the poorest of food in violent situations... then noone even wants to give them a job or a place to live... and no surprise, tne recidivism rates are extraordinarily high.
Sure the war on drugs has slightly worsened the situation, along with privatised prisons, but these aren't the true problem. The problem is violence. The lunacy that perpetuating violence on people who have broken the law will somehow make them good people is truly insane. Does that work with dogs? Why the hell do lawmakers think that will work with people? Why do people vote for lawmakers who claim that they are going to create suffering and violence on people by being "tough on crime", when in time those same people are going to be our neighbours and community members?
US prison guards experience PTSD at a higher rate than the military. This is an indicator of how bad it really is, and where the system is truly broken.
It's easy to blame criminals for being bad, but it's even harder to deny the responsibility our society has for stomping them into the ground and making them what they are whilst providing no real way to get out. A terrible cost financially and socially, just because it sounds good to people who don't really consider what the implications are of harming their own communities for revenge.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
|
CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,532
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 minutes, 51 seconds
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606512 - 01/01/24 10:01 PM (26 days, 16 hours ago) |
|
|
I think the city should open up more soup kitchens to help folks so that way they won't have to do crime in the first place
|
Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,139
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 14 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
Education and integration is the way to lift people out of poverty and desperation. A full belly only last a few hours, knowledge and skills lasts a lifetime.
"About 75% of State prison inmates, almost 59% of Federal inmates, and 69% of jail inmates did not complete high school"
https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/ecp.pdf
People might think it unfair that people in prison would get free education and even free college, but the reality is that that is a much cheaper way of fixing the problem than keeping them in prison. At some point people need to realise that violence does not solve the issue, that it only makes it worse. That by lifting those who have made mistakes up and giving them a fresh start we can save a whole generation after them from a similar fate, instead of plunging them into poverty and desperation which just perpetuates the cycle.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
|
CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,532
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 minutes, 51 seconds
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606555 - 01/02/24 12:06 AM (26 days, 14 hours ago) |
|
|
I meant soup for the soul
|
stubb
Dahg Rastubfari


Registered: 03/23/19
Posts: 1,310
Loc: Memory
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606562 - 01/02/24 12:19 AM (26 days, 14 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Northerner said:US prison guards experience PTSD at a higher rate than the military.
No shit. The vast majority of US military personnel hold non-combative domestic occupations, of course a prison CO at FMC Fort Worth is more likely to experience PTSD than a janitor at Forth Worth airbase.
--------------------
|
Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,139
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 14 minutes, 12 seconds
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: stubb]
#28606573 - 01/02/24 12:50 AM (26 days, 14 hours ago) |
|
|
PTSD rates in prison guards is 35-50%, compared to 5-20% of deployed service people.
Prison guards take their own lives at twice the rate of the general public and police officers.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
|
lifeiswhatyoumake
Trance in my sig n blood



Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,711
Last seen: 1 hour, 4 minutes
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606580 - 01/02/24 01:17 AM (26 days, 13 hours ago) |
|
|
Can't a lot of prisoners read books if they want to? Like they're available in the prison?
--------------------
  I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ;   
|
thirtygoats

Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 1,985
Last seen: 2 days, 9 hours
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606583 - 01/02/24 01:19 AM (26 days, 13 hours ago) |
|
|
When the government is wrong about something, they don't admit it or do anything that respectable people would do. They just try to convince everyone that the truth is a lie. Government = A bunch of ugly, unhealthy, fat, stupid, ignorant, psychopathic retards. They're worse than the criminals in society. In this news article about 4 teens using HHC (Basically another cannabinoid found in Cannabis) at school and then requiring "medical treatment" because of it, they said that "in order to get high from the product, a large amount of it must be consumed, leading to many people taking too much and suffering side effects" which couldn't be further from the truth.
I bought 10 grams of pure HHC distillate before, and to get high, I only needed an utterly TINY piece of the distillate to get... well, not THAT high, but I was definitely high and could get super absorbed into playing a game on the computer and feel really good for probably maybe 30 minutes... just from that tiny piece, which created a huge hit, and the coughing was probably the worst I've ever experienced from smoking anything. I mean I've smoked H off foil during my addiction over 2 years ago, and I didn't cough even once through the whole session of smoking the H, so I don't really know why the HHC made me cough. I was using a pretty big torch to heat a glass nail and do that whole thing with the cool bong setup. It must have been the way the smoke was produced or something along those lines... because this stuff was pure HHC... nothing else in it that would be poisonous to my lungs and cause me to uncontrollably cough for like an hour, worse than when I had a cough when I was sick.
Anyway, that 10 grams of pure HHC lasted me like 2 months. When I read that article, I felt like the government is a bunch of braindead fools who are addicted to bullshit that makes them weak and unhealthy and unable to understand anything, because it's very likely that HHC would get banned because some young people don't understand drugs, therefore the people who can use drugs responsibly have to deal with not being able to get any drugs because of those idiots, so then society just gets worse and worse, everyone becoming dumber, unhealthier, etc., all thinking like animals.
Also, let's just ignore the big elephant in the room and try to ignore the fact that the current generation invented artificial intelligence in the middle of a pandemic, a drug epidemic, and all kinds of crazy bullshit going on, and artificial intelligence is supposed to be as big of an invention as like electricity (felt kinda dumb when I said we "invented" electricity, but then not so dumb when I googled "greatest inventions" and "Electricity" was the first one on the list) like it's going to change the whole world completely for the better. This generation, not the war-obsessed generation, not the last few generations that always complain about how this generation doesn't contribute and shit like that.
Edited by thirtygoats (01/02/24 01:51 AM)
|
CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts

Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 22,532
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 minutes, 51 seconds
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: thirtygoats] 1
#28606585 - 01/02/24 01:29 AM (26 days, 13 hours ago) |
|
|
Well thats insane and completely untrue. Don't know many criminals do you? Anyway where I live we went super soft on crime and were finding out that doesn't really workout either. Obviously end the drug war and stuff but we can't just let criminal people just do whatever they want and get off Scottish free hurting folks
|
Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,139
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 14 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
If you think anything I have said is untrue look it up for yourself. I didn't rewrite the whole internet.
1 in 20 US citizens are incarcerated in their lives, 1 in 7 white men, 1 in 4 black men, you are literally surrounded by criminals, all the time, every day.
Rehabilitation is not soft on crime, it's just not perpetuating the cycle of violence. Not the same thing.
If being tough on crime works why are there so many criminals? Why is the recidivism rate 78% over 7 years? Do you really believe American citizens are just generally much worse people than anyone else in the whole world?
Quote:
lifeiswhatyoumake said: Can't a lot of prisoners read books if they want to? Like they're available in the prison?
Yeah but that's not education, it's not a way to step up and be able to offer something of value, earn a living, make a life, be a productive part of society with a real future.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
|
Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,139
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 14 minutes, 12 seconds
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner] 6
#28606606 - 01/02/24 03:09 AM (26 days, 11 hours ago) |
|
|
I know this topic is heady and difficult, but the only reason I'm not one of those with a destroyed life, broken family, no opportunity, psychological scars and living in poverty is because I'm lucky. In previous times in my life I've posessed enough drugs for the system to decide that I should no longer have a future... But the implication of me having nothing ever again would be that I would have nothing to lose. I would have gone from a person who likes to get harmlessly fucked up to being a danger to everyone around me out of pure desperation.
That could have been you. And even worse imagine if that was your parents who now can only ever provide you with the foundation of destroyed life, broken family, psychological scars, resentment and poverty... with no unexceptional way out.
Beware of politicians who promise you tough on crime, they promise brutality so cruel that it makes healthy people sick just to witness it. Terrible violence and depravity against your fellow citizens, most of them who just made a mistake and were never truly a threat to you and yours. The twisted irony being that over time all it does is make crime worse.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
|
mongo lloyd
Lone Free Ranger



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 9,351
Loc: UK
Last seen: 3 days, 10 minutes
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606610 - 01/02/24 03:22 AM (26 days, 11 hours ago) |
|
|
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time
--------------------
|
Milleresque
Stranger

Registered: 04/10/22
Posts: 326
Last seen: 2 days, 2 hours
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: mongo lloyd] 4
#28606615 - 01/02/24 03:50 AM (26 days, 11 hours ago) |
|
|
^says someone posting on shroomery.
Ever have a psychedelic experience on public or shared land “mongo”?
Northerner, terrific topic mate. “Drug related violence”—that nebulous and top tier attractant for piraña journalists; the whole landscape of gun violence, kidnapping, backstabbing, paranoia, and all manner of adrenalised lunacy… ….the root cause of it is the fact of its prohibition. The laughable war. It has done nothing but propagate and perpetuate generational trauma, stigmatise dependency, demonise the sovereign right to alter one’s own consciousness—not to mention the racial targeting of entire segments of a population, followed once in a strange while by sourcing funds from those countrymen addicted to the drugs you sell them, to pay for the armaments and training of deathsquads in a South American nation.
Tough on crime in the sense of tough on self sovereignty when it comes to substance use creates well, look at our yearbook.
Edited by Milleresque (01/02/24 03:58 AM)
|
deucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,594
Loc: UK
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner] 1
#28606631 - 01/02/24 05:01 AM (26 days, 9 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Northerner said: Education and integration is the way to lift people out of poverty and desperation. A full belly only last a few hours, knowledge and skills lasts a lifetime.
"About 75% of State prison inmates, almost 59% of Federal inmates, and 69% of jail inmates did not complete high school"
https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/ecp.pdf
The level of Dyslexia might have something to do with it. I came across this snippet (short) Yesterday:
I wonder how far something like this might explain why the rate of imprisonment and recidivism in the UK, the highest in Europe, and US, the highest in the western world, is so high.
-------------------- whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows... it's a bugger to cycle in. even though I'm feeling good Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule
|
loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,332
|
|
Quote:
lifeiswhatyoumake said: Can't a lot of prisoners read books if they want to? Like they're available in the prison?
With pages torn out
--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,372
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 21 hours, 21 minutes
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: loladoreen]
#28606678 - 01/02/24 06:45 AM (26 days, 8 hours ago) |
|
|
Not much in the name of reform huh?
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,332
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner] 2
#28606679 - 01/02/24 06:47 AM (26 days, 8 hours ago) |
|
|
I wish I was on my laptop so I could write more freely.
This is a subject I am educated, passionate about. And personal to me. Not only do I work with this population. I became personally affected when my son got in the system. He is currently in jail waiting to go to prison. And I write about 5 people I met through him in prison.
The general public is unaware of the reality of prison. The programs are not accessible. They never have the staff. And few programs.
Prison creates more trauma for people who were traumatized before going in. Creating a cycle.
Drugs in prison are cheaper and more accessible than outside of prison. Many use, I would say the majority. Its an escape and coping mechanism.
I started doing prison reform work when I got a view of the life inside. People were locked down in a cell for 3 days straight without water. Without access to anything.
Our criminal system is to punish not offer rehabilitation. Prison sentences are extremely long for crimes that are side effects of poverty, addiction and lifestyle. Each case is unique but the majority has an underlying tone of not having facts.
Areas that have decriminalized drugs statistically see an increase in use, and crime before seeing the crime and use drop dramatically. Resources available assist with this. Where I live the law passed before the resources became available. Creating problems.
Where I live methadone is available 2 hours away. Shelter is 2 hours away. SUD services are 2 hours away. There are no resources.
The families become victims. Primarily the children. Foster children are sleeping in offices because there's nowhere for them to go. Thats an entire other issue.
People need help not jail/prison. Some need to be incarcerated.
Prison is filled with people suffering from schizophrenia. I was astonished at how many. And don't receive help inside or out.
--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
|
stubb
Dahg Rastubfari


Registered: 03/23/19
Posts: 1,310
Loc: Memory
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606684 - 01/02/24 06:50 AM (26 days, 8 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Northerner said: PTSD rates in prison guards is 35-50%, compared to 5-20% of deployed service people.
Prison guards take their own lives at twice the rate of the general public and police officers.
My dad was deployed during Vietnam in Germany. Half the kids I went to school with in Japan were there on deployment with their parents. And I'm not sure how prison guards taking their own lives supports your argument.
I grew up with affluent people who could afford to stay out of prison and received educations. Many of them belong in prison.
--------------------
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,372
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 21 hours, 21 minutes
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: loladoreen] 1
#28606685 - 01/02/24 06:53 AM (26 days, 8 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
loladoreen said: I wish I was on my laptop so I could write more freely.
This is a subject I am educated, passionate about. And personal to me. Not only do I work with this population. I became personally affected when my son got in the system. He is currently in jail waiting to go to prison. And I write about 5 people I met through him in prison.
The general public is unaware of the reality of prison. The programs are not accessible. They never have the staff. And few programs.
Prison creates more trauma for people who were traumatized before going in. Creating a cycle.
Drugs in prison are cheaper and more accessible than outside of prison. Many use, I would say the majority. Its an escape and coping mechanism.
I started doing prison reform work when I got a view of the life inside. People were locked down in a cell for 3 days straight without water. Without access to anything.
Our criminal system is to punish not offer rehabilitation. Prison sentences are extremely long for crimes that are side effects of poverty, addiction and lifestyle. Each case is unique but the majority has an underlying tone of not having facts.
Areas that have decriminalized drugs statistically see an increase in use, and crime before seeing the crime and use drop dramatically. Resources available assist with this. Where I live the law passed before the resources became available. Creating problems.
Where I live methadone is available 2 hours away. Shelter is 2 hours away. SUD services are 2 hours away. There are no resources.
The families become victims. Primarily the children. Foster children are sleeping in offices because there's nowhere for them to go. Thats an entire other issue.
People need help not jail/prison. Some need to be incarcerated.
Prison is filled with people suffering from schizophrenia. I was astonished at how many. And don't receive help inside or out.
That sounds like real talk. Some people even create imaginative ideas for prisons under the ocean like Aquacor. Definitely stay away from that place
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,332
|
Re: Why "tough on crime" makes society worse. [Re: Northerner]
#28606713 - 01/02/24 07:36 AM (26 days, 7 hours ago) |
|
|
I just last week had a friend all about a job inside a prison near me. Pay is average but the opportunity appeared inviting. Ive worked in county and tribal jails. Never had an issue. Except watching abuse of CO's to inmates. Ive also worked with sex offenders- had no problems. I called a friend of mine who worked there. She left after her CO supervisor threatened her with sleep with me or I release you to inmates. She said the inmates were fine her fear was always the CO's. She was often trapped and assaulted by them. Stalked outside of work by CO's. I am not interested. I think I am best helping outside. The CO's are predominantly worse than inmates.
|
|