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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Lion] * 3
    #28606882 - 01/02/24 10:29 AM (26 days, 3 hours ago)

Culture emerges from biology. It isn't some synthetic thing superimposed on our inherent nature; it's downstream of our genetic characteristics.

What leads you to this conclusion? When I look at biology I see obvious connections to the environment in which that biology exists, yet biology does not directly control. Which strongly indicates to me that biology is not 1-directional, imposing a downstream flow, but rather multi-directional with lots of give and take, dynamism, and change.

A moth that develops spots in response to soot on trees seems to be a response to changes in the environment. It's biology followed environmental changes, not the other way around. Saying that biology created the spots is technically accurate, they are a biological feature, but it really neglects the way other factors are entwined in such an arising.

Culture is likewise entwined with environment. One cannot say city life is the same as living on a farm, or in the jungle. Nor are the cultures of the many varied environments on Earth the same. If culture emerges from biology alone, why would this be?

Living in industrialized societies for example leads to changes in reproductive practices. This is visible amongst immigrants. Why would moving into a new cultural lead to changes in "fundamental" biological processes, if biology is driving culture?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Freedom] * 1
    #28606937 - 01/02/24 11:05 AM (26 days, 2 hours ago)

Maybe? We don't typically call animal survival behaviors culture?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Lion] * 1
    #28606946 - 01/02/24 11:21 AM (26 days, 2 hours ago)

I find the distinction between biology and environment suspect at scale. A moth developing spots is trying to hide from predators. But it developed spots because of tree coloration changing. Where does the biological imperative begin, and the environmental one take over? Where did the environmental one begin to influence biology? It's way too mixed for such distinctions to be much more than arbitrary IMO

But if one is trying to cease a behavior, such arbitration, whether it is biological or environmental, can help lead to significant change.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Freedom]
    #28607001 - 01/02/24 12:06 PM (26 days, 1 hour ago)

@freedom
Could be the cultural sentiment around animals is changing as humanity gets new looks at itself. In college there was an entire psychology course dedicated to comparing humans to animals and trying to distinguish what makes humans unique. More often than not the studies lead to recognizing an ability an animal species possesses naturally that humans don't. It both highlighted our dependency on external tools but also how our creation and utilization of such tools leads to a greater understanding of the behaviors of other life. Understanding imo leads to a greater sense of connectedness.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Freedom]
    #28607024 - 01/02/24 12:20 PM (26 days, 1 hour ago)

Humans justify killing all sorts of ways. But a common one in recent times is to see the other as inferior, uncultured, unclean, and dangerous.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Nillion]
    #28607106 - 01/02/24 01:30 PM (26 days, 51 seconds ago)

I can show that the 8 fold path, the Bagua or 8 trigrams and the Ogdoad are all different versions of the same thing and can show how they diverged and developed from a single common culture a little over ten thousand years ago.

And what did that fork come from? :smile:

I think I remember you saying you're into the etymology of words. Do you think there is an actual origin point? Or do you think our conception of origin is more akin to rounding off pi to 3.14?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Nillion]
    #28607558 - 01/02/24 06:42 PM (25 days, 18 hours ago)

The 8 fold fork, so to speak, was just an example of material assumed to relate to archetypes classically that relates to a genetic, linguistic and cultural bottleneck that our species went though.

I understand the concept of a bottleneck but am having a difficult time picturing that in real world terms. What sort of genetic circumstances can you relate this to? Or linguistic? Or cultural?

And have these circumstances not occurred again since that time?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #28607630 - 01/02/24 07:33 PM (25 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
anthropological proof of origins in culture is harder to verify than proof that Trump is an insurrectionist, and that is patently obvious except to the severely demented.




Getting way off topic but here's my relation. Watched this to start the morning:



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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Are humans naturally acquisitive and always selfish? [Re: Nillion]
    #28607698 - 01/02/24 08:34 PM (25 days, 16 hours ago)

No worries, thanks for sharing what you did. I'm not questioning your character specifically but I had no reference knowledge of specific abnormalities in that time period


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
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