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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Powdered_Toastman said: I was one of those people your fiance works with
I'm sorry to hear about your troubled past. It doesn't change anything about the fatal flaws in your reasoning.
This website is about harm reduction/prevention. Addiction is no joke, as you well know. It's also incomparable in a physical, psychological and social sense to dedication to a passion such as science, art etc.
Honestly dont need any apologies or sorries from anyone that was not why i wrote this post was to get sympathy for my troubled past and I really don't care.
From one addict to another it's nice to hear things like my post because often times the only other people who get it are addicts going through it too. Often times we are met with the reaction you just had in the world even far into recovery because we have been deemed "addict". Was trying to spread some love on the forums tonight instead of shitpost for once for anyone who might be struggling. I have a lot of friends who are Alive and still struggling on this board. Im not sure why you met my post with such hostility and judgement but it was not to make something silly about it but to just give some encouragement in someone's life who might need to hear that right now. I've been talked out of ending my own life with hearing some solid love from a stranger in a very similar manner. Also humor is a way I cope with trauma. You don't have to like the post and that's fine but maybe the post wasn't for you then? I still hope you have a great night koraks and don't have any ill will or negative intent about you. Your feelings are valid and you are allowed to have your own opinions.
The post was not to say that someone smoking pot on the couch was Einstein. That's how I know my point was lost and it wasn't conveyed well. It is just straight to that word not being a joke and carrying so much negativity but for someone who is an addict and that's always gonna be a part of you does it need to he so shamed and negative? I'm not saying I'm Einstein or Steve Jobs in fact I'm one of the dumbest people I know.
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 03:57 AM)
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Perhaps I misinterpreted Koraks.
You misinterpreted me because you didn't actually read what I wrote.
Quote:
Powdered_Toastman said: Im not sure why you met my post with such hostility and judgement but it was not to make something silly about it but to just give some encouragement in someone's life who might need to hear that right now.
If you want to give people who struggle with addiction encouragement, then there are plenty of good ways to do that. What does NOT help is saying "sush baby, you're just like Einstein, he was an addict too, so it's alright". Because it's not - it's a lie, it's not helping anyone and at worst it's going to misinterpreted by kids considering popping some oxy's because hey, there's no real difference between one kind of addiction and another, right?
It's fine to point out that we need to ditch the stigma of addiction. That's a very long road, indeed, and it would definitely help if we walked that road a little further. At the same time, it's pertinently dangerous to normalize addiction, because although being addicted is not a choice, there are most definitely choices that people make that get them into that situation. Maintaining at least part of the stigma DOES help kids to prevent this, at least some of them. Accept and respect them if they somehow can't avoid ending up in that shitty situation. But warn them for it when it's still possible. That's why addiction should never be normalized.
I'm fine with qualifying addiction as a disease, an affliction and something that should be cured instead of criminalized. The risk in doing so, however, is that all individual responsibility is removed. "I'm only an addict because it's in my genes, I really can't help it." "It's a disease, something my body/brain does, I have no control over it." Yes, you do have some control over it, and especially at the stage where choices are still relatively easy to make - i.e. before addiction actually exists.
If you want to somehow help people who struggle with addiction by showing them that they are accepted human beings just like any other, fine. Try doing so without putting at risk especially younger people who are at the point of making very profound choices about the course of their lives. It doesn't help them if they read some inane bullshit about addiction somehow being comparable to a commitment to science, art etc. The net effect of your words may turn out to do more harm than good.
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] 2
#28602932 - 12/30/23 04:05 AM (29 days, 11 hours ago) |
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You are really turning this into something it's not at all man 
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks] 1
#28602936 - 12/30/23 04:18 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago) |
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I am an addict koraks. I don't get your point. Clearly you have a very strong opinion about that word and you ironically are part of the problem and what makes it hard for addicts to navigate through the world. I am literally an addict. Someone who struggles with addiction. It is obvious that you haven't. It's a slow process. I went from shooting up with puddle water to eating shrooms and smoking weed. Did I transfer addictions? Yes. Was it harm reductive though? You bet.
What part of my post suggested for kids to take oxy? I'm all for debate but you are whack korak 

Maybe you need to get up off the couch more 
I've worked my ass off from coast to coast and dealt with enough to honestly give a shit about opinions like yours anymore.
Kindly go fuck yourself koraks
I haven't laughed so hard at a post in a minute. Thank you koraks.
Thank you
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
Edited by Powdered_Toastman (12/30/23 06:11 AM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Carl Sagan of Sarcasmology much?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: Addiction [Re: Asante]
#28602939 - 12/30/23 04:31 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago) |
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That guy was addicted to space
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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There's a problem with your reading comprehension, it seems. I'm going to put it very clearly here, one more time. Maybe when you've managed to get yourself together a little bit after this massive meltdown you can give it another go trying to wrap your head around a few simple things.
Addiction and a passion for art, science etc. have very little in common apart from involving repetitive behaviors. So do pooping, breathing, sunrise and apparently posting on forums.
Anyone who struggles with addiction in my view deserves compassion, support and help in hopefully recovering a degree of autonomy that allows them to lead a productive, fulfilling and happy life.
Anyone who struggles with addiction and cannot or does not want to attempt to recover still deserves the same basic respect, compassion etc. as any other human being.
Being addicted is not so much a choice, as an involuntary pattern that's hard to break. In my native language, the common word for addiction actually transliterates into 'enslavement'. I think that's an appropriate term.
Notwithstanding the above, the path towards addiction involves voluntary choices. For these choices, one should take responsibility. Without this responsibility, becoming addicted would be a twist of fate. And if that's the case, recovery is a similar twist of fate one has no influence on. Not taking responsibility for the first steps that lead to addiction will make the process of recovery very difficult and any recovery unsustainable.
Every society in human history has recognized addiction as a problem for the individual and their social context. That's why measures to prevent addiction are codified in every major religion and legal system. They're massive big flashing warning signs that say "DO NOT GO THERE". Warning signs serve a purpose.
Any attempt to normalize the path towards addiction or deny the responsibility in taking steps on that path are ultimately counter-productive erosions of the massive warning signs that we NEED in order to have the best chance of a reasonably happy and fulfilling life.
This leaves us with the dichotomy of having to respect and help those who struggle with addiction, and at the same time vehemently discourage and warn those who might start on a path towards it. We have to do both at the same time.
I can't put it any clearer than that. Now put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I hope you find a new balance in life that puts you in a better place than you evidently are now.
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
#28602949 - 12/30/23 04:56 AM (29 days, 10 hours ago) |
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Yeah yeah, hide instead of confront.
Grow a fucking pair. You're not a victim. As long as you keep believing that, you're fucked. Now go and unfuck yourself.
Edited by koraks (12/30/23 05:02 AM)
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
#28602955 - 12/30/23 05:22 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago) |
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You have no idea what you're talking about
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Nah. I do. But you're presently too butthurt or your personality is too externalizing to consider points of view that cause your cognitive dissonance. That's OK, but it's your loss, not anyone else's.
Good luck with your problem.
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
#28602964 - 12/30/23 05:38 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago) |
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How am I butthurt? I'm just chillin and find this pretty hilarious actually 
you're the one gettin all hot and bothered it sounds like 
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Riiight. 'night, sport.
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Powdered_Toastman



Registered: 05/30/11
Posts: 5,589
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Re: Addiction [Re: koraks]
#28602969 - 12/30/23 05:44 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago) |
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It's like 5am
-------------------- "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." You are God and I am You
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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A white guy "wanting to take the N Word back" was made to eat it again by a black guy.
One does not simply.. addict.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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B Traven
Stranger



Registered: 03/10/20
Posts: 2,479
Loc: Central Megalopolis
Last seen: 2 hours, 6 minutes
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Jesus fucking Christ.
I tried to get through the wall of whatever the fuck all that was before commenting, but gave up. So I'm just gonna go ahead and comment anyway.
First of all, let's just throw out some terms here. We got addiction, but we also have compulsion. In talking about addiction, we have psychological addiction and physical addiction, and both of those could easily be broken down into further sub-categories.
Then we have psychological predisposition to addictions and compulsions, self-medication, seeking or running away from various mental or social states, etc.
Humans are prone to both addictive and compulsive behaviors. The vast majority will fall into them over the course of their lives. When PROFESSIONALS (like some people's SO's) assess the severity of an addiction, the effect it has on someone's health and relationships is paramount. And this is where what the thing is matters immensely. As does access to it, how expensive it is, etc.
Koraks jumps immediately to "sitting on the couch smoking weed." I can say right now that if we're narrowly defining this issue as having to do with substance use, then sitting on a couch smoking weed-as a concept- represents the healthiest and most restorative times in my life. Sitting on a couch implies being in a room with other people, being social. Probably hitting a bong or dab rig, so easier on my lungs. Probably discussing philosophy, politics, music, culture. Probably drinking water. Of course I've met my share of burnouts, people who shouldn't smoke, people who get irritable the second they stop, etc. That doesn't make the generalized image any less stupid and juvenile.
Cannabis is just such a stupid thing to argue about. Weed addiction is a lot closer to sex addiction or food addiction than it is heroin or cigarettes. I believe it represents a compulsion more than anything else. Cultural and social factors are key, and the combination of differing brain chemistries, differing cannabinoid profiles, and different modes of ingestion makes it an absolute clusterfuck for trying to make generalizations. But I guess it's the best one to pick if you're trying to push buttons round these parts. And essential if you want to harp on "harm reduction" as the main purpose of this site, but can't find anyone advocating for crack smoking or huffing butane. (Not gonna lie, koraks, I'm a little disappointed to see all this shit you spewed. Might want to figure out why the fuck you felt the need.)
As for all these tortured souls who did great things, I'm a little skeptical. I'm not necessarily so enamored of every dead white guy that my teachers told me was important. I'm not necessarily grateful to Einstein for helping to open Pandora's Box. I'm not convinced there weren't others out there with a healthy work-life balance doing good work, whose names we'll never know. I'm not convinced that some musicians HAVE to drink themselves to death- I rather think that's usually a function of the environments where they play in this fucked up capitalistic society. I think we're conditioned to believe that great work requires sacrifice of our mental and physical health, family relationships, etc., because convincing us to take it easy is bad for businesss.
Oh, yeah, and fuck Steve Jobs. I'm sure stealing other people's intellectual work and building a monopoly on the backs of underpaid Chinese workers (edit:Slaves) really takes it out of a guy, but hey, Kissinger and Stalin had busy work schedules, too.
All that said, yeah, I think it key to manage our addictions and compulsions, and channel them in the direction we'd like to go. But also not lie to ourselves about their harmful effects.
Edited by B Traven (12/30/23 07:32 AM)
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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 3,942
Last seen: 9 hours, 52 minutes
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As an addict who's watched some pretty smart and some even brilliant people die, or just fuck themselves completely over due to their addictions, myself included. I agree with korak more than anyone on here.
Yes a lot of smart people have neurodivergent brains, and can have to mental health issues, and addiction. But far too many people think that this is somehow a badge that means they're special, or a mark that signifies their intelligence.
One of my very best friends had some undiagnosed schizo disorder, he was a brilliant artist, and potentially amazing musician. Kid would pick up any instrument and be able to do something with it.
He also believed he could somehow transmute "poisons" into medicine, didn't trust doctors at all ( so he never got treated for Lyme either, which probably fucked his head worse) so he thought his heroine addiction was nothing. He could stop whenever he wanted until it was really bad.
And the worst part was everyone around him, for a long long time at least, just treated him like a crazy genius, and this was just part of his process.
https://www.jvleahyfh.com/obituary/zachary-smith?fh_id=13531
Here's my hommies obituary.
Alot of smart people may be addicts but be careful about glorifying that shit.
--------------------
   Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,670
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Quote:
B Traven said: I tried to get through the wall of whatever the fuck all that was before commenting, but gave up. So I'm just gonna go ahead and comment anyway.
[snip]
(Not gonna lie, koraks, I'm a little disappointed to see all this shit you spewed. Might want to figure out why the fuck you felt the need.)
You'll have to 'get through the wall of whatever' to understand. Cherry-picking from an argumentation only contributes to the "absolute clusterfuck for trying to make generalizations." Taking in the full scope of my argumentation may lead you to the interesting insight that we agree on quite a few essential points.
One thing we may not agree on, and that's perfectly fine with me, is the fact that I deliberately chose a sharp and confrontational tone. Sometimes a good kick in the posterior is justified. The world isn't all roses and unicorns. And some lines of reasoning, or even the suggestion thereof, are plain delusional bullshit. The ignore function is available on this forum to those who'd rather not witness this being pointed out.
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syncro
Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,697
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
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Says she talks to angels They call her out by her name
Yeah, she gives a smile when the pain comes The pain gonna make everything alright
Perhaps it is the pain of harder addictions that deepen the soul.
The drive or the life force is the same for addiction or the creative. Gifts are not necessarily external or visible. For addiction be sure also to look for your gifts as we can forget them.
Edited by syncro (12/30/23 09:04 AM)
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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"Addiction" has a negative connotation because by definition, it describes a series of behaviors that result in adverse consequences.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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