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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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Somtimes there is a false dichotomy (split into two)
sometimes there is a false monotony (one tone)
i think the phenomenon of bullying has more than one tone playing. It can be hard to pick them apart.
isecurity, low self esteem, lack of empathy, abuse and neglect, learned behavior, reinforcement conditioning, psychoopathy, seeing oneself as a victim.........
these are some of the tones that might play through bullies as they enact the bullying. Just to see these kind of streams within oneself is a pretty cool feat, to see them in another from an armchair is pretty hard to do
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Freedom
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: Exactly. The priest versus the saint argument that I was making earlier. It’s one thing to be genuinely a good person. And reach out to somebody because you’re trying to help. Versus trying to terrorize somebody into believing what you do.
parents do this with children
like children are natuarlly scared of cars
I think if i genuinely believed someone might be tortured in eternity, and I could save them from that just be convincing them to believe in jesus, I would do anything to convince them.
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Freedom
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Quote:
GenesisCorrupted said: You should be able to present that to them. That should still be their choice though. IMO
If someone is ignorant, they don't have the ability to choose. Like with children
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Freedom
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Re: The psychology of the bully [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28596845 - 12/24/23 05:30 PM (1 month, 3 days ago) |
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I see anger as its own thing, joy as its own thing, pleasure as its own thing, sadness as its own thing, and there are subdivisions within.
Anger tends to have layers for me. So like say someone stole something I value. I might feel angry. If i look at the anger and soften, i find within it there is sadness, and when i allow myself to feel the sadness, grieving happens. Through this acceptance is found and life moves on. I am very familiar with that pattern as in most of my life I would suppress the anger, and the whole complex would get burried. Durring meditation these complexes naturaly emerge, so it sort of became one of the routine things.
also can be other things under the anger like shame (and under the shame me be sadness and greif at the loss of face or social standing or how i imagine someone thinks about me)
anger can be aroused preemptively at imagined threats. politicians manipulate people with this.
I distinguish between pleausure and joy although they can mix. joy has a quality of love in it, its shared, even if that sense of sharing is with a flower. I delight in the flower, rather than using it to get a sensation. I delight in children without wanting anything from them. There is some freedom with joy, its not possesive. pleasure tends to be possesive.
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Freedom
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: believing in something is never a choice. (not that anything is) people should not be made to believe things, is probably what GC is talking about, and I agree with that (truly a form of bullying). but honestly we do not choose to believe things.
We pick up the practice from others around us, and then become confirmed, barmitzva'd, re baptized, and publicly endorsed as believers in traditional ceremonies even if we are not actually in synch with all that stuff.
and the things that some people actually come to believe are really astonishing: crazy conspiracies, and some really obtuse political concepts. I cannot imagine people choosing to be so stupid.
I don't personally desire to convince people as I feel pretty confident that I am not the worlds leading expert on everything lol. (this is a real lol it cracks me up) 
However I did work in nursing homes, and I would pressure people to do things that I thought would be good for them. That encouragement was a really tricky thing for me. Its common in nursing homes to do that. At first it felt so wrong, because I have a strong value for personal choice (even thought I see choice as an illusion).
After observing things for a while, it looked like this encouragement was really helping people. For example there was a woman with dementia who was paranoid. She thought people came into her room at night, she saw bugs crawling around everywhere, and she was scared to go out of her room. Because her memory was impaired, she couldn't remember me. I got to come to her everyday and try things iteratively like groundhogs day. Eventually i learned how to encourage her out of her room. When she got out, there was a guy she naturally got along with. The enjoyed each other very much and would go on adventures together. (he also had dementia and it was really good for him too).
I had to be careful and I looked at how I spoke and what i said very carefully.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: The psychology of the bully [Re: Blue_Lux]
#28596876 - 12/24/23 05:55 PM (1 month, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said:
I find what you said intriguing.
It made me think, what is the state of mind in conversation? Is that itself a sensation? Or reading... There may be many feelings. How does one's psychological relation to other people impact their ability for actually having a conversation, and having the feeling(s) of the exchange of thoughts? It requires sharing ideas, and this is why I think conversation and communication is fundamentally associated inside us with what 'love' and 'happiness' means. I don't think it is its own thing apart from having as you say delight and joy with/from other people. It isn't about deriving joy or pleasure but with it simultaneously with the experience. I think anger and sadness is fundamentally opposed to communication, which is something that actually holds the species together.
I find lots of levels and varieties of communication. like at the grocery store there is subtle communication barely acknowledging others just enough not to bump carts, or to let some go in line (or try to get first in line). then with the person at the check out counter, it might just be very matter of fact, or there could be a brief moment of connection.
that transition from matter of fact conversation to conection is a state change for me. That's where atunement starts. On the other end of the spectrum, I have a friend who when we visit we sit in silence most of the time, feeling that sense of connection. The silence gives space and time for giving attention both to the other and to oneself. When we speak from this state, we seem to be able to deeply understand each other.
Merry ChristmaHanaKwanzaKrumpaDiwaliHogmany!
these conversations have been very enriching I'm probably going to disapear for a few days
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Freedom
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Re: The psychology of the bully [Re: Asante]
#28599886 - 12/27/23 02:29 PM (1 month, 23 hours ago) |
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self esteem, high or low, is an attempt to put value on something priceless
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Freedom
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Quote:
Cory Duchesne said: Bus Monitor Karen Klein bullied by vile school children
^ Difficult to put into words how I feel when I watch this video, but it's the perfect example of bullying: The strong and young attacking the weak and old.
I never trusted the human race. Always used condoms and pull out method, back when I was able to have sex. Now a days I'm isolated and without companionship. It doesn't seem like sexual intercourse is even an option for me these days, and when I see people having families I don't know what to say to them other than, good luck, but I think you belong to a species too flawed to deserve reproduction.
when I look back at my life, its both discrete moments and a continuous flow. The good times flow into bad times which flow into good times again.
and so it is with this story,
Quote:
After the bullies' identities were revealed, they received many death threats.[2] The video prompted an investigation on the part of school officials and local police.[8] Klein stated that she would not press charges against the students, partly because of the flood of death threats and criticism aimed at them.[9] She also stated she would like an apology and a different bus route.[10] When an apology was issued, however, she rejected it as insufficient.[11]
On June 29, 2012, the Greece Central School District announced that the boys would be suspended from the middle school for one full academic year, and each boy would also be required to complete 50 hours of community service with senior citizens and complete a formal program in bullying prevention.[12]
On his show Anderson Cooper 360°, CNN anchor Anderson Cooper announced that Southwest Airlines offered to pay for a trip for Klein and nine people of her choice to Walt Disney World for a three-night visit.[13] Klein responded, "It does make me feel a whole lot better. I appreciated everything. I think it's awesome."[13]
Soon after the video went viral, Max Sidorov, a Ukrainian immigrant living in Toronto who says he had been a victim of bullying as a child, started a campaign at fundraising site Indiegogo with a goal of $5,000, to help give Klein a vacation and posted it to Reddit.[14][15] Within a few days of its creation, the fund had surpassed half a million dollars, and by June 25, over $650,000.[16] An Indiegogo spokesperson stated that the website was in touch with Klein, who would receive the money raised by the scheduled end of the fundraiser on July 20, 2012.[17] When the campaign ended on July 20, Klein's campaign had received a total of $703,833.[18] Klein stated that she planned to use $100,000 of the earnings to establish the Karen Klein Anti-Bullying Foundation, as part of the GiveBack Foundation.[18]
On July 27, 2012, Klein announced that she planned to retire as a bus monitor, calling it "a tough decision".[19]
I was abused as a child, and had fear which the other children picked up on and used to bully me in a similar way. That forced me to deeply contemplate my self, my psychology and those around me. Eventually that led me to have a much greater understanding of myelf and others than I would have otherwise, and this helps me everywhere I go.
When I look at the whole of good and bad flowing into each other, the whole has a beauty and magnificence to it that I deeply appreciate, and this magnificence depends on both the good and bad.
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