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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Throwing $600 at permaculture project. * 2
    #28601695 - 12/29/23 12:23 AM (29 days, 19 hours ago)

So I've decided to go all in on buying a bunch of trees, shrubs, perennial plants, and some seeds. About $700 worth.

I've already dropped $180 on three hazelnut trees (Jefferson Yamhill & Eta). I have them planted in-ground next to my figs, of which I have 9 varieties.

Currently, sitting in various interweb shopping carts I have

Live plants:

(Cancelled)

Blue Hawthorn (Crataegus Schraderana)
Puciumol Medlar
Illinois Everbearing Mulberry
Regent Juneberry
Crandall Current
Ben Lomand Currant
Captivator Gooseberry
Sabine Gooseberry
Norway Spruce

(Coming in March, prolly)
Oregon Grape
Red Gem ™ Goumi
Sweet Scarlet Goumi ™
Orange Glow™ Sea Berry

(Recieved, being kept dormant)
Blue False Indigo
American Groundnut
Blue Moon Honeyberry
Blue Velvet Honeyberry
Blue Hokkaido Honeyberry
Anna Hardy Kiwi (f)
Meader Hardy Kiwi (m)

(Planted)
Red-Osier Dogwood

Seeds:

(Recieved, germination not started)
Princess Tree
Sea Berry
Black Locust
Black Alder
Downy Hawthorn
Midland Hawthorn
Fleshy Hawthorn
English Hawthorn
Carolina Buckthorn
Thornless Honeylocust
Siberian Peashrub
Red Lake Currant
Consort Black Currant
Illinois Bundleflower
Schisandra chinensis
Zizyphus spinosa (sour jujube for rootstock and whole plants)

All that, not counting the hazelnuts I already got, is about $500 $400.

Sea Berry needs both male and female. I got the one patented Orange Glow™, and some seeds from which I should be able to get some males for pollen and some females to compare to the fancy ™ one.

For the Hawthorns, I went with seeds for all but the Schraderana because I couldn't find seeds for that one, and it's supposed to be the best tasting one. The other hawthorns, they're mostly for medicinal use, and possibly rootstock, but I already have two Old Home x Farmingdale 87 pears that make excellent rootstock for pretty much anything a hawthorn rootstock could be used for.

All the Tillamook Goumis are out of stock for the year, apparently, which is the only one I really wanted, but fuck it, I guess. I'll get that one next year.

The red osier dogwood is good for making arrows. the locusts and alder are good nitrogen fixers, and fast lumber/firewood producers. False indigo is a nitrogen fixer. Norway spruce is good for spruce beer and tea The goumis and sea berries are nitrogen fixers. Princess tree is fast growing lumber.Medlar is a fruit that is medieval AF and looks like a butthole, according to Shakespeare in several of his plays. Oregon grape makes fruit and berberine. Groundnut is a nitrogen fixer with edible tubers. siberian peashrub is a nitrogen fixer with edible legumes and maybe my best perennial protein producer.

I think everything else is just fruit. Mulberry is a massive producer of fruit, apparently. The calories per square foot is pretty high for a mature tree. It, along with hazelnut, figs, and pears grafted to bradford pear, will be the powerhouse food producers of my food forest. I don't expect to add much more. This really feels like it's probably enough.

Maybe a spicebush, tho.

I think this covers all 7 layers of permaculture, and should get me off to a good start. I've got a little over a half acre that I've designated for food forest; basically, the front, back, and perimeter of my property. Most of these plants can be propagated from cuttings, runners, suckers, or seed, so I'll be making more of them as I go along rather than buying, like, 20-30 of everything. I might even start a nursery business or something when I get to the point that I don't have room for any more plants.


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Edited by Baby_Hitler (01/19/24 11:25 AM)


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 2
    #28602050 - 12/29/23 09:51 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

I love it!
I have several mulberry trees growing and a bunch of other stuff like a dozen different types of berries etc.

I've been meaning to plant some dwarf Korean Pines and other pines that bear edible seeds.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28604810 - 12/31/23 04:05 PM (27 days, 3 hours ago)

I finally got around to trying to identify the two huge trees in my backyard with PlantNet, and I'm pretty sure one of them is a huge as hackberry. I twas just barely able to reach the lowest hanging twig with my loppers and got a small sample of the berries. They look right, and taste like a slightly sweet crunchy candy, as they should, so I think I have a positive ID.

The other one might be a white willow, but the app was less sure. I'll have to wait until spring to get a better ID on that one.

Both trees are easily 80+ feet tall. Now I just need to figure out a way to harvest all that free tree candy.


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InvisibleTowns77
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28606624 - 01/02/24 04:38 AM (25 days, 14 hours ago)

Bad @ss brother!

I can't wait to see your progress, as you have inspired me to start doing a lot more with my yard  :thumbup:

Have you ever thought of growing Elaeagnus umbellata?

I dug up a few small treelings out in my woods,  and I planted them in my yard for a privacy screen.

Now,  three years later they are at least fifteen feet tall!

They totally blocked off my nosy neighbors in the back,  and the extra bonus is all the thousands of juicy, delicious berries that I get to eat,  not to mention that they are medicinal too!

They also bring all the birds to my yard too,  all kinds of species!

https://www.gardenia.net/plant/elaeagnus-umbellata


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InvisibleTowns77
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28607584 - 01/02/24 06:57 PM (25 days, 29 minutes ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Autmn olive is pretty invasive. We don't have any in my area, and I wouldn't want to be the one that got all that mess started around here, but if it's already everywhere where you are, then why not.

Goumis and Seaberries are similar, but not nearly as invasive.




I feel you man, and yes, it is all over the place here and I mean everywhere!

I actually didn't know just how invasive it was until I really started reading.

Sorry for suggesting that to you my man!


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OnlineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #28608374 - 01/03/24 11:47 AM (24 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

Towns77 said:
Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Autmn olive is pretty invasive. We don't have any in my area, and I wouldn't want to be the one that got all that mess started around here, but if it's already everywhere where you are, then why not.

Goumis and Seaberries are similar, but not nearly as invasive.




I feel you man, and yes, it is all over the place here and I mean everywhere!

I actually didn't know just how invasive it was until I really started reading.

Sorry for suggesting that to you my man!





No worries. It's something I think should be considered, at least. I'd like to have some alder buckthorn, but it's invasive, destructive, and causing a lot of problem in some areas, so I crossed that one off the list. Carolina buckthorn may be as good or nearly as good, and is native to my area, so I went with that, instead.

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
The Ethics of Horticulture :takingnotes:

We got a huge blackberry problem in Oregon. Its everywhere.




I dunno if I'd call it a problem, but we got a lot of wild blackberry here. I think it's native, tho? It's gonna be a problem for me, because it's almost sure to creep into my permaculture system, and I just don't want all those thorns getting in there. I'll probably give enough space between the fence and the trees to get a couple passes of the mower, and I guess just spray down the fence every couple of years to keep down the thorny invaders.


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Towns77] * 1
    #28609207 - 01/04/24 07:27 AM (23 days, 11 hours ago)

I'm gonna baby the figs for the first two years by covering them in the winter. After that, mulch in winter and take off mulch in spring and fertillize. Other than that, they're on their own. I can't have a yard full of high maintenance plants.


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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InvisibleTowns77
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28609424 - 01/04/24 12:04 PM (23 days, 7 hours ago)

Yeah,  I never have covered or mulched mine. Not sure that it would even do any good. They always die and come back from the roots every season, topping out at seven or eight feet, much too tall to cover.

I thought that maybe we wouldn't get below the 20's for lows this season but I looked ahead and we have some teens  :mad2:

So,  bye bye fig trees  :sad:


I'm going tot take mad cuttings,  before those teens hit though!

Actually,  I'm going to go do it right now!


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Towns77] * 1
    #28611471 - 01/06/24 09:19 AM (21 days, 10 hours ago)

Also figaholics has their big annual cuttings sale, which should be coming up, soon.

https://www.figaholics.com/cuttings.htm


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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InvisibleTowns77
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28611698 - 01/06/24 12:41 PM (21 days, 6 hours ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
Also figaholics has their big annual cuttings sale, which should be coming up, soon.

https://www.figaholics.com/cuttings.htm





WOW, so many varieties! I'm in heaven!

I never knew these sites even existed.

You rock man :rockman:


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InvisibleTowns77
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler] * 1
    #28612535 - 01/07/24 02:53 AM (20 days, 16 hours ago)

Ah, those grow wild all over here!

Pretty unique plant  :cool:


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InvisibleTowns77
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Towns77] * 1
    #28620954 - 01/14/24 12:29 PM (13 days, 6 hours ago)

Well,  I took some cutting before all my trees finally bit the dust  :grin:




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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Towns77] * 1
    #28621852 - 01/15/24 08:11 AM (12 days, 11 hours ago)

This is a great project man, commenting to keep an eye on developments.

Have you thought about Mychorrized trees at all? Inoculated saplings can bring a wealth of benefits to your landscape ecologically, plus you get some nice mushrooms down the line.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #28622635 - 01/15/24 08:00 PM (11 days, 23 hours ago)

The climate change models show minimal impact for my area, but I'm trying to keep it diverse so that maybe something will do well if there is a major shift.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602066 - 12/29/23 10:12 AM (29 days, 9 hours ago)

I'm planning on ordering some sea berries too, they fix nitrogen, prevent erosion, and have nutritious berries and leaves.

Another one I recommend is schisandra vine, aka the five flavored fruit.  It's an adaptogen! :goodnews:

I also rooted a bunch of goji berries last year, and have been cloning those, my honeyberries and kiwi vines in a manner similar to cannabis plants.


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O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: yoosername]
    #28602120 - 12/29/23 11:16 AM (29 days, 8 hours ago)

You're right about schisandra. I forgot that one.

Oregon Grape makes Berberine, but I think it's just in the roots or something. Not the berries?

Of all the berries on the list, Seaberries sound like they would taste the best, Most people describe it as orange passionfruit, but more sour than lemon. Also, it's very stabby. Gotta keep those thorns pruned.

I've got a space between the back porch and the metal work table that's facing east. Several of these need partial shade in my zone. I think I'm gonna build a cage outta bird netting and throw some shade cloth over the top in the back for the extra sensitive ones, like gooseberry and currant. That area is kind of a PITA to mow, and the grass grows really well there, so it must be good soil.

I have a literal shit ton of good quality weed barrier. I could put that on the bottom, and cover that with pine bedding or something.


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602122 - 12/29/23 11:18 AM (29 days, 8 hours ago)

You're making a forest garden paradise.
Give it 10 years and great abundance surrounds you


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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Asante]
    #28602160 - 12/29/23 11:44 AM (29 days, 7 hours ago)

I'm focusing on fast plants. Stuff that starts producing in 2-3 years, and produces heavily in 7-10, and can also propagate rapidly.


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: yoosername]
    #28602202 - 12/29/23 12:06 PM (29 days, 7 hours ago)

OK, I'm getting 50 Schisandra chinensis seeds. There don't seem to be many named/improved varieties, so I'm assuming plants from seed are just as good. The main one seems to be a self-pollinating one called "Eastern Prince".

I'm just gonna get a bunch of seeds and plant them along the edge of the woods. I got some marker flags I can use to mark where I plant them.


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Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
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Re: Throwing $700 at permaculture project. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #28602314 - 12/29/23 01:48 PM (29 days, 5 hours ago)

Eastern Prince is the one I have, they are very difficult to clone so seeds may be a good option.

If you want fast plants, hardy kiwis are supposed to be very prolific.


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