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Offlineedixo
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Psilocybin treatment for OCD
    #28599348 - 12/27/23 02:57 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

My girlfriend's sister is dealing with anxiety-based OCD. She's a champ about her therapy and is very open about it. I've suggested using psilocybin therapy to her, and she seems interested.

My plan is to use the Johns Hopkins trip methodology, and have a small "ritual" of her picking and weighing the mushrooms herself and choose what way to imbibe them. Then me and her sister will be there for her as sober sitters while she sorts out whatever needs sorting out.

Does anyone have experience using psilocybin for OCD specifically? I've read a bunch of medical articles on it that seems promising, but I'd like some opinions.


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: edixo] * 1
    #28599361 - 12/27/23 03:19 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

OCD is one of the mental health issues I have. I'm not a particular fan of mushrooms, either, yet I have plenty of experience with them, but when it comes to a psychedelic, I typically have mushrooms as my 2nd or 3rd choice, so I don't do them very often at all. Last I took them was just microdoses, but before that it was in 2017. 

OCD is terrible. It's like, having to do things multiple times because if you don't, either something disastrous will happen or your brain cannot rest unless you check, and double check, triple check, over and over again, until there is visible frustration and a cry for the OCD to stop.

I think this plan is the best plan, it should help them reduce their anxiety. Also, I would encourage them to microdose a couple times a week at around 2mg psilocybin per session. This is equivalent to about 0.2g of dried mushroom, taken easily in a single gel capsule which will minimize stomach discomfort, and I can attest that it works, miles better than any other trick I tried. I essentially microdosed for a month whilst I went about my usual routine, and the OCD? Disappeared. But somehow came back...there's a way to "cure one's OCD" with just thoughts, but it's tortuous. It's basically telling yourself "don't check/obsess", and it is a proven system for lowering OCD or making it "disappear" altogether, but the individual also, on a microdose, when going about their daily routine, will be able to not have their OCD ruling their brain, because it's allowing them to be more mindful in the moment and to just go with the flow.

Mushrooms for anxiety based OCD? Yes. I see no reason why this might not help.

Don't make them take too much. As a sitter, it is your duty to make sure the person feels as safe and comfortable as possible.

Psilocybin has a way of introducing new ways of thought, different ways to think about the same thing, so if your friend can think of all their OCD traits, then ask them to look at each instance of an obsession or compulsion, and ask themselves, internally, why does it make me feel anxious, is there a deeper meaning behind the anxiety and OCD, and how they could think of each situation they have with OCD, in a different perspective that would allow them to not be anxious.

Also, once you get enough of a jump on it, the easier the OCD patterns will just flat out, stop. The psilocybin allows the brain to exit the default mode network, so it seems entirely reasonable that this could work.

However, I knew someone once that had the same issue. I told them, you ought to try mushrooms. They asked how much to take. I told them, no more than 2g.

They were highly sensitive and it just made them more anxious. I felt bad for having suggested it to them, but they were smoking a quarter of cannabis a day for anxiety, which, if you smoke too much/too often, your long term anxiety goes up


Edited by skOsH (12/27/23 03:22 AM)


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Offlineedixo
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: skOsH]
    #28599364 - 12/27/23 03:24 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Fantastic insightful post. Thank you.


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: edixo] * 1
    #28599367 - 12/27/23 03:34 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

No worries! Glad to help. I would also pair it with them trying out meditation, not just whilst on shrooms, but in their spare time as well.

Sometimes we're essentially panicking but arent consciously aware, and this causes an incident of ocd, which causes further panicking. That's how I see it, anyway.

I will also recommend some books:

-Rewire your OCD Brain
-Brain Lock
-The Self Compassion Workbook for OCD

encourage the friend to think of a hobby that decreases their anxiety, aside from meditation, such as painting, pen and paper sketching, poetry, playing a musical instrument, a sport, etc.

Those would be my supplemental recommendations to the psilocybin experience in this instance. Encourage them to use aromatherapy if they can, lavender essential oil is powerful stuff.

Anything to essentially alleviate most anxiety, especially exercise and making artwork.


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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: skOsH]
    #28599378 - 12/27/23 04:04 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

I hate to be a party pooper but be careful. Less than 2 grams dried for sure. Microdosing might be best.

Many shrooms actually cause temporary OCD. You can get stuck in a thought loop or behavior loop. Shrooms can also cause anxiety or make it worse for maybe 6 months.

You really need therapy, meditation, set and setting, intention, integration, guided meditations during the trip, etc. Bad trips do happen.

I do agree shrooms can help OCD and anxiety but they could cause it to worsen in the short term. It could be years of therapy to make progress. :smile:


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Offlineedixo
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28599385 - 12/27/23 04:15 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Hmm. I was thinking 4-5g of dried cubensis. 2g is barely beyond a social dose. I get the need for safety, but that's what the set and setting is for.

JH seems to have had success with dosages that equate the Hero's Journey.


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OfflineSoul Flight
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: edixo] * 1
    #28599556 - 12/27/23 08:19 AM (1 month, 1 day ago)

Maybe if you work up to 5 g dried over the course of a year. Do it once a month for 11 months at less than 2g dried. Or if she is brave, start at 2 g dried and increase by 0.5 g every month. Above 2 g the body load can be intense. Intense anxiety, chest tightness, restlessness, etc. It can be like drinking an energy drink or 5 cups of coffee.

Do you have maybe 5 or 10 experiences at 2 g or 5 g dried?

You would really have to warn her of the nausea, OCD loops, and anxiety. It would be more about shaking her brain like a snow globe and hoping she can cure herself in the comedown and integration. You are definitely playing with fire and could make her much much worse for 6 months with a bad trip. She needs to know the risks.

But I agree, It could actually work. A total reset on life. A death to one’s self. A new beginning. A confrontation with repressed memories. But PTSD from childhood like sex abuse could re-surface and be debilitating. There are forces beyond our control.

Be safe. Good luck.


Edited by Soul Flight (12/27/23 08:24 AM)


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: Soul Flight]
    #28599608 - 12/27/23 09:05 AM (1 month, 23 hours ago)

Quote:

Soul Flight said:
I hate to be a party pooper but be careful. Less than 2 grams dried for sure. Microdosing might be best.

Many shrooms actually cause temporary OCD. You can get stuck in a thought loop or behavior loop. Shrooms can also cause anxiety or make it worse for maybe 6 months.

You really need therapy, meditation, set and setting, intention, integration, guided meditations during the trip, etc. Bad trips do happen.

I do agree shrooms can help OCD and anxiety but they could cause it to worsen in the short term. It could be years of therapy to make progress. :smile:




Quoted for Truth


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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: edixo]
    #28599659 - 12/27/23 10:00 AM (1 month, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

edixo said:
Hmm. I was thinking 4-5g of dried cubensis. 2g is barely beyond a social dose. I get the need for safety, but that's what the set and setting is for.

JH seems to have had success with dosages that equate the Hero's Journey.





Could you link to where you are getting this John Hopkins protocol from. They are very clear about how they run their experiments. Everything that I have read from them, they freely admit that doses at this level increase the odds of a terrifying experiences with marked increase anxiety. Also John Hopkins a very clear about what they are attempting to achieve with each study, a link would provide an insight into this. 

People often trot out the set and setting mantra without knowing the meaning behind the saying.


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Offlineedixo
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28599677 - 12/27/23 10:28 AM (1 month, 22 hours ago)

Quote:

Kiwi89 said:
Quote:

edixo said:
Hmm. I was thinking 4-5g of dried cubensis. 2g is barely beyond a social dose. I get the need for safety, but that's what the set and setting is for.

JH seems to have had success with dosages that equate the Hero's Journey.





Could you link to where you are getting this John Hopkins protocol from. They are very clear about how they run their experiments. Everything that I have read from them, they freely admit that doses at this level increase the odds of a terrifying experiences with marked increase anxiety. Also John Hopkins a very clear about what they are attempting to achieve with each study, a link would provide an insight into this. 

People often trot out the set and setting mantra without knowing the meaning behind the saying.



Fairly certain he talks about it in this video:


Edit: Not specifically for OCD, but for therapy sessions.


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~ LAGM 2024 ~


Edited by edixo (12/27/23 10:36 AM)


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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: edixo]
    #28599711 - 12/27/23 11:23 AM (1 month, 21 hours ago)

Have you actually read how these experiments are run? Dr Matthew Johnson very briefly describes the hours of work involved here even before ingesting the mushrooms. He also briefly  mentions the protocols that they adhere to during the seasons but does not go into detail. He also does not talk about the follow up sessions. I strongly suggest that you track down some studies and read the detail.

He does does very briefly describe here the guru complex, he could make an entire lecture on this concept alone. I think this is one of the most important concepts for everyone to become aware of.   


To be clear I do not see anything wrong with taking mushrooms to help with life. I do though think it should be known that these John Hopkins studies are very fucking different to what some people are making them out to be.


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Offlineedixo
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28599712 - 12/27/23 11:25 AM (1 month, 21 hours ago)

Do you have a link that goes into detail about this?


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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: edixo] * 1
    #28599738 - 12/27/23 12:03 PM (1 month, 20 hours ago)

You could start here, this a very interesting read. This study also links to 10 studies on magic mushrooms carried out at Johns Hopkins between 2001 and 2018.


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Offlineedixo
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: Kiwi89]
    #28599740 - 12/27/23 12:05 PM (1 month, 20 hours ago)

Thank you!


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Offlinewolf8312
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: edixo]
    #28599745 - 12/27/23 12:11 PM (1 month, 20 hours ago)

There was a guy recently on here who said he had actually given shrooms to a terminally ill friend citing Hopkins. But I don’t think he had any real idea what he was doing beyond believing that Hopkins had proven that shrooms were a wonder drug for the terminally ill.

Same with giving shrooms to a friend struggling with mental health issues IMO.

Maybe one day there will be places for things like this with psychiatrists and trained medical staff on standby but it’s playing with fire IMO and best left to professionals who will take on the legal responsibilities. 

Psychedelics in this (well
Intentioned amateur clinician) context reminds me of a Tennyson poem:

This truth within thy mind rehearse
That in a boundless universe,
is boundless better,
boundless worse


I think many underestimate just how badly something like this could go and you should make sure it’s something you yourself are in no way responsible/liable for OP.


--------------------
"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown



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InvisibleKiwi89
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: wolf8312]
    #28599778 - 12/27/23 12:35 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
Maybe one day there will be places for things like this with psychiatrists and trained medical staff on standby but it’s playing with fire IMO and best left to professionals who will take on the legal responsibilities.




This is my big take away form all the studies that I have read from Johns Hopkins. All of the studies involve medical professionals with redundancy built in. There are very clear protocols that they all adhere to. These are not backyard psychologists.

Quote:

wolf8312 said:
I think many underestimate just how badly something like this could go and you should make sure it’s something you yourself are in no way responsible/liable for OP.




This is my belief too. I do not think there is anything inherently dangerous with taking psychedelics. I do think there is a danger in thinking you can cure a person with taking a large dose of a drug when you have no way of knowing how an individual will react to that substance. 

I would hope that a minimum people understand that any interaction with an individual on a psychedelic substance colours the experience. Guiding or offering insight is to tempting for most I fear.


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: Psilocybin treatment for OCD [Re: wolf8312] * 1
    #28599877 - 12/27/23 02:20 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

Yeah, so I would also hit up psychonaut wiki, and elaborate to your friend just the time frames on what to expect and when, describe to them that they will likely see textures moving on tree trunks and stuff, chromatic aberrations where the branches meet the sky. More vivid colors.

Let them know of all the possible unpleasant overload of the body.

If I was a sitter for someone with OCD, I would likely want to talk with them during the entire experience about such a condition

If they go on a walk, accompany them. Just see how they're responding and keep reading their body language and facial expressions and repond accordingly. If you manage to get them to get the "shroom giggles", I think they'll have a positive experience for sure. Just, not unlike inviting guests over for drinks or something, but instead of being a regular host, you should offer anything that might comfort them. The less adverse side effects, the better. Sleep mask, comfortable headphones, some rgb leds for making the place look very high class.

Offer them a sketch pad. Any foods or beverages, offer all of them. Just don't overload the tripper with too much info, that'll surely inject anxiety back into their trip. But, the end of a mushroom trip feels very rejuvenating

You gotta be prepared for your friend's life to be entirely in your hands, at all times. They need to feel safe to have a good sitter

Also, like I mentioned earlier, have them check out the duration of effects, onset of first effects, and any salient information that you can gather that is reputable, that would be very useful to them, so they know, roughly, what to expect. You want to have them ease into the trip, and if they do get stressed out for part of it, then by the time the psilocybin/psilocin wears off, they will likely get a nice afterglow, which will give them enough focus, to break their OCD tendencies or ignore them entirely

I would suggest as they peak on the shrooms, offer an eye mask and music they will want to listen to. Try not to make the day highly ordered / structured. This will also induce stress, as though they need to finish their trip and find meaning in it, which is definitely something that shouldn't be rushed

Give them an assignment after the session. Just tell them to break away from one of their tendencies. If they can knock one of those out of commission, they have the power to do even more and get out of the rut. I would also advise you to grind up some of the shrooms, measure out 0.2g, and then hand out these gel capsules to your friend, and let them know it's a weaker dose, but they should still know that they ought to not dose more than twice a week. If they really want to feel slightly more involved, make some 0.5g gel capsules as well as the 0.2g. Let them know they need to wait at least three days for their tolerance to reset.

Tell them that they can try a 0.5, but I would strongly advise, that if they do, they clear their schedule, make sure they have some days off. Designate a dedicated "safe zone/home base"

Also if you need to spruce up the place, t hat will also comfort the tripper. Clutter, especially when trying to combat OCD, will make this less effective. Most people with OCD are highly ordered, and they need routine routine routine

Make sure your friend lets you know about their personality traits that you might not know about, their fears before going into the experience, and the sitter keeps the tripper as calm as possible before consuming the shrooms. Mindset, and setting. Very important, especially with an attempt at nixing OCD in the bud.

If you follow all precautions as a responsible psychedelic sitter, your friend will be just fine, and I believe they will rid themselves of OCD


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