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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Freedom]
#28604864 - 12/31/23 04:47 PM (27 days, 14 hours ago) |
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It's not all or nothing, Kickle. I'm not saying that because there will be limited moderation on the subcategorization that that means there should be no moderation within the categories at all.
I get that change is hard. It suggests that what was happening in the past wasn't working out ideally. However, change happened before and it even worked out well; it can and should happen again. Forums should evolve and get more organized over time.
I don't think mystical posts about surrendering to "ego death" and the erasure of time should necessarily be lumped in with spiritual posts about something that doesn't have anything to do with mystical experience. If we continue down this road, we only give power to the pseudoskeptics who wish to overgeneralize everything together: religion, spirituality, mysticism, crystal gazing, chakra stimulation, near-death experiences, homeopathy, rock dousing, and UFO encounters -- it's all the same to them. If one is bullshit, that means all are bullshit. I'm not saying any of these are necessarily bullshit; rather, I'm saying, let's help users sift through the information themselves. Creating subcategories for Spirituality, Mysticism, and Religion is a step in the right direction.
At this point, I think these threads serve as a public service announcement. Through this post, lurkers will learn about the importance of not overgeneralizing.
I know for me personally, I kept a 100 ft stick from anything to do with Spirituality, Mysticism, and Religion, because it was constantly lumped in all together... and it was all "guilt by association". If one group of people believe "God as a man with a beard in the sky", and the others are dismissive of evolution, and still others think you can douse for rock energies, no wonder I couldn't sift through the nonsense to find the gem. This path could have been much shorter for me if online forums distinguished between these categories of thought.
Freedom, if yoga led to a unity experience, it would belong in the Mysticism subforum.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: solarshroomster]
#28604877 - 12/31/23 04:56 PM (27 days, 14 hours ago) |
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No hurt feelings intended through this poll. I'm happy to be disagreed with!
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Freedom] 1
#28604908 - 12/31/23 05:15 PM (27 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: I think its a pretty bold claim to say that yoga and mindfulness meditation aren't connected to mystical experiences
That is a rather polite way to put it.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: solarshroomster]
#28604911 - 12/31/23 05:16 PM (27 days, 13 hours ago) |
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I like that then 
Doesn't feel right for me to vote, I'm more of a foreign tourist than a citizen around these parts...
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Nillion]
#28604930 - 12/31/23 05:26 PM (27 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Nillion said:
Quote:
Freedom said: I think its a pretty bold claim to say that yoga and mindfulness meditation aren't connected to mystical experiences
That is a rather polite way to put it.
The preponderance of yoga and mindfulness experiences do not lead to unitive experiences. Therefore lumping them in willy-nilly with shroom experiences causes a lot of confusion.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: solarshroomster] 1
#28604954 - 12/31/23 05:40 PM (27 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Quote:
solarshroomster said:
Quote:
Nillion said:
Quote:
Freedom said: I think its a pretty bold claim to say that yoga and mindfulness meditation aren't connected to mystical experiences
That is a rather polite way to put it.
The preponderance of yoga and mindfulness experiences do not lead to unitive experiences. Therefore lumping them in willy-nilly with shroom experiences causes a lot of confusion.
the popular way people do things rarely goes very deep.
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Freedom]
#28604964 - 12/31/23 05:44 PM (27 days, 13 hours ago) |
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I agree. That’s why I think it’s important to distinguish between yoga experiences that lead to mystical experiences and those that are just more focused on community building.
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 6 hours, 43 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Freedom]
#28604968 - 12/31/23 05:47 PM (27 days, 13 hours ago) |
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I get you, I visited many spiritual centers for years and was turned off in the same way.
I think this a good idea. I actually don't know if practice is a cause or a symptom.
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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: syncro] 2
#28604974 - 12/31/23 05:51 PM (27 days, 13 hours ago) |
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Yoga by definition is a unifying practice. Japa, Natya, Hatha etc. Numerous types of Yoga are considered sacred traditions that unify. That is even what Yoga as a word means.
While what you mention is likely true in regard to things like modern Yoga as a form of exercise for the body even those forms still have roots in mystical practice.
All the Yoga classes I attended were even in a Hindu temple.
As someone who is occasionally offensive and even deliberately provocative at times I have wondered if your comments about Yoga are meant to be offensive on purpose or if it is just a coincidence that they can be found to be readily offensive to certain people. I can't tell. I'm not easily offended and have not been offended here by you in any way, but I have a concern that dismissing an ancient mystical traditional practice in this manner is potentially problematic.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 19 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Nillion]
#28605551 - 01/01/24 08:47 AM (26 days, 22 hours ago) |
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What a bunch of party poopers.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 19 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: syncro]
#28605699 - 01/01/24 11:16 AM (26 days, 19 hours ago) |
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I'm playing. I voted for 3 subforums assuming there would be enough traffic to warrant them, though the same dynamics would occur in the experiment presumably over a longer period of time.
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solarshroomster
Wonderer



Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 506
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: syncro] 1
#28605759 - 01/01/24 12:12 PM (26 days, 18 hours ago) |
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I see 4 people have voted “no”.
Must be fraudulent. Rigged!
:P
-------------------- Chopin in Eternal Sonata: "I believe that I am somehow being tested. That I am on this journey to come to some realization. And in order to do so, I think I’m supposed to live my life to the fullest, even if it is in this muddled world of dream and reality."
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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: syncro]
#28605797 - 01/01/24 12:39 PM (26 days, 18 hours ago) |
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I think that maybe if the poll wasn't buried in the middle of this discussion that a few more people might notice it and vote.
You could start a mystic journal and allow others to comment in it.
Kickle's mention of User Created sections does seem like a pretty good option to me.
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spinvis
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/20
Posts: 586
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Nillion]
#28633997 - 01/25/24 04:06 AM (3 days, 2 hours ago) |
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Didn't see this new topic created for it. My answer is still no.
If you go that route where does it end? Why stop there, why not create separate forums for each branch. One for each branch of yoga, one for the yoga mystics, one for each school of Zen, one for the Zen mystics, one for the Gnostics, one for the Hermetics, one for the Cabalists, one for the Vedantics, one for the Protestants, one for the Catholics, one for the Christians, one for the Christian mystics, one for the Sufi mystics, one for the Taoists, etc etc you catch my drift... And everybody will be in their own little safe corner, without possible exposure to anything that might be contradictory to whatever they're attached to.
Right...
All that separation doesn't sound like the oneness a mystic experiences, symbolizes, or stands for and beliefs in.
Tell me, is the following mystical, spiritual, or religious?
Quote:
The Great Way isn’t difficult for those who are unattached to their preferences. Let go of longing and aversion, and everything will be perfectly clear. When you cling to a hairbreadth of distinction, heaven and earth are set apart. If you want to realize the truth, don’t be for or against. The struggle between good and evil is the primal disease of the mind. Not grasping the deeper meaning, you just trouble your mind’s serenity. As vast as infinite space, it is perfect and lacks nothing. But because you select and reject, you can’t perceive its true nature. Don’t get entangled in the world; don’t lose yourself in emptiness. Be at peace in the oneness of things, and all errors will disappear by themselves.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,793
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: spinvis]
#28634007 - 01/25/24 04:25 AM (3 days, 2 hours ago) |
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I always thought this was the Spirituality & Myristicin forum
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 19 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: Asante]
#28634039 - 01/25/24 06:08 AM (3 days, 56 minutes ago) |
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It's funny it seems all our plant based intoxicants are insecticides. Reading on that one I was considering some of the esoteric creation theories, where all life here 'below' man is man's creation, or was man. So then we use and enjoy the poisons of that of us we have evolved through.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 19 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: syncro]
#28634076 - 01/25/24 06:59 AM (3 days, 5 minutes ago) |
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"Tell me, is the following mystical, spiritual, or religious?
Quote: The Great Way isn’t difficult"
I think the point was to separate more so direct experience. Arguably the quote is or brings directly. Another idea is to have a subforum here under direct experience, or mystical experience.. like the psychedelic experience.
Edited by syncro (01/25/24 07:06 AM)
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spinvis
Stranger

Registered: 09/15/20
Posts: 586
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: syncro]
#28634181 - 01/25/24 09:05 AM (2 days, 21 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: I always thought this was the Spirituality & Myristicin forum 
now that looks interesting!
Quote:
syncro said: I think the point was to separate more so direct experience.
The ordinary experience and life is it.
Haha thanks for your answer btw, it was directed at solarshroomster tho.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,696
Last seen: 19 minutes
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Re: Discussion, distinctions between mysticism, spirituality, religion... [Re: spinvis]
#28634199 - 01/25/24 09:19 AM (2 days, 21 hours ago) |
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"The ordinary experience and life is it."
I think Solar was distinguishing that from profound or unitive experience which in fortune is seen in the ordinary, yet also in such as tripping or meditation can be seen as a different thing.
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