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OfflineChtouxhu
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Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone * 4
    #28604164 - 12/31/23 05:17 AM (5 months, 23 days ago)

This will be a sort of grow log of me trying to get some indoor action from an A. bisporus culture I cloned from my local supermarket. Never fruited any Agaricus indoors, mostly because of the prohibitive high temperatures during most of the year around here, so I figured the heart of winter would be my best chance at this.

Let's dive right in.

November 20th - I cloned this volunteer on malt extract agar with 2.13% peptone. I chose tissue from the inside of the cap.


November 25th - First signs of growth; original tissue died, but soon got surrounded by wispy mycelium.


November 29th - Growth rate started to take off, and some nice rhizomorphic action was clearly visible.


December 1st


And finally, time-skip to December 10th: notice the cottony sector on the outer edge of the radial growth, very characteristic of Agaricus mycelium.


At this point the culture's growth rate was at least twice greater compared to when it first started; the mycelium effectively reinvigorated in very little time compared to how Agaricus usually fares on agar. I suspect the addition of peptone to MEA might have something to do with this, as Agaricus species are high-nitrogen lovers.

December 14th - I finally transferred some agar wedges to a few grain jars. I decided to mix some compost to the grains since Agaricus mycelium is said to have troubles when accessing to complex grain nutrients. I chose corn as a grain because it allows compost to mix more uniformly between its air pockets.
Another wedge was transferred to a new plate and two more wedges were used to inoculate a couple of slants, just to have a backup of this interesting culture.
 

December 22th - colonization on grain + compost is very fast, even faster than it was on agar. Agaricus mycelium is really a different kind of beast compared to primary decomposers; at first it tends to embrace all of its given substrate with wispy, scarcely dense greyish mycelium. Only subsequently it starts to thicken. I've noticed a similar pattern with other compost-philes, such as Coprinus comatus, which I'm also growing at the moment. Could it be a way to outcompete and kill all the other competitors in the compost pile / manure pile as soon as possible?



On December 27th I shook the smaller jar, although it was already at >50% colonization. Yesterday, December 30th, this is how the small jar looked like: mycelium is practically everywhere, but a lot of grains are still uncovered so I'm waiting for it to thicken up. Since the other jars are still behind in colonization, I also need to wait for them before spawning them all together in a tub.




Now to the most fun part of growing Agaricus: making compost:smile:.
I started with grass clippings from my own lawn, "harvested" in early November. I left these to rot and decompose on their own before moving on to the proper composting techniques. Lots of anaerobic decomposition with sulfate-reducing bacteria, judging by the smell of rotten eggs, kept going on for roughly one month.

I used this "pre-compost" step to tenderize and pre-digest the grass clippings before introducing them to aerobic decomposition along with straw and other materials.

I started the aerobic compost in early December with as many diverse materials I could possibly stack into it. Straw pellets as the main carbon source, and a whole lot of different manures for nitrogen supplementation: sheep manure collected from a local pasture near my home, bagged chicken manure from local garden nursery (this made my pile steaming hot in less than two days), bagged cow and horse manure + some coffee grounds.
Here are some photos from yesterday (December 30th):


I tried keeping the C:N ratio inside the 20:1 - 15:1 interval, as this seems to be most beneficial ratio for secondary decomposers according to research (Fidanza and Beyer, 2009), but I did not accurately measure it. I'll be using the same compost for the Coprinus comatus culture I've just transferred to grain master jars (I'll definitely make a separate thread dedicated entirely to my attempt to fruit Coprinus indoors too).


Anyway, thanks to everybody for reading! I'll update this thread as soon as soon as I spawn my first jars to compost.


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OfflineChtouxhu
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28614131 - 01/08/24 01:52 PM (5 months, 15 days ago)

January 3rd - I decided to spawn just one jar to a shoebox with a low spawn ratio, around 1:20. This was to avoid wasting too much grain spawn on a test grow, but I've read that commercial Agaricus growers use ratios even lower than that. I pasteurized my compost at 55-60° (135-140°F) for 90 minutes. Now you must be thinking, that's a pretty low temperature for pasteurization. Well, I did not want to kill every possible microbial species except for thermophiles; I mainly wanted to rule out bugs (it was loaded with mites), bacterial pathogens and hitchhikers molds that don't belong to the complex plethora of dung-loving microbes; for this reason, I chose a low heat pasteurization.

The compost smelled fine during the entire heat-treatment process. Even when it was cooling down it just kept a delicate smell of dirt and sheep dung. For some reasons though, it smelled absolutely rancid the day after pasteurization, after sitting 12 hours in the oven bag.
It resumed smelling nice and earthy just a day after spawning. It probably had something to do with beneficial microbes recolonizing and cleaning up after the massacre that is pasteurization.
Mycelium started growing on Janaury 4th. I plan on fruiting the shoebox in an indoor greenhouse with active fresh air intake and an ultrasonic fogger.


January 8th - five days after spawning, mycelium is spreading nicely and can be seen popping up a few centimeters away from the inoculation points.


On the same day (which is today) I spawned another jar of corn/compost, this time not to a shoebox but a taller tub. Since I intend to fruit this substrate inside the tub, I needed less compost than what I used in the shoebox. This resulted in a higher spawn ratio, approximately 1:15 or slightly higher. I'll post a picture of the tub very soon.

Here's a pic of the jar a few days before spawning. I love how this culture looks on grain/compost :rockon:.



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Edited by Chtouxhu (02/06/24 01:28 AM)

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OfflineChtouxhu
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu] * 1
    #28615393 - 01/09/24 03:12 PM (5 months, 14 days ago)

January 9th - This morning I found these little Pilobolus sprouting in the shoebox. Extremely interesting dung-colonizing fungi. They probably came from the sheep manure I harvested, and their spores must be very resistant to low-end pasteurization temps. I said 'extremely interesting' because their spores are amongst the fastest-accelerating organisms on the planet (0 to 25 km/h in 2 μs !!!).


I'm not worried about them, they should be pretty harmless and Agaricus mycelium is one of the most aggressive I've ever worked with. I still ended up removing the chunk from which they were fruiting, and took a look at them with a stereomicroscope.




When I say Agaricus mycelium is aggressive this is what I mean:

In the central part of the picture you can clearly see dense mycelium, mainly because there's a grain underneath and all the growth radiates from there. But if you take a look at the bottom left you'll notice all those cobweb-like hyphae, sparsely connecting pieces of substrates as if a spider spun them. These are growing everywhere on the surface.

With most cultivated species we can visually follow each inoculation point's distinct path to complete colonization, and that is when they all finally join together. Not the case with A. bisporus, at least not this strain. These threads are popping up everywhere (remember this shoebox was spawned with a 1:20 rate), and they are slowly aggregating and becoming more visible. Aside from growing radially, each individual inoculation point must be sending long seeker hyphae to reach portions of substrate that would have been touched much more slowly with radial growth alone. While these delicate strands grow rapidly, denser mycelium forms rhizomorphic and cottony structures at a lower pace around the inoculation points.
Well, at least, this is what I'm observing with my cultures. It might be commonly known info for this species that I wasn't aware of, since I've only grown buttons outdoors :tongue:.


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OfflineChtouxhu
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28618300 - 01/12/24 04:30 AM (5 months, 11 days ago)

January 12th - Well I must be doing something right with this culture because it's forming primordia without a casing layer!!!! And it's not even in fruiting conditions, it's sitting at 25°C (77°F) at the very least!
(EDITED 1 MONTH LATER: these were not A. bisporus primordia, but some other dung fungi that were growing alongside A. bisporus like the Pilobolus species in the previous post).




Why is this happening with a species that is known for requiring a casing layer? I came up with one hypothesis: this might have something to do with how lightly pasteurized my substrate is. It's so rich in dung fungi and bacteria that the fruiting-inhibitory compounds produced by Agaricus are rapidly neutralized by the Pseudomonas colonies inside the compost. In industrial growing this action is usually performed by Pseudomonas colonies inside the casing layer, not the substrate, which is usually throughly pasteurized, as most studies demonstrate:

The involvement of pseudomonads In the process of basidiome initiation of the cultivated mushroom Agaricus bisporus was investigated. Pseudomonads used throughout the study were identified and Pseudomonas putida was shown to be responsible for initiating basidiome morphogenesis. The prodigious morphogenetical capabilities of a single P. putida and P. tolaasii colony was demonstrated and the production of rough colonial forms in peat casing soil was observed. Rough colonial forms of P. putida were found to be capable of promoting basidiome initiation.


This still doesn't explain why is it forming primordia in such warm temperatures, given this is Agaricus bisporus and not a warm-fruiting species. It might be something strain-specific.

I have to specify however that I'm letting it colonize in pretty high FAE conditions compared to your average spawn run (the shoebox has a loose-fitting lid and four holes on its sides), and I mist it frequently to prevent it from drying out.

Anyway here's a top view of the shoebox:

Mycelium is very wispy and grey so it doesn't appear to be much colonized, but it's slowly covering everything. Remember this is just 9 days from spawning with a 1:20 ratio.
And a bottom view:


As you can see it's much more colonized than it appears from the top.

What I'm planning to do with it is simply keeping everything the same until it's 100% colonized. If the pins don't abort by themselves, and if they are serious about growing to full maturity, I'll probably pick them off and wait for a proper flush once I place the box in fruiting conditions with a true casing layer and low temps. My main concern is that fruits formed in lower FAE and warmer temperatures will be of lower quality as with most gourmet species.

Anyway, this is it for now, I'll post some updates on primordia development very soon. :cheers:

Edited by Chtouxhu (02/10/24 07:54 AM)

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OfflinePhreshmaker
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28620548 - 01/14/24 05:58 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Hi can you tell me more about how you make your substrate? Ive read that you need to make a huge pile of it at once to reach the right temperatures for the microbes you need in it. and how often and after how many days do you mix your pile?

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OfflineChtouxhu
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Phreshmaker]
    #28621682 - 01/15/24 01:55 AM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Phreshmaker said:
Ive read that you need to make a huge pile of it at once to reach the right temperatures for the microbes you need in it.




That’s the standard procedure for large scale cultivation, yes. That involves very large piles of compost (2m x 2m at least) subjected to medium temperature composting followed by a phase II high temperature composting, which basically favours thermophile bacteria.

But those higher temperatures are not necessary at all for small scale growing; my pile is so small it doesn't even look like a pile, it's more like a big container of dirt.



It never reached more than 30°C (86°F) on its own, at least not now in the winter. Larger piles heat up faster and thus decompose faster, so if you have the opportunity to make a big mound absolutely go for it. In my case I just filled a flower bed pot with raw materials, drilled some holes on the sides to allow oxygen in, It took just a little over a month to reach a good compost for spawning.

The high temperatures reached by larger piles (around 60°) allow beneficial microbes to take better hold, that’s true, but they’re going to be favoured when you do manual pasteurization anyway. Even if my compost never surpassed 30°C, before spawning I still brought the amount I needed to 60°C (140°F) through pasteurization. That makes up for the smallness of my pile.

Quote:

Phreshmaker said:
how often and after how many days do you mix your pile?




I turned it as soon as it started heating, which was roughly three days after making it. You need to turn it everyday for at least the first week. From there on I started neglecting it a bit, turning it every two days or every three days, but there's no harm if you keep turning it everyday.

You'll notice eventually it starts heating less and less; that usually coincides when your straw has turned completely brown, and the general smell is more dirt/fungus-like instead of ammonia/urea. That's generally when the compost is ready for spawning. At this stage it's still decomposing, simply at a lower pace. It still needs to be turned every three days at least. Mine has reached its prime now, I'm still turning it because I need to use it for my shaggy mane culture, but I've already prepared new fresh material to start over.
Older compost that has become too digested can be either mixed with fresh materials to inoculate them with microbes, or get composted all the way until it turns to humus for your plants.

Anaerobic areas that don't get turned will get colonized by sulfur-reducing bacteria, and they smell like rotten eggs or sewage. Having some anaerobic areas isn't a problem as long as you get those materials on the surface when you turn. The smell will dissipate overnight and materials will rapidly get recolonized by aerobic organisms.


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Edited by Chtouxhu (01/17/24 02:08 AM)

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OfflinePhreshmaker
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28622134 - 01/15/24 12:37 PM (5 months, 8 days ago)

thank you for the lots of informations. its very interesting for me because my wife has horses, chicken and 2 mini sheeps. The only thing i was afraid of was the big pile of compost that i had to make and to turn every few days. But your way looks so good that i have to give it try in the near future.
It would be very nice if you post some pics as soon as your mushroom shows some fruiting

Edited by Phreshmaker (01/15/24 12:38 PM)

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OfflineChtouxhu
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Phreshmaker]
    #28623080 - 01/16/24 08:06 AM (5 months, 7 days ago)

I'd say absolutely go for it! It's so easy and cheap especially if you already have so many farm animals.

This is how large my "pile" is:



Mature compost on the left, fresher materials (only mixed about a week ago) on the right. The fresh mix is too shallow to heat up and decompose rapidly in the cold weather. I made it this way so it can remain unaltered until I can mix it with the older compost, which I'm still using to spawn a few jars. I forgot to chop those grass stalks before taking the picture. They break down so much faster if you cut them.

Here's all the ingredient I use in a couple of pics: (except for grass clippings which obviously are only available when I mow my lawn):

Dry materials: straw pellets, horse manure pellets, cow manure pellets and chicken manure pellets. This dry mix is approximately 60% straw, 30% horse/cow, 10% chicken.



Wet materials: fresh or slightly field-aged sheep manure (+ grass clippings and coffee grounds when available). I try to maintain a 1:1 ratio with the dry mix, but it's not easy to collect so much dung directly from the pasture, especially with five sheepdog guarding the sheep from kilometers away :smile: so I always end up with less fresh manure than I'd like to mix in.



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Edited by Chtouxhu (02/03/24 02:49 AM)

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OfflineChtouxhu
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28624158 - 01/17/24 02:04 AM (5 months, 7 days ago)

January 15th and 16th - This is how the surface looked 12 days after spawning.



Some of the pins were growing fast but they were extremely elongated and thin, probably because of lack of FAE (the box wasn't in fruiting conditions yet). But what struck me the most was the brown cap, because I cloned from a white button, not a cremini. From how the culture looked on agar plates and on grains there's almost no doubt this is Agaricus bisporus(EDITED 1 MONTH LATER: most of the mycelium you see in the pictures belonged in fact to A. bisporus, but these pins did not :lol:) Maybe with enough ambient light white buttons can turn tan/brown? I know they grow them large-scale with minimal lighting, but not in complete darkness.





This side pin was growing tremendously long, probably due to lack of adequate fresh air. I still don't understand exactly what caused this substrate to pin so massively, not just on the surface but on the sides as well. I'm taking it as a sign of aggressive fruiting :shrug:

Anyway, in a rush to put it in fruiting conditions without making it waste resources on puny fruiting bodies, I cased the tub with a mixture of soil from my garden, vermiculite and organic compost-based top soil. I hate buying peat, it's unsustainable and it has no correlation whatsoever to how mushrooms grow in nature. Compost-based top soil is basically the type you find at garden stores with small particulates of wood chips and stuff like that. I started preparing this mix a month ago, rinsing it with a hose everyday for one week to remove most soluble nutrients and fungicide (even though the bag says 100% organic).

I did not heat-treat this mix in any way to preserve as many bacteria as possible (EDIT 15 DAYS AFTER THIS POST: this was a bad idea - fungus gnats). Now that I think about it, I could've probably got away with normal pasteurization since whatever causes fruiting in A. bisporus (Pseudomonads?) was already present in the substrate.

I cased approximately 5-6 cm deep (2-2.5 inches). I placed the cased tub directly in my Martha tent, with the lid off. Temperatures are between 19°C and 22°C (66.2°F - 71.6°F), which should be alright for fruiting. I could've let mycelium run through the casing with warmer temps, but there would've been me minimal space between the lid and the casing layer.

I'm not planning on cold-shocking because wild Agaricus species from temperate climates grow from the start of spring to mid fall; They can grow in the summer too after a particularly cool rainstorm. In fact I'm not aware of anyone using cold-shocking for button mushroom on large/small scale cultivation.



As of today, January 17th, the tub is still sitting in fruiting conditions. I'm sure some of the pins that were maturing without a casing layer will push trough it fine, so will see how they look like to 100% confirm they are Agaricus bisporus. What I'm actually hoping for though is a proper flush after mycelium starts poking through the casing.

Edited by Chtouxhu (02/10/24 08:24 AM)

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OfflinePhreshmaker
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28641689 - 01/31/24 10:02 AM (4 months, 23 days ago)

Do you have any updates for us? im very curious to see how things are going

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OfflineChtouxhu
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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Phreshmaker]
    #28643634 - 02/02/24 06:39 AM (4 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Phreshmaker said:
Do you have any updates for us? im very curious to see how things are going




Yes I have a few updates! Sorry for the terrible delay.

I got bad news and good news.
Bad news is that shortly after box #1 was put in fruiting conditions, I noticed fungus gnat larvae squirming around the substrate :smbfacepalm:. Not heat-treating the casing layer was a mistake, so if you plan on fruiting Agaricus indoors you should definitely do a low end pasteurization of the casing layer, at least. This will most likely kill all animals and most fungi, but hopefully many bacteria will remain alive.

Anyway I did not dump box #1, I just moved it outdoors to avoid infesting my other experiments with fungus gnats. Hopefully it will fruit once temperatures warm up a bit.



Now, the good news is that in the meanwhile (January 21st) I made another shoebox of the same culture. Same substrate, but considerably higher spawn ratio (< 0.750 : 5). Colonization was fast, it took precisely 10 days.



On January 31st I cased it with the same mix of top soil, soil from my garden + vermiculite. This time I pasteurized it properly.


February 2nd - Today, after letting mycelium run partially through the casing for the previous two days, I opened the shoebox and moved it to my indoor greenhouse, where I'm also trying to fruit a couple tubs of Coprinus comatus. Temperatures fluctuate between 20° and 17°.

Here's a few pics. Mycelium was just starting to poke through the casing, I didn't want it to overlay so I immediately moved it to fruiting conditions:





I'd say it looks good for now. Hopefully it will produce primordia in the next two or three weeks. If not, I may resort to brief cold shocking (a night or two in the fridge), even though as I said in my previous post I've never heard of anyone doing it with Agaricus.


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Edited by Chtouxhu (02/02/24 06:45 AM)

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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28643648 - 02/02/24 07:03 AM (4 months, 21 days ago)

Good stuff, thanks for posting this.

:grampofapproval:

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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Yahra] * 1
    #28644147 - 02/02/24 03:18 PM (4 months, 21 days ago)

Thanks for the feedback Yahra! Glad you're enjoying this thread.
:cheers:


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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu] * 1
    #28645436 - 02/03/24 04:42 PM (4 months, 20 days ago)

Looking very good. i hope you will have success :thumbup:

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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Phreshmaker]
    #28646062 - 02/04/24 07:29 AM (4 months, 19 days ago)

February 3rd - I used leftover casing mix to patch any mycelium that has grown over the casing layer during the post-casing incubation.

February 4th - Just one day after patching, mycelium is on the casing's surface again :lol: it just keeps growing and growing on whatever you throw at it.



Now you might be thinking "well a casing layer should be partially colonized, it's good to have some sparse mycelial growth on it", and you'd be right. But if Agaricus is anything like Coprinus when grown indoors (both are compost lovers), overlay would be an issue. As I've said before I'm growing both species right now and it's been a pain to keep one of my shaggy manes box from overlaying (as I promised I'll start a separate thread about them soon).

Anyway, while you don't typically see overlaid casings in Agaricus mushroom farms, and while it obviously doesn't happen at all in outdoor grows, it would seem like mycelial growth on casings doesn't necessarily hinder fruitings altogether.

This very interesting thread shed some light on the subject for me (although this is Agaricus arvensis, not bisporus):

Quote:

elpico said:
Anyone play around with A. arvensis?  Seems like an interesting warm weather/fast growing species.  I wasn't able to find much info on people cultivating it.  Anyhow, there is a large patch that fruits year after year in a soccer field near my house.  I cloned a few fruits, and isolated a culture that grew very aggressively and fruited readily.  It ate threw the casing and overlaid/dried out pretty badly, so the grow was not spectacular.  But I managed a few nice fruits.  Grain to pasteurized bulk(horse manure/straw pellets/vermiculite), cased and fruited in the low 70's in an indoor grow tent.  Here's the first flush on one of the trays:







As you can see that's some pretty impressive results with an overlaid casing, considering the container's size. Obviously it's a different species from A. bisporus but they are pretty similar in their requirements.

Anyway, I'll let it do its thing and grow over the casing if it wants to. Hope to see some knots forming very soon .


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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28649906 - 02/07/24 06:02 AM (4 months, 16 days ago)

Ladies and gentlemen, outdoor box is officially fruiting!!!




It seems like pins (hopefully there'll be more and not just one) are forming deep under the casing, as the increased drought in the outdoor environment prevents mycelium from overlaying. In fact there's no mycelium on top of the casing layer.

Since I was more focused on my indoor experiments I forgot to mention one detail that might have been decisive for inducing primordia in this substrate: on February 2nd (just five days ago) I noticed both the casing and colonized substrate were very dry, so instead of just misting it as I do everyday, I watered the box with a hose, carefully directing the flow on my hand and letting it pour over the casing; after two minutes or so I drained off most of the water by tilting the box by less than ninety degrees. Some of the water remained stagnant at the bottom of the substrate, with no ill effects. As of today most of the water it's gone, some probably evaporated and some got probably absorbed by the mycelium.

I don't know if this pseudo-dunking was decisive in inducing primordia, but it surely doesn't look like a coincidence at first glance.
Also I can definitely tell you we're getting particularly warm days here, night temps are not dipping below 9°C (48°F) and day temps regularly reach 14°C (57°F). It almost feels like spring, which is prime season for Agaricus in nature.

Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated on the mushrooms' development! Hopefully the indoor box will fruit soon too. I might try to water it like I did with this one and see if it speeds up things.
:cheers:


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Edited by Chtouxhu (02/07/24 08:04 AM)

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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28652451 - 02/09/24 03:55 AM (4 months, 15 days ago)

February 4th - on the same day I patched the indoor shoebox, I decided to ensure the presence of microbial activity in the casing layer (unlike the outdoor box, this casing layer was pasteurized) through a method sometimes adopted by Calocybe indica cultivators in India and other tropical countries: the use of yogurt bacteria (mainly Lactobacillus sp. and Streptococcus thermophilus).

Basically I opened a jar of greek yogurt, took some of the liquid whey that forms on the surface, mixed it with de-ionized/reverse osmosis water in a 1:2 ratio and squirted it evenly on the casing with a syringe. I used deionized/RO water to avoid any trace of chlorine, but I'm sure tap water works fine too. I'm just obsessed with removing chlorine whenever I can.




February 9th - After less than a week in fruiting conditions, and five days after squirting the water - yogurt mix on the casing, looks like the indoor box is already knotting :rockon:



Coincidentally, mycelium has stopped colonizing the casing layer, or at least it has considerably slowed down.


If fruiting proves to be successful and biologically efficient, it will confirm the following statements:

  • No cold shocking was necessary, just a general drop in temperatures from colonization to fruiting, as most sources affirm;

  • Fruiting temperatures fluctuating between 18°C and 21.5°C seem to work, at least with this strain. This was my main concern, since I live in a very warm climate. The greenhouse is located on a second floor, not even the coldest place of the house. I'm sure with a bit of air conditioning it's possible to grow A. bisporus indoors in late spring / early summer too, without resorting to basements or cellars. But moving to warmer weather species like A. arvensis or A. bitorquis would probably be wiser.

  • A pasteurized casing layer seems to work too (60°-70°C / 140°-158°F for 90 minutes), but it's important to note I also added the water/yogurt mix. I'll do separate trials with this strain to see if that makes a difference in pinning times. The main goal of this first trial was just to determine if winter indoor temperatures are cool enough to induce pinning.




Meanwhile, five other pins have appeared in the outdoor box:



It's infested with gnats unfortunately, as most of the larvae I saw 23 days ago have fully developed into adults. I'm trying to kill most of them, luckily they are incapable of flying for a few days after metamorphosing, and hopefully they are still sexually immature so I can kill them before they start breeding again. Obviously this shoebox isn't going to come back indoors, but I hope to get a 2nd flush after this one.


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Edited by Chtouxhu (02/09/24 06:22 AM)

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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28653830 - 02/10/24 08:23 AM (4 months, 13 days ago)

Now that I'm witnessing exactly how A. bisporus primordia develop, there's no doubt the pins that appeared during colonization of the substrate did not form off the Agaricus mycelium. Agaricus knots are very large, cottony and sometimes irregularly shaped. I edited these previous posts to warn new readers:

Quote:

Chtouxhu said:
January 12th - Well I must be doing something right with this culture because it's forming primordia without a casing layer!!!! And it's not even in fruiting conditions, it's sitting at 25°C (77°F) at the very least!
(EDITED 1 MONTH LATER: these were not A. bisporus primordia, but some other dung fungi that were growing alongside A. bisporus like the Pilobolus species in the previous post).







Quote:

Chtouxhu said:
January 15th and 16th - This is how the surface looked 12 days after spawning.



Some of the pins were growing fast but they were extremely elongated and thin, probably because of lack of FAE (the box wasn't in fruiting conditions yet). But what struck me the most was the brown cap, because I cloned from a white button, not a cremini. From how the culture looked on agar plates and on grains there's almost no doubt this is Agaricus bisporus(EDITED 1 MONTH LATER: most of the mycelium you see in the pictures belonged in fact to A. bisporus, but these pins did not :lol:) Maybe with enough ambient light white buttons can turn tan/brown? I know they grow them large-scale with minimal lighting, but not in complete darkness.






Whatever these little mushrooms were, they didn't do any harm. They quickly disappeared after I cased.


Anyway here's a pic from the shoebox fruiting outdoors. Still small, but they already look very tasty :crazy2:



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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28657844 - 02/13/24 02:12 AM (4 months, 11 days ago)

A couple of updates about the pins in the outdoor shoebox. They keep getting plumper! :grin:

Yesterday, February 12th:




Today, February 13th:


(the white glare on the casing is just sunlight)


The indoor box is knotting everywhere beneath the casing, but knots are apparently staying dormant and immobile for now, even the older ones. Maybe I need to trigger their development by watering the casing like I did with the outdoor one. Misting alone doesn't seem to cut it.

After all, ground-loving mushrooms form rapidly after long rains. Their knots and primordia must already be present beneath the grass layer before rain comes.
Today I'll try the watering method, and we'll see if it triggers fruit body development. Judging by how plump the outdoor mushies are getting, these things suck a LOT of liquids from the ground in very little time.


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Re: Agaricus bisporus - indoor growing from supermarket clone [Re: Chtouxhu]
    #28659672 - 02/14/24 02:08 PM (4 months, 9 days ago)

February 14th - Finally, our indoor experiment is officially fruiting! :dancer:



It's hard to see it from the image, but there are at least five visible pins in there. That large white spot is actually a cluster of three.

I did water it in the end, but I don't think it was necessary at all. I should've been more patient, but I guess that's what this hobby always teaches you. Hopefully the additional water will support a larger flush than what would have resulted from misting alone.

Overall, pinning took less than 12 days after I applied the casing layer. I honestly expected this to be harder to achieve, or at least I expected it to take longer. This was pretty straightforward and I don't see any reason not to try growing them at home aside from  the effort of making compost, which can actually be fun and cheap. Obviously there are more valuable Agaricus species other than A. bisporus, but aside from temperatures, cultivation is said to be basically the same.
Hopefully we'll get a nice yield.

---

Meanwhile, today was harvest day for the outdoor, gnat-infested shoebox!









Considering this was a 5 liters (5.2 quarts) shoebox with a 1:20 spawn ratio, I'm extremely satisfied with the results.



Cooked them with olive oil, butter, parsley and black pepper. The smell was much more fragrant and intense than your usual white buttons from the store. Taste was stronger, but not by a large margin.

Anyway, that's it for today. I'll post updates as the pins in the indoor box develop. :cheers:


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