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solarshroomster
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What is yoga? 1
#28606196 - 01/01/24 05:54 PM (26 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Some people have seemed to recently take offense by my recent shade towards yoga. For those who have been hurt by my words, I'm sorry. The issue I've faced in my life is that a lot of these spiritual things seem so stupid on the surface, that I can't take it seriously (again, at first blush.) One of those things was mysticism. I thought it was stupid until I actually did it and it "clicked". So, I'm just wondering if I'm doing it with my initial, biased thoughts against yoga? So... with that, what is yoga? What am I missing?
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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solarshroomster
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: Nillion] 1
#28606226 - 01/01/24 06:12 PM (26 days, 12 hours ago) |
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That's fascinating. I'm definitely going to have to give that a read. If it's entheogenic in nature, count me in!
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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solarshroomster
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
#28606337 - 01/01/24 07:11 PM (26 days, 11 hours ago) |
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Wow! That's incredible. I'll have to look more into yoga, syncro and Nillion, ha. I'm curious what your all's thoughts are on this clip below? Someone posted it from r/NDE. You can read a little bit about it here: https://dowsers.com/walter-russell-books-descriptions-b/ ; Interested in your thoughts.redditmedia.com%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (01/01/24 07:26 PM)
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solarshroomster
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
#28606373 - 01/01/24 07:47 PM (26 days, 11 hours ago) |
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It looks pretty good. I was pretty impressed by the video. It seemed a little cultish (mostly due to length), but generally I thought it conveyed the message well.
Edited by solarshroomster (01/01/24 11:29 PM)
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solarshroomster
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
#28606699 - 01/02/24 07:20 AM (25 days, 23 hours ago) |
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I'm reading Nillion's reference. It's pretty good:
Yoga is the means of perceiving reality "In this system, yoga is the union of the self and the Lord" Yoga is said to be the oneness of one entity with another The union of apana and prana, one's own rajas and semen, the sun and moon, the individual Self and the supreme Self, and in the same way the union of all dualities, is called yoga
How am I to distinguish actual yoga from the yoga presented in the popular media?
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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solarshroomster
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: Freedom]
#28609596 - 01/04/24 03:46 PM (23 days, 15 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: I disagreed with you but didn't take offense (I think people often assume offence with disagreement, I just see it as people see things the way they see them because of their life experiences)
I don't know what yoga is, or anything is acutally lol. I can share some interesting expriences.
At one point I was meditating like 6 hours a day and also going to week long meditation retreats every 3 weeks. I was having some experiences where I started dissolving into the buzzing vibration of everything. I also started doing yoga just to stretch my body out, since all the sitting was kind of tough on it. To my suprise, the buzzing disolving would be much more intense after doing yoga, and eventually that buzzing disolving led to the self completely disolving into infinity. I wasn't expecting any other effect than hoping i could be more physically comfortable.
At another point I was looking at the sense of there being a line between me and the world, or inside and outside. In meditation had times where that line diasapeared and it was like I was a continuous space throughout all senses. I did both qi gong and yoga at this point (someone just showed me qi gong one day). To my surprise both practices helped me integrate the experience of continuous space into my daily life.
At another point my pracice had fallen behind, I wasn't meditating daily but went to a yoga class on a whim. To my surprise again I fell into a unity state where there was still a sense of self but that self was everything. That happened regularly for a month or two.
I also used to be skeptic about chakras until I did these practices a lot. Chakras aren't part of my tradition so that was really a surprise. Also have had some kundalini type phenomena that was also surprising.
I've also beein looking at things energetically which is hard to describe, but all body pracices as well as diet, sex and other stuff effects the energetic system in my body.
I've never formally studied yoga and don't even know what the official stance on it is from the various traditions it comes from.
Interesting... I like it! I still think entheogens are the way to go, but it sounds like there are other practices that can be valuable to others. Many people I know have vouched for meditation, but all I personally know from it is a broken back and boredom. I don't get it. I've never been able to attain anywhere close to a level of trance on them, but I'm not going to discount them be because I myself fail to get anything out of them.
Are people reliably having visionary experiences on meditation and yoga? What am I missing?
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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solarshroomster
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: Freedom]
#28609715 - 01/04/24 05:22 PM (23 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Okay, now I'm happy this topic of yoga and spirituality vs. mysticism was brought up. If I can, for the sake of learning, go back to my previous more oppositional attitude in this post... add: What's interesting to me is that your first paragraph
Quote:
For about 15 years I used psychedelics several times a year and valued them for the clarity they gave. Then I went to my first long meditation retreat. On the third day of the retreat the same clarity appeared, and suddenly I realized the point of what everyone there was doing was to learn to live with that in daily life. The prospect of living with that clarity in daily life became basically my highest priority. When I left the retreat that clarity lasted for a couple weeks, slowly fading out. I got to see the clarity function, relationships at work and home and even with strangers on the street changed in obvious ways.
Can be contrasted against your subsequent paragraphs
Quote:
I am now less drawn to the big expansive states and am more interested in bringing life and joy and love to the little details of my life. Can I enjoy washing the dishes? Can I listen to my friend with my full attention? Can I find creative ways to respond to the weird political emails my dad sends me? Can I stay calm when the guy at work is frustrated and blaming me?
I'm finding lately that there is so much richness to be tapped in the normal everyday things.
Not to discount those amazing moments. The are part of the tapestry of life, and beautiful and inspiring. I think the thing with them is grasping at them is part of what blocks them, so there is natural feedback that stops the grasping for them.
To be honest, and, again, with no offense meant (trying to learn here), this is precisely why I'm skeptical towards yoga. I don't think it's really suited to what I see as "mysticism". Let me explain, so you can then help tell me where I'm perhaps mistaken.
When I say that these two sections of your writing can be contrasted, it's because they characterize the very different qualities of experience that I meant in my previous post about spirituality vs. mysticism.
You write that you are "now" "less drawn to the big expansive states and am more interested in bringing life and joy and love to the little details of my life. Can I enjoy washing the dishes? Can I listen to my friend with full attention? etc.
To be honest, yeah, I wouldn't consider that mysticism. And I think it's a conflation to associate "big expansive states" with pro-social things, like "can I find creative ways to respond to the weird political emails my dad sends me? Can I stay calm when the guy at work is frustrated and blaming me" and feel-good things like "washing the dishes".
Not to discount those earthly moments.
But they are not otherworldly. In this sense, I'm left more convinced than I was before that mysticism is very distinct from spirituality. I was criticized in my last post, but I think I raised a good point. These two ideas, although perhaps "cousins" of one another, are distinct categories of thought.
What concerns me is this... and, again, please point out where I'm wrong... I've noticed a trend. People use psychedelics, start feeling connected to the "Source", and then at some point stop, perhaps because they think "they get it" and that (wrongly) "the message" can never be lost, they then go full Alan Watts and feel that they need to "hang up the phone when you get the message", stop taking the mystical medicine, and then find joy in things like yoga and quiet meditation. I note now that you are less interested in "big expansive states" but more interested in "the little details". Something is obviously just not "clicking" with it for me. I'm not interested in the little details, but only interested in "big expansive states". To me, that's mysticism. Although, to be fair, it does seem like your early retreat days did give you full blown mystical feelings.
Are you currently taking psychedelics?
I think there's this thing called "spiritual amnesia" that we suffer with. "Spiritual amnesia" is the forgetting of mystical knowledge after "returning" from psychedelics, when the medicine "wears off". Psychonauts, myself included, make the mistake that the knowledge in mystical experience, once gained, is impossible to lose, but surely by the next morning, the experience is just a distant memory. What concerns me is when people aren't aware of this. Essentially, what I'm saying is a very pro-drug message. Psychedelics treat spiritual loss, just as antipsychotics treat psychosis. They're tools to altering the mind. I don't think there's any substitute for them. A lot of people insist on meditation and yoga, but if your statements about interest in the "little things" and not "big expansive states" are to be weighed, I'm not convinced meditation or yoga is a sufficient treatment for spiritual amnesia. I think a better treatment for spiritual amensia would be occasional (not frequent) use of entheogens.
Where am I mistaken?
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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solarshroomster
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro]
#28610726 - 01/05/24 03:56 PM (22 days, 15 hours ago) |
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Good luck to you as well connectedcosmos. Hang in there. My Dad was a smoker for 20-some years; it's possible.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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solarshroomster
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Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: What is yoga? [Re: syncro] 2
#28610888 - 01/05/24 06:51 PM (22 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Look, sorry, to anyone again who I offended by throwing shade on meditation and yoga. It does seem like there's enough evidence to suggest that they can lead to powerful states of consciousness. To me, my ignorance was that enthogens expand my mind so much, that I can't conceive of anything expanding it more. I would be shocked if it can just be cultivated by sitting in a certain posture and performing some ritual, but the fact is that a decent number of people have come to me and told me about their experiences in meditation and, I'm glad to concede that it can cause mystical experience. So, I can't just discount because I myself have not gotten such an experience from it. I'll personally be sticking with entheogens, but I mean no disrespect towards anyone who gets mysticism through other means.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
Edited by solarshroomster (01/05/24 06:51 PM)
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