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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Registered: 05/30/11
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Addiction * 2
    #28602855 - 12/30/23 01:31 AM (29 days, 13 hours ago)

I always thought addiction was a funny word and carried such a negative connotation with it by our society. Like we've been conditioned to be ashamed if we are addicted to something but why is that? It just depends on what it is it seems that changes the way its perceived but the root behavior is still a strong force and a persistent one.



If you think about it, the greatest minds in history were adicts. where we are today in life would not exist if it wasn't for adicts. How else do you think anything would get done? People have to be passionate about stuff or else the species would have died out a long time ago.



I mean look at scientists or people that pursued a deep passion and just didn't carry it out in self destructive behaviors or knew that about themselves and decided to play it safe without ever trying and the same behaviors applied to their hobby or whatever to get them the level of success today where they are.


You think Steve Jobs holed up on computers for nights on end not taking care of himself wasn't addictive behavior? Don't you think some people might have thought he was a bit strange or worried for him or that he was a bit "obsessive". That people probably tried to shame him for it before it ended up becoming the most used thing on the planet.


Look at Einstein. Homie left his family to go obsess about math.


Literally anyone you look at in our society as someone who has made it in life with their passion they were an addict. Or even for the sake of balance the most evil minds in the world also were addicts but you get my point.


So if you are an addict like me and are ever feeling down on yourself or society is making you feel shame and guilt. Just remember that addiction is just a word but there lies passion behind those words. Interpret how you will but don't forget you are human and deserving of love. You matter and are important and it's okay to make mistakes. Even If you relapsed oh well don't beat yourself up just keep going thats all you can do. One day at a time.


Love you all hope you are having a wonderful night :heart:






Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 05:53 AM)


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28602867 - 12/30/23 01:46 AM (29 days, 13 hours ago)



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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28602896 - 12/30/23 02:53 AM (29 days, 12 hours ago)

























































--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28602898 - 12/30/23 03:02 AM (29 days, 12 hours ago)

Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:

Literally anyone you look at in our society as someone who has made it in life with their passion they were an adict.



Err, no.

Also: "addict".

This is one of the many attempts to somehow justify self-destructive or at least unproductive behavior by some kind of flawed logic. Fool yourself if you must; it's still ridiculous. Smoking pot all day doesn't put you on the same level as Einstein. Now get off that couch and do something productive.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] * 1
    #28602902 - 12/30/23 03:06 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Schuman had to be institutionalized because he was insane.
Van Gogh cut off his own ear.
Really creative people have had demons in their lives. They are prone to addiction.
Your comment was unnecessarily mean.
People struggle with addiction. Isn’t as simple as get up and go to work. People can’t get paid unless they have an address in a lot of cases for one example.


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (12/30/23 01:31 PM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602903 - 12/30/23 03:07 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

A former friend of mine, as a teen, glorified alcoholism. Only at age 50 could he quit, and this only with a lot of Jesus.




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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602904 - 12/30/23 03:08 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:

Literally anyone you look at in our society as someone who has made it in life with their passion they were an adict.



Err, no.

Also: "addict".

This is one of the many attempts to somehow justify self-destructive or at least unproductive behavior by some kind of flawed logic. Fool yourself if you must; it's still ridiculous. Smoking pot all day doesn't put you on the same level as Einstein. Now get off that couch and do something productive.








That's not the point I was making at all :lol:




The point is that the energy and drive is the same with addiction. The behavior around it is the same. Just different methods of execution for that energy.

If you can choose to redirect or find a way to it is very powerful. The reason people like Einstein and Steve Jobs became successful is because they had that same addictive energy and put it towards something society doesn't deem negative.


If you can redirect your passion for getting baked on the sofa into something productive it's amazing what can happen.


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: Asante]
    #28602906 - 12/30/23 03:15 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
A former friend of mine, as a teen, glorified alcoholism. Only at age 50 could he quit, and this only with a lot of Jesus.








Once again I think my post was completely lost :lol:


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28602909 - 12/30/23 03:19 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:

Literally anyone you look at in our society as someone who has made it in life with their passion they were an adict.



Err, no.

Also: "addict".

This is one of the many attempts to somehow justify self-destructive or at least unproductive behavior by some kind of flawed logic. Fool yourself if you must; it's still ridiculous. Smoking pot all day doesn't put you on the same level as Einstein. Now get off that couch and do something productive.








Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Handel had to be institutionalized because he was insane.
Leonardo da Vinci cut off his own ear.
Really creative people have had demons in their lives. They are prone to addiction.
Your comment was unnecessarily mean.
People struggle with addiction. Isn’t as simple as get up and go to work. People can’t get paid unless they have an address in a lot of cases for one example.





I was actually hoping for a post like koraks and more to only prove my point further. Everyone is allowed to have their own opinions koraks isn't mean he is just uneducated and probably stuck in his ways :shrug:


And the defense to that will probably be a jab at my own habits or my spelling errors cause thats all he's got.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28602913 - 12/30/23 03:22 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

people like Einstein and Steve Jobs




people like one of the defining people in physics of the last century, and a thief.


--------------------
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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28602914 - 12/30/23 03:22 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Handel had to be institutionalized because he was insane.
Leonardo da Vinci cut off his own ear.




Is your google broken or what?
Handel led a productive life, migrating as a successful musician and composer to England, where he enjoyed even more success, adapting his style to what was fashionable as needed. Leonardo lived to a ripe old age and no signs are present of any mental instability other than perhaps a very severe infatuation with his somewhat young lover.

Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:
The point is that the energy and drive is the same with addiction.




No, it isn't.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 2
    #28602916 - 12/30/23 03:25 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:
Notice how right off the bat it is met with negativity.



Yeah, weird huh, how people become all negative when we're talking about how people have their lives destroyed because of addiction issues.

My fiancee works in psychiatry and there's really nothing funny about the 'energy' of a game-addicted teenager with zero social contacts, a failure to stay in any form of educational program, money problems and dysfunctional family ties because they're glued to a monitor all day. There's also nothing funny about the homeless people my mother-in-law used to care for many of whom ended up in the streets due to mostly alcohol addiction.

So odd that people would make a problem of addition. They must be batshit crazy.

Get your head from the clouds, son. A turd only looks like a piece of chocolate if you don't look at it closely. Addiction and passion or dedication may look the same to you up to the point where you switch on the grey mass of blubber between your ears. I suggest you start doing that.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602917 - 12/30/23 03:27 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

I was thinking of schuman. The principal still stands.


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] * 3
    #28602918 - 12/30/23 03:28 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:
Notice how right off the bat it is met with negativity.



Yeah, weird huh, how people become all negative when we're talking about how people have their lives destroyed because of addiction issues.

My fiancee works in psychiatry and there's really nothing funny about the 'energy' of a game-addicted teenager with zero social contacts, a failure to stay in any form of educational program, money problems and dysfunctional family ties because they're glued to a monitor all day. There's also nothing funny about the homeless people my mother-in-law used to care for many of whom ended up in the streets due to mostly alcohol addiction.

So odd that people would make a problem of addition. They must be batshit crazy.

Get your head from the clouds, son. A turd only looks like a piece of chocolate if you don't look at it closely. Addiction and passion or dedication may look the same to you up to the point where you switch on the grey mass of blubber between your ears. I suggest you start doing that.







Lmao I was homeless for 7 years and lost most of the people I love to addiction and have been 6 years clean off the needle and almost 1 year off alcohol.



It kind of sounds like some projection is going on on your part. Maybe you've been attached to screens a little too much?

:smug:


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 03:34 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Addiction [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 2
    #28602919 - 12/30/23 03:29 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
I was thinking of schuman. The principal still stands.



No, the principle does not stand. Your lack of ability to discern things is the issue here.


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602922 - 12/30/23 03:32 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

I was one of those people your fiance worked with and also one of those homeless people your mother in law worked with and cared for.


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 03:39 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28602924 - 12/30/23 03:39 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:
I was one of those people your fiance works with



I'm sorry to hear about your troubled past. It doesn't change anything about the fatal flaws in your reasoning.

This website is about harm reduction/prevention. Addiction is no joke, as you well know. It's also incomparable in a physical, psychological and social sense to dedication to a passion such as science, art etc.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] * 3
    #28602925 - 12/30/23 03:40 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

What I discerned was, you told him to get off the couch and get his head out of the clouds. When the guy is talking about addiction.

It’s a daily struggle for people. It’s not something that can just be set aside on the couch and walked away from.
An incredibly dismissive suggestion like that needed some correction.

No offense.
But haven’t you heard the story Richard Pryor told about coming back to crack after years of never using it. It’s not something that just goes away.


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (12/30/23 03:51 AM)


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction *DELETED* [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28602927 - 12/30/23 03:47 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Post deleted by Powdered_Toastman

Reason for deletion: Repeated post


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28602929 - 12/30/23 03:50 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Perhaps I misinterpreted Koraks. Thank you Powderedtoastman.  Hope you have a good night.


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28602930 - 12/30/23 03:51 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:
I was one of those people your fiance works with



I'm sorry to hear about your troubled past. It doesn't change anything about the fatal flaws in your reasoning.

This website is about harm reduction/prevention. Addiction is no joke, as you well know. It's also incomparable in a physical, psychological and social sense to dedication to a passion such as science, art etc.







Honestly dont need any apologies or sorries from anyone that was not why i wrote this post was to get sympathy for my troubled past and I  really don't care.


From one addict to another it's nice to hear things like my post because often times the only other people who get it are addicts going through it too. Often times we are met with the reaction you just had in the world even far into recovery because we have been deemed "addict". Was trying to spread some love on the forums tonight instead of shitpost for once for anyone who might be struggling. I have a lot of friends who are Alive and still struggling on this board. Im not sure why you met my post with such hostility and judgement but it was not to make something silly about it but to just give some encouragement in someone's life who might need to hear that right now. I've been talked out of ending my own life with hearing some solid love from a stranger in a very similar manner. Also humor is a way I cope with trauma. You don't have to like the post and that's fine but maybe the post wasn't for you then? I still hope you have a great night koraks and don't have any ill will or negative intent about you. Your feelings are valid and you are allowed to have your own opinions.


The post was not to say that someone smoking pot on the couch was Einstein. That's how I know my point was lost and it wasn't conveyed well. It is just straight to that word not being a joke and carrying so much negativity but for someone who is an addict and that's always gonna be a part of you does it need to he so shamed and negative? I'm not saying I'm Einstein or Steve Jobs in fact I'm one of the dumbest people I know.



--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 03:57 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28602931 - 12/30/23 04:02 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Perhaps I misinterpreted Koraks.



You misinterpreted me because you didn't actually read what I wrote.

Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:
Im not sure why you met my post with such hostility and judgement but it was not to make something silly about it but to just give some encouragement in someone's life who might need to hear that right now.



If you want to give people who struggle with addiction encouragement, then there are plenty of good ways to do that. What does NOT help is saying "sush baby, you're just like Einstein, he was an addict too, so it's alright". Because it's not - it's a lie, it's not helping anyone and at worst it's going to misinterpreted by kids considering popping some oxy's because hey, there's no real difference between one kind of addiction and another, right?

It's fine to point out that we need to ditch the stigma of addiction. That's a very long road, indeed, and it would definitely help if we walked that road a little further.
At the same time, it's pertinently dangerous to normalize addiction, because although being addicted is not a choice, there are most definitely choices that people make that get them into that situation. Maintaining at least part of the stigma DOES help kids to prevent this, at least some of them. Accept and respect them if they somehow can't avoid ending up in that shitty situation. But warn them for it when it's still possible. That's why addiction should never be normalized.

I'm fine with qualifying addiction as a disease, an affliction and something that should be cured instead of criminalized. The risk in doing so, however, is that all individual responsibility is removed. "I'm only an addict because it's in my genes, I really can't help it." "It's a disease, something my body/brain does, I have no control over it." Yes, you do have some control over it, and especially at the stage where choices are still relatively easy to make - i.e. before addiction actually exists.

If you want to somehow help people who struggle with addiction by showing them that they are accepted human beings just like any other, fine. Try doing so without putting at risk especially younger people who are at the point of making very profound choices about the course of their lives. It doesn't help them if they read some inane bullshit about addiction somehow being comparable to a commitment to science, art etc. The net effect of your words may turn out to do more harm than good.


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] * 2
    #28602932 - 12/30/23 04:05 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago)

You are really turning this into something it's not at all man :shrug:





--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] * 1
    #28602936 - 12/30/23 04:18 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago)

I am an addict koraks. I don't get your point. Clearly you have a very strong opinion about that word and you ironically are part of the problem and what makes it hard for addicts to navigate through the world. I am literally an addict. Someone who struggles with addiction. It is obvious that you haven't. It's a slow process. I went from shooting up with puddle water to eating shrooms and smoking weed. Did I transfer addictions? Yes. Was it harm reductive though? You bet.



What part of my post suggested for kids to take oxy? I'm all for debate but you are whack korak :lol:





Maybe you need to get up off the couch more :lol:


I've worked my ass off from coast to coast and dealt with enough to honestly give a shit about opinions like yours anymore.



Kindly go fuck yourself koraks


I haven't laughed so hard at a post in a minute. Thank you koraks.

Thank you :laugh2:


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 06:11 AM)


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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28602938 - 12/30/23 04:28 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago)

Carl Sagan of Sarcasmology much?


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: Asante]
    #28602939 - 12/30/23 04:31 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago)

That guy was addicted to space



--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 2
    #28602940 - 12/30/23 04:36 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago)

There's a problem with your reading comprehension, it seems. I'm going to put it very clearly here, one more time. Maybe when you've managed to get yourself together a little bit after this massive meltdown you can give it another go trying to wrap your head around a few simple things.

Addiction and a passion for art, science etc. have very little in common apart from involving repetitive behaviors. So do pooping, breathing, sunrise and apparently posting on forums.

Anyone who struggles with addiction in my view deserves compassion, support and help in hopefully recovering a degree of autonomy that allows them to lead a productive, fulfilling and happy life.

Anyone who struggles with addiction and cannot or does not want to attempt to recover still deserves the same basic respect, compassion etc. as any other human being.

Being addicted is not so much a choice, as an involuntary pattern that's hard to break. In my native language, the common word for addiction actually transliterates into 'enslavement'. I think that's an appropriate term.

Notwithstanding the above, the path towards addiction involves voluntary choices. For these choices, one should take responsibility. Without this responsibility, becoming addicted would be a twist of fate. And if that's the case, recovery is a similar twist of fate one has no influence on. Not taking responsibility for the first steps that lead to addiction will make the process of recovery very difficult and any recovery unsustainable.

Every society in human history has recognized addiction as a problem for the individual and their social context. That's why measures to prevent addiction are codified in every major religion and legal system. They're massive big flashing warning signs that say "DO NOT GO THERE". Warning signs serve a purpose.

Any attempt to normalize the path towards addiction or deny the responsibility in taking steps on that path are ultimately counter-productive erosions of the massive warning signs that we NEED in order to have the best chance of a reasonably happy and fulfilling life.

This leaves us with the dichotomy of having to respect and help those who struggle with addiction, and at the same time vehemently discourage and warn those who might start on a path towards it. We have to do both at the same time.

I can't put it any clearer than that. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I hope you find a new balance in life that puts you in a better place than you evidently are now.


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602949 - 12/30/23 04:56 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago)



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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 2
    #28602950 - 12/30/23 05:01 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago)

Yeah yeah, hide instead of confront.

Grow a fucking pair. You're not a victim. As long as you keep believing that, you're fucked. Now go and unfuck yourself.


Edited by koraks (12/30/23 05:02 AM)


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602955 - 12/30/23 05:22 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

:lol:


You have no idea what you're talking about


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28602960 - 12/30/23 05:36 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

Nah. I do. But you're presently too butthurt or your personality is too externalizing to consider points of view that cause your cognitive dissonance. That's OK, but it's your loss, not anyone else's.

Good luck with your problem.


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602964 - 12/30/23 05:38 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

How am I butthurt? I'm just chillin and find this pretty hilarious actually :lol:



you're the one gettin all hot and bothered it sounds like :shrug:





--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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Invisiblekoraks
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Posts: 26,670
Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28602967 - 12/30/23 05:42 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

Riiight. 'night, sport.


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28602969 - 12/30/23 05:44 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

It's like 5am :lol:


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28602994 - 12/30/23 06:23 AM (29 days, 8 hours ago)

A white guy "wanting to take the N Word back" was made to eat it again by a black guy.

One does not simply.. addict.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28603008 - 12/30/23 06:57 AM (29 days, 8 hours ago)

Jesus fucking Christ.

I tried to get through the wall of whatever the fuck all that was before commenting, but gave up. So I'm just gonna go ahead and comment anyway.

First of all, let's just throw out some terms here. We got addiction, but we also have compulsion. In talking about addiction, we have psychological addiction and physical addiction, and both of those could easily be broken down into further sub-categories.

Then we have psychological predisposition to addictions and compulsions, self-medication, seeking or running away from various mental or social states, etc.

Humans are prone to both addictive and compulsive behaviors. The vast majority will fall into them over the course of their lives. When PROFESSIONALS (like some people's SO's) assess the severity of an addiction, the effect it has on someone's health and relationships is paramount. And this is where what the thing is matters immensely. As does access to it, how expensive it is, etc.

Koraks jumps immediately to "sitting on the couch smoking weed." I can say right now that if we're narrowly defining this issue as having to do with substance use, then sitting on a couch smoking weed-as a concept- represents the healthiest and most restorative times in my life. Sitting on a couch implies being in a room with other people, being social. Probably hitting a bong or dab rig, so easier on my lungs. Probably discussing philosophy, politics, music, culture. Probably drinking water. Of course I've met my share of burnouts, people who shouldn't smoke, people who get irritable the second they stop, etc. That doesn't make the generalized image any less stupid and juvenile.

Cannabis is just such a stupid thing to argue about. Weed addiction is a lot closer to sex addiction or food addiction than it is heroin or cigarettes. I believe it represents a compulsion more than anything else. Cultural and social factors are key, and the combination of differing brain chemistries, differing cannabinoid profiles, and different modes of ingestion makes it an absolute clusterfuck for trying to make generalizations. But I guess it's the best one to pick if you're trying to push buttons round these parts. And essential if you want to harp on "harm reduction" as the main purpose of this site, but can't find anyone advocating for crack smoking or huffing butane. (Not gonna lie, koraks, I'm a little disappointed to see all this shit you spewed. Might want to figure out why the fuck you felt the need.)

As for all these tortured souls who did great things, I'm a little skeptical. I'm not necessarily so enamored of every dead white guy that my teachers told me was important. I'm not necessarily grateful to Einstein for helping to open Pandora's Box. I'm not convinced there weren't others out there with a healthy work-life balance doing good work, whose names we'll never know. I'm not convinced that some musicians HAVE to drink themselves to death- I rather think that's usually a function of the environments where they play in this fucked up capitalistic society. I think we're conditioned to believe that great work requires sacrifice of our mental and physical health, family relationships, etc., because convincing us to take it easy is bad for businesss.

Oh, yeah, and fuck Steve Jobs. I'm sure stealing other people's intellectual work and building a monopoly on the backs of underpaid Chinese workers (edit:Slaves) really takes it out of a guy, but hey, Kissinger and Stalin had busy work schedules, too.

All that said, yeah, I think it key to manage our addictions and compulsions, and channel them in the direction we'd like to go. But also not lie to ourselves about their harmful effects.


Edited by B Traven (12/30/23 07:32 AM)


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Addiction [Re: B Traven]
    #28603043 - 12/30/23 08:11 AM (29 days, 6 hours ago)

As an addict who's watched some pretty smart and some even brilliant people die, or just fuck themselves completely over due to their addictions, myself included. I agree with korak more than anyone on here.

Yes a lot of smart people have neurodivergent brains, and can have to mental health issues, and addiction. But far too many people think that this is somehow a badge that means they're special, or a mark that signifies their intelligence.

One of my very best friends had some undiagnosed schizo disorder, he was a brilliant artist, and potentially amazing musician. Kid would pick up any instrument and be able to do something with it.

He also believed he could somehow transmute "poisons" into medicine, didn't trust doctors at all ( so he never got treated for Lyme either, which probably fucked his head worse)  so he thought his heroine addiction was nothing. He could stop whenever he wanted until it was really bad.

And the worst part was everyone around him, for a long long time at least, just treated him like a crazy genius, and this was just part of his process.

https://www.jvleahyfh.com/obituary/zachary-smith?fh_id=13531

Here's my hommies obituary.

Alot of smart people may be addicts but be careful about glorifying that shit.


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Addiction [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #28603064 - 12/30/23 08:29 AM (29 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:
I tried to get through the wall of whatever the fuck all that was before commenting, but gave up. So I'm just gonna go ahead and comment anyway.

[snip]

(Not gonna lie, koraks, I'm a little disappointed to see all this shit you spewed. Might want to figure out why the fuck you felt the need.)





You'll have to 'get through the wall of whatever' to understand. Cherry-picking from an argumentation only contributes to the "absolute clusterfuck for trying to make generalizations." Taking in the full scope of my argumentation may lead you to the interesting insight that we agree on quite a few essential points.

One thing we may not agree on, and that's perfectly fine with me, is the fact that I deliberately chose a sharp and confrontational tone. Sometimes a good kick in the posterior is justified. The world isn't all roses and unicorns. And some lines of reasoning, or even the suggestion thereof, are plain delusional bullshit. The ignore function is available on this forum to those who'd rather not witness this being pointed out.


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Offlinesyncro
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28603094 - 12/30/23 08:53 AM (29 days, 6 hours ago)

Says she talks to angels
They call her out by her name


Yeah, she gives a smile when the pain comes
The pain gonna make everything alright


Perhaps it is the pain of harder addictions that deepen the soul.

The drive or the life force is the same for addiction or the creative. Gifts are not necessarily external or visible. For addiction be sure also to look for your gifts as we can forget them.


Edited by syncro (12/30/23 09:04 AM)


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Invisiblebadchad
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Posts: 13,372
Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28603150 - 12/30/23 09:34 AM (29 days, 5 hours ago)

"Addiction" has a negative connotation because by definition, it describes a series of behaviors that result in adverse consequences.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 2
    #28603175 - 12/30/23 09:58 AM (29 days, 5 hours ago)

Debating someone's choice of words, opinions etc takes away from the point.
Addiction is life threatening for many. Affects almost everyone. Society is greatly affected.
Demonizing addiction enforces the barrier of the addicted to move forward, access services, etc
Many people find ways out. Many perish
The importance of the post is stop demonizing it


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28603224 - 12/30/23 11:28 AM (29 days, 3 hours ago)

I like the overall message of your post, Toastman.  :heart:
Addiction is conditioned to be a shameful thing because it shows weakness, and society prefers strength over weakness.
But overcoming addiction is a sign of strength, so it kind of comes full circle in a way.
I'm not a big fan of the huge amounts of random stock images you're posting here, it distracts from the beautiful point you are trying to make.


--------------------
:rave::rave::rave: I dropped a trance track "Peace Love & Trance": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4uQBM-mRYU ; :raver2::raver2::raver2::raveface:


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Invisiblebirdeatingspider
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] * 3
    #28603235 - 12/30/23 11:43 AM (29 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
There's a problem with your reading comprehension, it seems. I'm going to put it very clearly here, one more time. Maybe when you've managed to get yourself together a little bit after this massive meltdown you can give it another go trying to wrap your head around a few simple things.

Addiction and a passion for art, science etc. have very little in common apart from involving repetitive behaviors. So do pooping, breathing, sunrise and apparently posting on forums.

Anyone who struggles with addiction in my view deserves compassion, support and help in hopefully recovering a degree of autonomy that allows them to lead a productive, fulfilling and happy life.

Anyone who struggles with addiction and cannot or does not want to attempt to recover still deserves the same basic respect, compassion etc. as any other human being.

Being addicted is not so much a choice, as an involuntary pattern that's hard to break. In my native language, the common word for addiction actually transliterates into 'enslavement'. I think that's an appropriate term.

Notwithstanding the above, the path towards addiction involves voluntary choices. For these choices, one should take responsibility. Without this responsibility, becoming addicted would be a twist of fate. And if that's the case, recovery is a similar twist of fate one has no influence on. Not taking responsibility for the first steps that lead to addiction will make the process of recovery very difficult and any recovery unsustainable.

Every society in human history has recognized addiction as a problem for the individual and their social context. That's why measures to prevent addiction are codified in every major religion and legal system. They're massive big flashing warning signs that say "DO NOT GO THERE". Warning signs serve a purpose.

Any attempt to normalize the path towards addiction or deny the responsibility in taking steps on that path are ultimately counter-productive erosions of the massive warning signs that we NEED in order to have the best chance of a reasonably happy and fulfilling life.

This leaves us with the dichotomy of having to respect and help those who struggle with addiction, and at the same time vehemently discourage and warn those who might start on a path towards it. We have to do both at the same time.

I can't put it any clearer than that. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I hope you find a new balance in life that puts you in a better place than you evidently are now.




I'm seeing a pattern of black and white thinking- on the topic of psychology, that won't fly.
As the OP says, what some call passion, others obsession. Other examples:

Some are brilliant, others are deranged.
Some a high functioning addict, to others simply self medicating.

There is a difference between 'normalizing ' and 'de-stigmatizing'.

The latter eliminates the shame and self hatred, that these very programs built to keep kids off drugs, have contributed to.


Addiction has many unique causes for individuals, as you have stated. Which implies that we are dealing with a spectrum here, not one way or another.

Shame and self hatred, feelings of worthlessness or not belonging or having anything to contribute to society.. these are some of the big examples as to why people fall into, and become trapped in addiction.

The current way teaches kids to not only think the worst of selves if they experience addiction, and it also teaches the next malleable generation how to view addicts.
Hell, even some drugs are 'harder' and extra dangerous, stay away.

This set up has the unfortunate effect of giving depressed or anxious, hopeless, etc people, a reason to do drugs.
For those already in the throws of it, there's little to no desire or intense shame keeping them from getting help.
Most addicts want help, IME!

IIRC, you have self identify as a moderate?
The logical attack on addiction would be centralized:

Dismantle the hard edged, Nixon-era thinking, criminalizing addicts, etc.
And take the word 'addict' or 'junkie', etc and change the stereotype.

Simultaneously, tone down the villainizing of what we teach to our children, and population that has not tried them yet.
Instead offer up to date, real info that teaches, instead of instilling fear.

No one has said not to warn the kids, but I think along with the debasing stereotypes, the vilified content, it is overbearing on our youth.

That same group you say would "NEED" something from this current way?
There will be another group that sees how big a deal drugs are.. it breeds curiousity.

Gradual changes to the current, outdated system, will give us an idea if we are headed in the right direction.
But somethings gotta give. And it needs to start with some serious changes to our current, fixed attitude towards addiction.


--------------------

From all I may be, or have been before,
To mingle with the Universe, and feel
What I can ne’er express, yet cannot all conceal.


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Invisibleloladoreen
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman]
    #28603253 - 12/30/23 12:01 PM (29 days, 3 hours ago)

Your not wrong


--------------------
“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Posts: 5,589
Re: Addiction [Re: birdeatingspider] * 2
    #28603281 - 12/30/23 12:29 PM (29 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

birdeatingspider said:
Quote:

koraks said:
There's a problem with your reading comprehension, it seems. I'm going to put it very clearly here, one more time. Maybe when you've managed to get yourself together a little bit after this massive meltdown you can give it another go trying to wrap your head around a few simple things.

Addiction and a passion for art, science etc. have very little in common apart from involving repetitive behaviors. So do pooping, breathing, sunrise and apparently posting on forums.

Anyone who struggles with addiction in my view deserves compassion, support and help in hopefully recovering a degree of autonomy that allows them to lead a productive, fulfilling and happy life.

Anyone who struggles with addiction and cannot or does not want to attempt to recover still deserves the same basic respect, compassion etc. as any other human being.

Being addicted is not so much a choice, as an involuntary pattern that's hard to break. In my native language, the common word for addiction actually transliterates into 'enslavement'. I think that's an appropriate term.

Notwithstanding the above, the path towards addiction involves voluntary choices. For these choices, one should take responsibility. Without this responsibility, becoming addicted would be a twist of fate. And if that's the case, recovery is a similar twist of fate one has no influence on. Not taking responsibility for the first steps that lead to addiction will make the process of recovery very difficult and any recovery unsustainable.

Every society in human history has recognized addiction as a problem for the individual and their social context. That's why measures to prevent addiction are codified in every major religion and legal system. They're massive big flashing warning signs that say "DO NOT GO THERE". Warning signs serve a purpose.

Any attempt to normalize the path towards addiction or deny the responsibility in taking steps on that path are ultimately counter-productive erosions of the massive warning signs that we NEED in order to have the best chance of a reasonably happy and fulfilling life.

This leaves us with the dichotomy of having to respect and help those who struggle with addiction, and at the same time vehemently discourage and warn those who might start on a path towards it. We have to do both at the same time.

I can't put it any clearer than that. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I hope you find a new balance in life that puts you in a better place than you evidently are now.




I'm seeing a pattern of black and white thinking- on the topic of psychology, that won't fly.
As the OP says, what some call passion, others obsession. Other examples:

Some are brilliant, others are deranged.
Some a high functioning addict, to others simply self medicating.

There is a difference between 'normalizing ' and 'de-stigmatizing'.

The latter eliminates the shame and self hatred, that these very programs built to keep kids off drugs, have contributed to.


Addiction has many unique causes for individuals, as you have stated. Which implies that we are dealing with a spectrum here, not one way or another.

Shame and self hatred, feelings of worthlessness or not belonging or having anything to contribute to society.. these are some of the big examples as to why people fall into, and become trapped in addiction.

The current way teaches kids to not only think the worst of selves if they experience addiction, and it also teaches the next malleable generation how to view addicts.
Hell, even some drugs are 'harder' and extra dangerous, stay away.

This set up has the unfortunate effect of giving depressed or anxious, hopeless, etc people, a reason to do drugs.
For those already in the throws of it, there's little to no desire or intense shame keeping them from getting help.
Most addicts want help, IME!

IIRC, you have self identify as a moderate?
The logical attack on addiction would be centralized:

Dismantle the hard edged, Nixon-era thinking, criminalizing addicts, etc.
And take the word 'addict' or 'junkie', etc and change the stereotype.

Simultaneously, tone down the villainizing of what we teach to our children, and population that has not tried them yet.
Instead offer up to date, real info that teaches, instead of instilling fear.

No one has said not to warn the kids, but I think along with the debasing stereotypes, the vilified content, it is overbearing on our youth.

That same group you say would "NEED" something from this current way?
There will be another group that sees how big a deal drugs are.. it breeds curiousity.

Gradual changes to the current, outdated system, will give us an idea if we are headed in the right direction.
But somethings gotta give. And it needs to start with some serious changes to our current, fixed attitude towards addiction.





Thank you. At least one person got the point I was trying to make.


I don't always have the best words and that's my fault so the message of my posts gets easily lost sometimes. I wasnt trying to normalize self destructive behaviors or trying to suggest somebody relapse. If you have relapsed it can be detrimental how you feel about your progress after. The shame from society can cause that one relpase to turn into a month long bender or even your death. So it's nice to remind yourself hey it's okay relapse happens and it's okay to start again and recognize we are human than to turn into dobby the house elf on yourself saying youre a pathetic worthless piece of shit and maybe they are all right? Maybe you cant do it. That kind of thinking needs to be stepped out of immediately during a relapse because if you are like me once i start to spiral i go from 0 to homeless real quick.


This post was simply to just remind addicts they are human too and to not be so hard on themselves. As an addict all I am is hard on myself and it usually is what causes me to relpase. It is nice to remind yourself sometimes you are doing better than you thought and to take it one day at a time.




Quote:

B Traven said:
Oh, yeah, and fuck Steve Jobs. I'm sure stealing other people's intellectual work and building a monopoly on the backs of underpaid Chinese workers (edit:Slaves) really takes it out of a guy, but hey, Kissinger and Stalin had busy work schedules, too.








Also I wasn't trying to glorify Steve Jobs and Einstein it was the opposite. I was trying to humanize them by saying even the people that are thought of as highly successful or great or even the minds that pushed us through to next Era of society were literal batshit addicts and not some gods. I literally can't think of one historical figure of any color that was not addicted to whatever it was they were doing (once again people only choose to think of drugs when this word pops up) whether that meant they had to be shady or whatever my point is that's addictive behaviors. I'm not saying to be like them at all or strive for that. Just saying addiction can be a super power if guided right. It doesn't have to be this super shameful thing that every addict needs to feel cursed with.

You could put that energy towards self care and spreading love for example.


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 01:01 PM)


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 2
    #28603305 - 12/30/23 12:56 PM (29 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

B Traven said:
I tried to get through the wall of whatever the fuck all that was before commenting, but gave up. So I'm just gonna go ahead and comment anyway.

[snip]

(Not gonna lie, koraks, I'm a little disappointed to see all this shit you spewed. Might want to figure out why the fuck you felt the need.)





You'll have to 'get through the wall of whatever' to understand. Cherry-picking from an argumentation only contributes to the "absolute clusterfuck for trying to make generalizations." Taking in the full scope of my argumentation may lead you to the interesting insight that we agree on quite a few essential points.

One thing we may not agree on, and that's perfectly fine with me, is the fact that I deliberately chose a sharp and confrontational tone. Sometimes a good kick in the posterior is justified. The world isn't all roses and unicorns. And some lines of reasoning, or even the suggestion thereof, are plain delusional bullshit. The ignore function is available on this forum to those who'd rather not witness this being pointed out.





Stop giving yourself so much credit this is the internet. That was the least of what you did. In fact I would respect you if you could manage to kick me in the nads through the forums. I've already lived through a hell you probably never will. I rode freight trains around the country for almost 7 years living outside i was even an ironworker on a bridge in maine at one point and a sub contractor for my own seaweed boat raking 3-4 ton of seaweed a tide in the deep waters of the nova scotia and risked death daily and laughed in its face.

You dont want to know what it takes to offend me but it aint you koraks.

You seem to not listen to me either so why listen to you? You keep thinking I'm reacting a certain way based off of an image of addicts you've created for yourself.

My life goes on regardless of what you say on a forum board.



You really do crack me up :lol:


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 01:08 PM)


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28603323 - 12/30/23 01:16 PM (29 days, 1 hour ago)

Okay mate, this is your drama. You own it, go have at it.

Hope you find your way in life. All the best.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Addiction [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 3
    #28603340 - 12/30/23 01:29 PM (29 days, 1 hour ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Schuman had to be institutionalized because he was insane.
Leonardo da Vinci cut off his own ear.
Really creative people have had demons in their lives. They are prone to addiction.
Your comment was unnecessarily mean.
People struggle with addiction. Isn’t as simple as get up and go to work. People can’t get paid unless they have an address in a lot of cases for one example.




van Gogh cut off his ear. He had much worse mental struggles than da Vinci.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: Addiction [Re: Brian Jones]
    #28603343 - 12/30/23 01:32 PM (29 days, 1 hour ago)

Thank you. I corrected the comment.


--------------------

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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28603475 - 12/30/23 03:36 PM (28 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

B Traven said:
I tried to get through the wall of whatever the fuck all that was before commenting, but gave up. So I'm just gonna go ahead and comment anyway.

[snip]

(Not gonna lie, koraks, I'm a little disappointed to see all this shit you spewed. Might want to figure out why the fuck you felt the need.)





You'll have to 'get through the wall of whatever' to understand. Cherry-picking from an argumentation only contributes to the "absolute clusterfuck for trying to make generalizations." Taking in the full scope of my argumentation may lead you to the interesting insight that we agree on quite a few essential points.

One thing we may not agree on, and that's perfectly fine with me, is the fact that I deliberately chose a sharp and confrontational tone. Sometimes a good kick in the posterior is justified. The world isn't all roses and unicorns. And some lines of reasoning, or even the suggestion thereof, are plain delusional bullshit. The ignore function is available on this forum to those who'd rather not witness this being pointed out.




I simply meant that I didn't wade through the entirety of your back-and-forth argument before offering my thoughts on the first round. Just imagine my post occurring earlier in the thread if need be. Most of my post had nothing to do with your or anyone else's comments, just my thoughts on the matter.

I know loads of people who drink too much, are addicted to alcohol/cocaine/opiates, etc. If I wanted to be confrontational and offer some tough love, there are many things I could say. Choosing weed and laziness as your starting point is still an odd choice. And to be clear, that's what my "cluster-fuck" comment was geared towards: examination of cannabis, one of the most complex and least physically addictive substances in wide use.


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Edited by B Traven (12/30/23 03:39 PM)


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InvisiblePowdered_Toastman
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Re: Addiction [Re: B Traven] * 3
    #28603480 - 12/30/23 03:38 PM (28 days, 23 hours ago)

No one knows addicts better than people who haven't struggled with addiction it seems :shrug:


--------------------
"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

You are God and I am You


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 2
    #28603490 - 12/30/23 03:50 PM (28 days, 23 hours ago)

Quote:


Also I wasn't trying to glorify Steve Jobs and Einstein it was the opposite. I was trying to humanize them by saying even the people that are thought of as highly successful or great or even the minds that pushed us through to next Era of society were literal batshit addicts and not some gods. I literally can't think of one historical figure of any color that was not addicted to whatever it was they were doing (once again people only choose to think of drugs when this word pops up) whether that meant they had to be shady or whatever my point is that's addictive behaviors. I'm not saying to be like them at all or strive for that. Just saying addiction can be a super power if guided right. It doesn't have to be this super shameful thing that every addict needs to feel cursed with.

You could put that energy towards self care and spreading love for example.





I figured as much, and I feel you. In addition to trying to say pretty much what you did here, I was addressing the false dichotomy between "people with a passion" who "do good in the world" and "addicts chasing a buzz." Also, I never turn down a chance to say "Fuck Steve Jobs" lol

Lots of people will say "Don't normalize and enable drug use" while simultaneously normalizing and enabling batshit crazy work-life balances and uncivil behavior.


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Offlinethirtygoats
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28603646 - 12/30/23 05:56 PM (28 days, 21 hours ago)

People who  are like that are the reason war exists. People who use drugs don't want to go to war. They want peace. One for all, not all for one. Drugs are a renewable resource, so technically dopamine is a renewable resource, and can't run out. The problem is when people neglect their health, and are not strong/healthy enough to deal with the negative effects, and do something insane.

The world leaders are all against drugs, yet they are all preparing for the next world war, because they are insane.


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Re: Addiction [Re: thirtygoats] * 2
    #28604459 - 12/31/23 10:36 AM (28 days, 4 hours ago)

the aztecs used psilocybin.  those guys were dicks.


Edited by BeefSupremeJr (12/31/23 10:37 AM)


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OfflineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: Addiction [Re: BeefSupremeJr] * 2
    #28604463 - 12/31/23 10:40 AM (28 days, 4 hours ago)

ptm i hear what youre saying bud.  As someone whos struggled with drug addiction most of my life, I could argue that Im doing more than just chasing buzzes.  For sure, there are those, but a lot of what I have done with drugs was an earnest attempt to become better for my friends and family.  Id like to say that some of my efforts, at least, were not in vain.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Addiction [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #28604465 - 12/31/23 10:43 AM (28 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
the aztecs used psilocybin.  those guys were dicks.




I wonder, though, how that came to pass. Something tells me they co-opted the psiloybe ceremonies from the Mazatepecs and other groups in what's now southern Mexico.


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OfflineBeefSupremeJr
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Re: Addiction [Re: B Traven] * 2
    #28604475 - 12/31/23 10:48 AM (28 days, 4 hours ago)

One can literally only wonder.  Ive also known plenty of dicks who co-opted my favorite sacraments, present day.
it happens. 

the nazis used amphetamines as part of their "blitzkreig" warfare program.  not that ive ever considered that a good drug, but andy warhol would have argued that.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Addiction [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
    #28604543 - 12/31/23 11:59 AM (28 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

BeefSupremeJr said:
One can literally only wonder.  Ive also known plenty of dicks who co-opted my favorite sacraments, present day.
it happens. 

the nazis used amphetamines as part of their "blitzkreig" warfare program.  not that ive ever considered that a good drug, but andy warhol would have argued that.




I tried to come up with a handy image for the people I've seen co-opt psilocybin and other substances, but failed. Though I'm still left thinking about whether the Aztecs had people we'd sort of recognize today in their midst. And whether there were any warriors who ingested psilocybin and had epiphanies and decided to drop out and run off into the Yucatan or something.

Yeah, not gonna lie, I LOVE amphetamines as a tool. I totally get why any military operation would employ them. They can help you accomplish and get through just about anything in the short-term. Though I'm lucky to have never had an issue with abusing them. And I have noticed that I'm not super stoked about what they do to my personality. But under the right circumstances, they've literally saved my life. And what's kind of crazy is that not very long ago, they were widely available and consumed in a matter-of-fact fashion, then the cycle of more potent versions and crackdowns began. But really, now, we've just replaced the reality of the 40's and 50's with prescriptions for Adderall.

But yeah, it's pretty nuts if you really get into what-all the Nazis were consuming. Their entire run could practically be seen as an extended meth binge. And might explain some of their psychology/behavior. But they were also heavy into narcotics, and concentration camp guards were given a raion of like 2 liters of vodka per day.


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Addiction [Re: B Traven]
    #28604565 - 12/31/23 12:13 PM (28 days, 2 hours ago)

Quote:

B Traven said:Though I'm still left thinking about whether the Aztecs had people we'd sort of recognize today in their midst. And whether there were any warriors who ingested psilocybin and had epiphanies and decided to drop out and run off into the Yucatan or something.





I'm sure there are.  Like the Native Americans in the USA, there are probably pockets of Aztec people in Mexico and central America.


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OfflineBlastThatBearOff
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
    #28605527 - 01/01/24 08:35 AM (27 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Powdered_Toastman said:
I was one of those people your fiance works with



I'm sorry to hear about your troubled past. It doesn't change anything about the fatal flaws in your reasoning.

This website is about harm reduction/prevention. Addiction is no joke, as you well know. It's also incomparable in a physical, psychological and social sense to dedication to a passion such as science, art etc.




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Re: Addiction [Re: BlastThatBearOff]
    #28605584 - 01/01/24 09:21 AM (27 days, 5 hours ago)

As passionate as say Einstein was about his work he probably still took holidays. The fentanyl addict is a slave to that shit I saw all sorts of them on christmas eve, and new years eve, I see live downtown I see them everyday its 365 days a year of using all day and night, no breaks at all.

I am strongly opposed to using the word addiction for bad habits like "porn addiction" or shopping addiction. If i take away your porn/video games/junk food you are not going to get sick and puke for weeks, you'll be just fine. I bet all sorts of "video game addicts" just spent a week of forced family socializing and none of them required replacement medicine to not puke.

I just don't like that word addiction for anything that doesn't cause withdrawal. I am sure people have obsessions and bad habits that ruin their lives (to internet/porn/video game/shopping/gambling/work etc), I'm not denying that. I just think its wrong to call it an addiction, it minimizes what substance addicts are gong thru. There should be another word or term, "mental addiction" is kinda lame IMO


--------------------
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Re: Addiction [Re: viraldrome]
    #28605589 - 01/01/24 09:25 AM (27 days, 5 hours ago)

If i look at the ease with which i ended dissoiative abuse episodes, to call that addiction does no justice to what alcoholics and junkies go through. Its more "obsession", if you quit your body says GOOD RIDDANCE instead of torture you.


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: Addiction [Re: Powdered_Toastman] * 1
    #28605664 - 01/01/24 10:43 AM (27 days, 4 hours ago)

I believe that "compulsion" and "compulsive disorder" already cover that quite well. I also think they apply to a lot of substances that aren't physically addictive.

Tobacco often gets overlooked because people don't get "fucked up" when they use it. But the way that it takes over your brain and body is right up there with a lot of the harder stuff. Of course I have all sorts of fucked up stories about opiates, but the number of people in my life who just sort of matter-of-factly passed away as a result of chronic alcohol and tobacco use is truly horrifying to think about as well.


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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Addiction [Re: viraldrome] * 1
    #28605720 - 01/01/24 11:35 AM (27 days, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

viraldrome said:
As passionate as say Einstein was about his work he probably still took holidays. The fentanyl addict is a slave to that shit I saw all sorts of them on christmas eve, and new years eve, I see live downtown I see them everyday its 365 days a year of using all day and night, no breaks at all.

I am strongly opposed to using the word addiction for bad habits like "porn addiction" or shopping addiction. If i take away your porn/video games/junk food you are not going to get sick and puke for weeks, you'll be just fine. I bet all sorts of "video game addicts" just spent a week of forced family socializing and none of them required replacement medicine to not puke.

I just don't like that word addiction for anything that doesn't cause withdrawal. I am sure people have obsessions and bad habits that ruin their lives (to internet/porn/video game/shopping/gambling/work etc), I'm not denying that. I just think its wrong to call it an addiction, it minimizes what substance addicts are gong thru. There should be another word or term, "mental addiction" is kinda lame IMO







ad·dic·tion
/əˈdikSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: addiction; plural noun: addictions

    the fact or condition of being addicted to a particular substance, thing, or activity.


--------------------
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Re: Addiction [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake] * 3
    #28606127 - 01/01/24 04:57 PM (26 days, 22 hours ago)



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