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OfflineNeurotech
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Registered: 05/05/20
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Re: Denying insights from trip [Re: Lara] * 1
    #28608454 - 01/03/24 01:10 PM (24 days, 22 hours ago)

Awesome post, TY. You didn't mention the reason you are in therapy, or what your pre-trip thinking was like. I would guess that you have been wrestling with depression for a long time. The aspect of depression I am talking about is not so much the sadness as the negative and self-deprecatory thought processes that have become habitual and that in turn drive our emotions and motivation. During the trip, the psilocin replaced and interacted with your neurotransmitters and relieved that. People have spoken about feeling immediately better after years of intractable depression after just one trip and that the feeling can last for months. But not everyone is so lucky.

What I get from your post-trip denial is a return of self-deprecatory thinking. The denial of the insights obtained is likely similar/parallel to the way that depressive thoughts pollute your mind. The pattern of thoughts you have had for many years was too easy to return to. No, you can't be worthy of existence?!? Fuck that.

I don't know if your therapist has ever taught you thought stopping. Its a CBT technique in which you learn to identify your negative thoughts, not own them. You evaluate them as to their truth and/or usefulness. And if they are not true or at worst not useful to you, you learn to stop them and to replace them with what makes more sense.  The thought stopping, in my experience both as a practitioner and as a patient, takes work and you must be consistent, never complacent, until the reality-based replacement thoughts become the new habitual neural pathway. When I used thought stopping I had to be aggressive, saying fuck you to the negative thoughts. It became much easier after a few days and after a few weeks I was essentially free of those thoughts. They surface still sometimes, but are fairly easily beaten back.

If I were you, I would work on thought identification/stopping/replacement for a few weeks and possibly dose again then. I think it is important to work on the insights of a trip in real life before tripping again. When you trip too much I feel it is disrespectful to the substance, expecting it to do all the work. Literally or more likely just figuratively, I think the shrooms get annoyed when you don't listen to what they have already taught you.

I may be way off base here, but if it resonates and you try it, I would love to hear about it whether it helps or not.

Namaste

(rereading this and RGV's post, I see different sides of the same coin. Indeed, associative processes can explain the underlying bases of this effective technique. )


Edited by Neurotech (01/03/24 01:13 PM)


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OfflineNeurotech
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Registered: 05/05/20
Posts: 642
Last seen: 2 days, 3 hours
Re: Denying insights from trip [Re: Lara] * 1
    #28622178 - 01/15/24 01:19 PM (12 days, 21 hours ago)

"Regarding my playing, this is MASSIVE. Some things were beginning to change before the trip, but now is definitely different: I have stopped all types of technique work and also have been away from repertoire that I wanted to tackle, and instead I’ve focused on a tiny old book that contains simple melodies from operas, lieds, or popular songs, and I just play them as beautifully as I can, again and again, trying to improve the phrasing and the feeling every time. I had been doing this on and off for a while, but now all my focus is on that, and I’m noticing how my playing is shifting to a more free and joyful experience. Sometimes, I will play random passages or excerpts from repertoire, and music seems to flow by itself, I just let myself play, with no intentions, and music appears in unexpected places. I remember what I read long ago in Nachmanovitch and Werner’s books, and I feel I’m getting closer to those experiences they described playing should be about. I don’t have words enough to describe how much happiness this is bringing into my life."

It brings me joy to read this. While just a "hobby", playing music (guitar, hand drums, keyboard) is very important to me. Most very evening after a work, I grab one of my guitars off the wall or a djembe and play in the family room for 1/2 hour to an hour. If I don't get that chance, I will likely stay downstairs for 20 minutes to play after my wife heads up to bed. If a few days have gone by where I don't choose to play, it is likely that something is wrong in my life. To a fault, I have never been exacting, have never had formal training. (I have taken the time to be a bit more structured and to learn these past few years - self-indulgent playing can wear on people lol.) I enjoy improvising, creating and most of all the passion and expression. I especially like cannabis for playing. A good solo jam can be so involving, so all-engrossing and keeps me in the moment like nothing else besides sex or meditation or psychedelics. Indeed, I am left with an afterglow. On a good evening, that is when I am most involved, I get into a space where I no longer have to think about how to play. It's like the guitar and my fingers play themselves and I can be both the player and the observer, one with the music. Sometimes I get nothing - can only play the same old stuff and maybe some scales. But I know that you have to be in it to win it. Writing this, I see that my attitude toward playing is much the same as my approach to psychedelics - go with the flow, create and observe - and sometimes you get more than other times. But you gotta be in it to win it.

That being said, I love seeing how the aftereffects of your trip took some time to develop. Sometimes you can't really judge the effect of insights and changes as soon as the trip is over. It takes some time to unravel.

TY for your posts.

PS - Thank you for turning me on to Nachmanovitch and Werner. Loved these:



Namaste


Edited by Neurotech (01/15/24 01:25 PM)


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