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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain 1
#28600675 - 12/28/23 09:31 AM (1 month, 4 hours ago) |
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https://omnicyclion.org/why-there-is-evil-hardship-and-pain/
My question to you: why is it, in your model of the Universe?
How do Tungiasis, Lynchings and Shoah fit into your big picture?
Quote:
Unterscharführer Hackenholt was making great efforts to get the engine running. But it doesn't go. Captain Wirth comes up. I can see he is afraid because I am present at a disaster. Yes, I see it all and I wait. My stopwatch showed it all, 50 minutes, 70 minutes, and the diesel did not start.[a] The people wait inside the gas chambers. In vain. They can be heard weeping "like in the synagogue", says Professor Pfannenstiel,[b ] his eyes glued to a window in the wooden door. Furious, Captain Wirth lashes the Ukrainian assisting Hackenholt twelve, thirteen times, in the face. After 2 hours and 49 minutes—the stopwatch recorded it all—the diesel started. Up to that moment, the people [locked] in those four crowded chambers were still alive, four times 750 persons in four times 45 cubic meters.[c] Another 25 minutes elapsed. Many were already dead, that could be seen through the small window because an electric lamp inside lit up the chamber for a few moments. After 28 minutes, only a few were still alive. Finally, after 32 minutes, all were dead ... Dentists hammered out gold teeth, bridges and crowns. In the midst of them stood Captain Wirth. He was in his element, and showing me a large can full of teeth, he said: "See for yourself the weight of that gold! It's only from yesterday and the day before. You can't imagine what we find every day—dollars, diamonds, gold. You'll see for yourself!"
— Kurt Gerstein, Gerstein Report[
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante]
#28600710 - 12/28/23 09:54 AM (1 month, 4 hours ago) |
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I am confused as to the relationship of evil to pain and hardship.
Is pain evil? Is hardship evil?
What is evil?
I know my own definition, but it is so contextual that to me evil is just a word that exists only in relation to human experiences and it is not a thing that exists independently of humanity. Pain and hardship can be viewed like that as well, except that forms of them potentially exist in all forms of life, rather than being exclusive to our species as the concept of Evil is.
My mind cannot help but also consider sadism and masochism and the relationship of pain and pleasure. Is pain even bad? Seems useful in so many ways.
I suppose I've experienced a lot of hardship, I've nearly frozen to death while homeless, for example, but I can choose to view those experiences as beneficial or detrimental.
Ever seen the TV show Evil? Michael Emerson is one of my favorite actors alive today.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,851
Last seen: 7 minutes, 39 seconds
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Nillion] 1
#28600753 - 12/28/23 10:30 AM (1 month, 3 hours ago) |
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why implies a purpose when there isn't any
evil is just a judgement
pain is a category of sensation hardship is thinking things could be other than how they are
good times follow bad times follow good times and not seperate
hunger follows fullness follows hunger and not seperate
seeing the oneness of good and bad, good and bad disapear into magnificence, the impact of this changes how good and bad are seen. it all changes
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante] 2
#28600757 - 12/28/23 10:32 AM (1 month, 3 hours ago) |
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I've become a better person from the pain. I grow and learn. In the moment it sucks. On the other side I can review it and see growth. Idk about evil. I avoid that.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Freedom]
#28600760 - 12/28/23 10:34 AM (1 month, 3 hours ago) |
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According to the devil, evil is malevolence but he adds that, while he is the origin of malevolence, its childish to assume hes constantly going around being malevolent.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,851
Last seen: 7 minutes, 39 seconds
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante]
#28600767 - 12/28/23 10:44 AM (1 month, 3 hours ago) |
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I never met a devil. sometimes i want angels or god so i have someone to thank for all this
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante] 2
#28600794 - 12/28/23 11:23 AM (1 month, 2 hours ago) |
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Hardship or challenge is endemic to the life cycle.
As a living thing ages, some challenges become too much and life succumbs.
Occasionally disease or parasites weaken or kill living things. And sometimes the disease is purely mental.
Mind interestingly helps us face challenges by drawing upon what is familiar in relation to the obstacles. Some minds latch onto ways to foist their challenges on others while siphoning away their living efforts and achievements. This is parasitic behavior, and it is often recognized as evil, although it is a natural thing that we must endure and attempt to treat early if it gets a foothold in our system, like any parasite.
Among Species parasitism has developed as a specialty. This mind blowing thing fortunately is self-limited, or those parasitic species would run out of hosts. Generally it is because parasites are more rare than victims.
Among people, we try to contain parasitic behavior, although some of us have raised it to incredible heights. I just hope they don't run out of hosts, because then they are coming for me, and there is nowhere to hide.
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Kickle
Wanderer



Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,851
Last seen: 1 hour, 31 minutes
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Freedom] 1
#28600813 - 12/28/23 11:44 AM (1 month, 2 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said: why implies a purpose when there isn't any ... the impact of this changes how good and bad are seen. it all changes
This is close to how I perceive this as well. I think recognizing something occurring is a bit different than ascribing a 'why' Recognizing the way things are is plenty to work at and work with IMO
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Kickle]
#28600822 - 12/28/23 11:54 AM (1 month, 2 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I think recognizing something occurring is a bit different than ascribing a 'why' Recognizing the way things are is plenty to work at and work with IMO
I agree. It is a very pragmatic as well.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,851
Last seen: 7 minutes, 39 seconds
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Nillion]
#28600829 - 12/28/23 11:58 AM (1 month, 1 hour ago) |
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I think "why" is a useful delusion used to help organzie groups and societies
like we are here to discuss philosophy, sociology and psychology. we create this unique exploration through the creation of a why.
we do this everywhere almost, and then just assume its part of the bigger picture, god the universe or whatever
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante]
#28601319 - 12/28/23 06:14 PM (30 days, 19 hours ago) |
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I don't favor the religious answer. Reality doesn't 'want' serial killers. I think the Buddha's answer would be greed and desire.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante] 1
#28601476 - 12/28/23 07:46 PM (30 days, 18 hours ago) |
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I'm not sure there's one answer.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante] 1
#28601483 - 12/28/23 07:51 PM (30 days, 18 hours ago) |
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I'm unsure about my belief of evil. To me the ultimate worst is "evil". I try to view things, people especially, events, etc as less rhen. Like a scale of black and white. Say black is less good and white is good. I try to put it on a scale. I don't think kids are bad. I think kids do bad things. I apply the same to most things. Evil, the word has such a religious relationship that I apply it to demons, baby rapists, etc
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: loladoreen]
#28601521 - 12/28/23 08:24 PM (30 days, 17 hours ago) |
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What you wrote there about evil is something not altogether dissimilar to my own view.
I think evil is a choice. Malevolent choice seems as good a way as any to describe it.
I also believe that a person who has stolen something can prevent theft, that a person who has harmed another can help heal etc. I believe in repentance, or a form of it, at least. In the context of evil as a choice I believe that there are no evil people, only evil choices. This is a rather heartbreaking position to maintain, but I am rather broken hearted as a person so it suits me.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Nillion] 1
#28601523 - 12/28/23 08:25 PM (30 days, 17 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Nillion said: What you wrote there about evil is something not altogether dissimilar to my own view.
I think evil is a choice. Malevolent choice seems as good a way as any to describe it.
I also believe that a person who has stolen something can prevent theft, that a person who has harmed another can help heal etc. I believe in repentance, or a form of it, at least. In the context of evil as a choice I believe that there are no evil people, only evil choices. This is a rather heartbreaking position to maintain, but I am rather broken hearted as a person so it suits me.
YES Completely agree Completely Never met anyone else who believed that.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: loladoreen] 1
#28601564 - 12/28/23 08:56 PM (30 days, 17 hours ago) |
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a malevolent choice, is an ignorant re-enactment of crappy model behavior.
like a bad art form that some people practice mechanically - empty of satisfaction even if they seem to put feeling into it.
it is a lonely disease.
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lostintimenspc
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/20
Posts: 222
Last seen: 12 hours, 4 seconds
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: redgreenvines]
#28602844 - 12/30/23 01:04 AM (29 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Very abstract concepts, woven into an understanding given by education and civilization.
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: lostintimenspc] 1
#28602966 - 12/30/23 05:40 AM (29 days, 8 hours ago) |
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if not woven into the fabric of culture, would any be able to understand it? could a point of view ever exist separate from the fabric of its dependencies?
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Nillion
Nobody

Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
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Re: Why there is Evil, Hardship and Pain [Re: Asante]
#28603201 - 12/30/23 10:37 AM (29 days, 3 hours ago) |
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Terms are useful but only in context is something that comes to mind.
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