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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Throwing $600 at permaculture project. * 2
    #28601695 - 12/29/23 12:23 AM (30 days, 11 hours ago)

So I've decided to go all in on buying a bunch of trees, shrubs, perennial plants, and some seeds. About $700 worth.

I've already dropped $180 on three hazelnut trees (Jefferson Yamhill & Eta). I have them planted in-ground next to my figs, of which I have 9 varieties.

Currently, sitting in various interweb shopping carts I have

Live plants:

(Cancelled)

Blue Hawthorn (Crataegus Schraderana)
Puciumol Medlar
Illinois Everbearing Mulberry
Regent Juneberry
Crandall Current
Ben Lomand Currant
Captivator Gooseberry
Sabine Gooseberry
Norway Spruce

(Coming in March, prolly)
Oregon Grape
Red Gem ™ Goumi
Sweet Scarlet Goumi ™
Orange Glow™ Sea Berry

(Recieved, being kept dormant)
Blue False Indigo
American Groundnut
Blue Moon Honeyberry
Blue Velvet Honeyberry
Blue Hokkaido Honeyberry
Anna Hardy Kiwi (f)
Meader Hardy Kiwi (m)

(Planted)
Red-Osier Dogwood

Seeds:

(Recieved, germination not started)
Princess Tree
Sea Berry
Black Locust
Black Alder
Downy Hawthorn
Midland Hawthorn
Fleshy Hawthorn
English Hawthorn
Carolina Buckthorn
Thornless Honeylocust
Siberian Peashrub
Red Lake Currant
Consort Black Currant
Illinois Bundleflower
Schisandra chinensis
Zizyphus spinosa (sour jujube for rootstock and whole plants)

All that, not counting the hazelnuts I already got, is about $500 $400.

Sea Berry needs both male and female. I got the one patented Orange Glow™, and some seeds from which I should be able to get some males for pollen and some females to compare to the fancy ™ one.

For the Hawthorns, I went with seeds for all but the Schraderana because I couldn't find seeds for that one, and it's supposed to be the best tasting one. The other hawthorns, they're mostly for medicinal use, and possibly rootstock, but I already have two Old Home x Farmingdale 87 pears that make excellent rootstock for pretty much anything a hawthorn rootstock could be used for.

All the Tillamook Goumis are out of stock for the year, apparently, which is the only one I really wanted, but fuck it, I guess. I'll get that one next year.

The red osier dogwood is good for making arrows. the locusts and alder are good nitrogen fixers, and fast lumber/firewood producers. False indigo is a nitrogen fixer. Norway spruce is good for spruce beer and tea The goumis and sea berries are nitrogen fixers. Princess tree is fast growing lumber.Medlar is a fruit that is medieval AF and looks like a butthole, according to Shakespeare in several of his plays. Oregon grape makes fruit and berberine. Groundnut is a nitrogen fixer with edible tubers. siberian peashrub is a nitrogen fixer with edible legumes and maybe my best perennial protein producer.

I think everything else is just fruit. Mulberry is a massive producer of fruit, apparently. The calories per square foot is pretty high for a mature tree. It, along with hazelnut, figs, and pears grafted to bradford pear, will be the powerhouse food producers of my food forest. I don't expect to add much more. This really feels like it's probably enough.

Maybe a spicebush, tho.

I think this covers all 7 layers of permaculture, and should get me off to a good start. I've got a little over a half acre that I've designated for food forest; basically, the front, back, and perimeter of my property. Most of these plants can be propagated from cuttings, runners, suckers, or seed, so I'll be making more of them as I go along rather than buying, like, 20-30 of everything. I might even start a nursery business or something when I get to the point that I don't have room for any more plants.


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Edited by Baby_Hitler (01/19/24 11:25 AM)


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 2
    #28602050 - 12/29/23 09:51 AM (30 days, 2 hours ago)

I love it!
I have several mulberry trees growing and a bunch of other stuff like a dozen different types of berries etc.

I've been meaning to plant some dwarf Korean Pines and other pines that bear edible seeds.


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Offlineyoosername
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602066 - 12/29/23 10:12 AM (30 days, 1 hour ago)

I'm planning on ordering some sea berries too, they fix nitrogen, prevent erosion, and have nutritious berries and leaves.

Another one I recommend is schisandra vine, aka the five flavored fruit.  It's an adaptogen! :goodnews:

I also rooted a bunch of goji berries last year, and have been cloning those, my honeyberries and kiwi vines in a manner similar to cannabis plants.


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O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: yoosername]
    #28602120 - 12/29/23 11:16 AM (30 days, 40 minutes ago)

You're right about schisandra. I forgot that one.

Oregon Grape makes Berberine, but I think it's just in the roots or something. Not the berries?

Of all the berries on the list, Seaberries sound like they would taste the best, Most people describe it as orange passionfruit, but more sour than lemon. Also, it's very stabby. Gotta keep those thorns pruned.

I've got a space between the back porch and the metal work table that's facing east. Several of these need partial shade in my zone. I think I'm gonna build a cage outta bird netting and throw some shade cloth over the top in the back for the extra sensitive ones, like gooseberry and currant. That area is kind of a PITA to mow, and the grass grows really well there, so it must be good soil.

I have a literal shit ton of good quality weed barrier. I could put that on the bottom, and cover that with pine bedding or something.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602122 - 12/29/23 11:18 AM (30 days, 38 minutes ago)

You're making a forest garden paradise.
Give it 10 years and great abundance surrounds you


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Asante]
    #28602160 - 12/29/23 11:44 AM (30 days, 12 minutes ago)

I'm focusing on fast plants. Stuff that starts producing in 2-3 years, and produces heavily in 7-10, and can also propagate rapidly.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: yoosername]
    #28602202 - 12/29/23 12:06 PM (29 days, 23 hours ago)

OK, I'm getting 50 Schisandra chinensis seeds. There don't seem to be many named/improved varieties, so I'm assuming plants from seed are just as good. The main one seems to be a self-pollinating one called "Eastern Prince".

I'm just gonna get a bunch of seeds and plant them along the edge of the woods. I got some marker flags I can use to mark where I plant them.


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Offlineyoosername
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602314 - 12/29/23 01:48 PM (29 days, 22 hours ago)

Eastern Prince is the one I have, they are very difficult to clone so seeds may be a good option.

If you want fast plants, hardy kiwis are supposed to be very prolific.


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O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602322 - 12/29/23 01:58 PM (29 days, 21 hours ago)

Epic man! I gotta say, Im pretty jelly :sadyes:

I hope to see some pics! :popcorn:


--------------------
"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: yoosername]
    #28602326 - 12/29/23 02:00 PM (29 days, 21 hours ago)

Quote:

yoosername said:
Eastern Prince is the one I have, they are very difficult to clone so seeds may be a good option.

If you want fast plants, hardy kiwis are supposed to be very prolific.





Are the Eastern Prince seeds viable?


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602418 - 12/29/23 03:52 PM (29 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Oregon Grape makes Berberine, but I think it's just in the roots or something. Not the berries?



Inner bark and root bark are where it is concentrated.
Stolons are especially rich in it.
Berberine is bright yellow, you can snap a Mahonia twig or root or scape the outer bark away and see it. Older branches have more.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602468 - 12/29/23 05:07 PM (29 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Are the Eastern Prince seeds viable?



I'd assume so, I planted mine in a bad spot so it's still pretty small.  Taking cuttings off of it didn't help either.


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Nillion]
    #28602598 - 12/29/23 06:58 PM (29 days, 16 hours ago)

Ok, I've made some adjustments.

Got rid of both currants and both gooseberries. They are susceptible to honey fungus, and we have it in our yard. In fact, it's killing my maples. Substituted seeds for red and black currants.

Got rid of the Norway Spruce. All I want it for is making spruce beer, and I can probably find a native substitute.

Got rid of Blue Hawthorn (Crataegus Schraderana). Actually want this one, but it's $75 with shipping. It's supposedly the best tasting Hawthorn, but I'm mostly interested in Hawthorn for medicinal use, and the most medicinal one is also the most common one, and the seeds are cheap. I can't find a source for Schraderana seeds in the us. Every source I found is in Europe somewhere, and won't ship to the U.S.

Added 3 Issai, 2 Anna(F) and 2 Meader(M) hardy kiwi plants.

Added Schisandra chinensis seeds.

Added Blue False Indigo seeds just to get free shipping. :smirk:

All orders are placed, now. Still came in at about $700 including the hazelnuts I already got.


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28604810 - 12/31/23 04:05 PM (27 days, 19 hours ago)

I finally got around to trying to identify the two huge trees in my backyard with PlantNet, and I'm pretty sure one of them is a huge as hackberry. I twas just barely able to reach the lowest hanging twig with my loppers and got a small sample of the berries. They look right, and taste like a slightly sweet crunchy candy, as they should, so I think I have a positive ID.

The other one might be a white willow, but the app was less sure. I'll have to wait until spring to get a better ID on that one.

Both trees are easily 80+ feet tall. Now I just need to figure out a way to harvest all that free tree candy.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28604961 - 12/31/23 05:43 PM (27 days, 18 hours ago)

I dont know whether you are in the hardiness zone for jackfruit, but if so definitely get those.

Fruits of 10-40lbs, lots of seeds which are i believe 30% protein.

jackfruit grows very fast, its roots dig 100ft deep to the aquifer and its a high yielder. its a prime candidate for solving world hunger.



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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Asante]
    #28605114 - 12/31/23 07:57 PM (27 days, 15 hours ago)

Nope. I'm 4 zones too far north. In the continental U.S., it could only be grown in a tiny area of Florida, and a tiny sliver of the coast of southern California.

Some parts of Hawaii, and the territories in the Caribbean. Puerto Rico would be jackfruit heaven.

My roommate has an old frame from a trampoline. I'm gonna ask him if I can turn it into a trellis for the kiwiberries. He's not doing anything with it, and I think both he and his kid eat a lot of kiwi, so I'm pretty sure he'll go for it.

That would be an arch 6 feet high, about 10 feet deep, and 12 feet wide. In a few years, it would be a tunnel covered in thick vines loaded with thousands of tiny kiwi fruit. The onegreenworld website shows yield of one vine as 100+ pounds. I think I got 5 females and 2 males. I could put the males on a smaller trellis nearby, giving the female vines over 300 square feet to grow. Plausibly, it could produce 200+ pounds of fruit per year, which is about enough calories for one person for a month.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28606624 - 01/02/24 04:38 AM (26 days, 7 hours ago)

Bad @ss brother!

I can't wait to see your progress, as you have inspired me to start doing a lot more with my yard  :thumbup:

Have you ever thought of growing Elaeagnus umbellata?

I dug up a few small treelings out in my woods,  and I planted them in my yard for a privacy screen.

Now,  three years later they are at least fifteen feet tall!

They totally blocked off my nosy neighbors in the back,  and the extra bonus is all the thousands of juicy, delicious berries that I get to eat,  not to mention that they are medicinal too!

They also bring all the birds to my yard too,  all kinds of species!

https://www.gardenia.net/plant/elaeagnus-umbellata


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Towns77]
    #28607300 - 01/02/24 03:32 PM (25 days, 20 hours ago)

Autmn olive is pretty invasive. We don't have any in my area, and I wouldn't want to be the one that got all that mess started around here, but if it's already everywhere where you are, then why not.

Goumis and Seaberries are similar, but not nearly as invasive.


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InvisibleTowns77
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28607584 - 01/02/24 06:57 PM (25 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Autmn olive is pretty invasive. We don't have any in my area, and I wouldn't want to be the one that got all that mess started around here, but if it's already everywhere where you are, then why not.

Goumis and Seaberries are similar, but not nearly as invasive.




I feel you man, and yes, it is all over the place here and I mean everywhere!

I actually didn't know just how invasive it was until I really started reading.

Sorry for suggesting that to you my man!


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Towns77]
    #28607666 - 01/02/24 08:12 PM (25 days, 15 hours ago)

The Ethics of Horticulture :takingnotes:

We got a huge blackberry problem in Oregon. Its everywhere.


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