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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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Psilocin 1
#28590982 - 12/20/23 08:00 AM (1 month, 8 days ago) |
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Was discussing psilocin with a friend. They had eaten very fresh psilocybes, less than a week old. They were amazed with how fast the come up was. They were tripping in about 5 minutes. We have noticed the same with very fresh mushrooms. Presumably this is because psilocin degrades quickly, leaving mostly just psilocybin in older batches. We have found literature suggesting light is a main culprit in the degradation of psilocin. We never thought to dry mushrooms in complete darkness, but the science would suggest this is the best way to maintain potency (which will drop substantially as the weeks pass, regardless.) Anyone else with tips or tricks they have discovered to keep mushrooms at their strongest for the longest?
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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SizlChest
Padawan



Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 814
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 2 days, 56 minutes
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This is why, whenever possible, I make a huge batch of citrus tea with freshies. Freezing preserves the freshness of those doses.
-------------------- PrimalSoup's Tea Tek
   "I always say the tea is like eating a burning tire covered in dog shit while someone steps on your nuts. Good luck!" "Hell, shrooms have blown up from under me and kicked my ass on 2 grams once." "I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."
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CultiV8
cogito, ergo rum


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 296
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part of the magic is lost when drying - maybe secondary alkaloids not fully understood yet? making tea with fresh fruit and freezing into portions works great though.
with dry material the goodies are "locked" in a dry fibrous matrix which takes time for stomach acid to break down. then you also have to wait for the psilocybin to be converted to psilocin in the body. whereas with fresh you're eating a higher concentration of straight psilocin suspended in a squishy 90% water medium, which is both easy to digest and doesn't need to be dephosphorylated for the come up to start.
to preserve potency when drying, it's best to dry them as fast and hot as possible (max heat in a dehydrator). 140F+ denatures the enzymes responsible for breaking down the alkaloids in nature, and the faster all the water is driven out the faster the cells harden up and lock in the goodies. then store in airtight containers with desiccant packs.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,528
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Re: Psilocin [Re: CultiV8] 1
#28591562 - 12/20/23 03:47 PM (1 month, 7 days ago) |
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I made peppermint tea brewed 15 minutes with 2gm whole dried APE mushrooms (and I finger squeezed the hot re-hydrated bits back into the tea cup before drinking all the fluid) and it kicked my ass. tremendous visuals and I had to lie down the source was professional and the air tight product packaging was opaque aluminized plastic with a ziplock re-seal top. no light got in.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,146
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Dry them immediately in a dehumidifier until they are cracker dry, and then seal them airtight in a plastic bag, or multiple, however you want. Then put them in the freezer in a dark location. Trust me, not much potency is lost.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,146
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Fresh mushrooms are better because they can digest easier, unless you make a tea or something. I have always eaten mushrooms whole. I have had a dinner plate of dried mushrooms at once. Tea is cool, but unless you have a problem with mushrooms, it is best to eat them fresh. This is why, I think, if one were to hypothetically procure some, unless an enthusiast, then they would want to aim for planning the trip, preferably as a sacred medicine or sacrament put aside and planned for. With fresh mushrooms, you know you will have a better trip, because the stomach problems are not as bad, like having to shit. Lol. In the story the wolf of wallstreet he takes an enema before a big quaalude binge because he didn't want having to shit to ruin it or get him in trouble. LOL. Smart actually. I personally hate enemas, but they do actually help before a large dose of mushrooms. I'm not fooling around. It's something to consider. I don't like having to take a massive dump if I'm tripping, because sometimes it does give your stomach that jolt. Etc. Etc. Good luck.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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I make tea from dried mushrooms and can usually feel something within 10 minutes.
Other psychedelics too, depending on the dose.
I always do it on an empty stomach, that effects the time to onset as well
Edited by Freedom (12/20/23 07:00 PM)
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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The study linked measured greatest potency loss for samples that were frozen. The link doesn't seem to work when clicked today to re-reference. (sorry !) The lemon juice step may change the results, but in theory would make potency drop off worse. If the TEK converts Psilocybin to Psilocin, and Psilocin degrades faster - then you would only want to perform the TEK after bringing it out of storage. Are you saying you do the lemon extraction and then freeze, or you just do the extraction on the fresh goods and freeze the rest. Thanks for your insights!
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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Re: Psilocin [Re: CultiV8] 1
#28592428 - 12/21/23 07:40 AM (1 month, 7 days ago) |
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Thanks for the drying tip to dry "fast'. We have a dehydrator but rarely whip it out because it is easier to just leave the medicine to air dry and not deal with dehydrator cleanup etc. Sounds like it is worth the trouble. Thanks again!
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: I personally hate enemas, but they do actually help before a large dose of mushrooms. I'm not fooling around. It's something to consider. I don't like having to take a massive dump if I'm tripping, because sometimes it does give your stomach that jolt. Etc. Etc. Good luck.
You sound like the person to ask - have you ever hooped cubes?
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 8 hours, 11 minutes
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Quote:
lionmane said: The study linked measured greatest potency loss for samples that were frozen. The link doesn't seem to work when clicked today to re-reference. (sorry !) The lemon juice step may change the results, but in theory would make potency drop off worse. If the TEK converts Psilocybin to Psilocin, and Psilocin degrades faster - then you would only want to perform the TEK after bringing it out of storage. Are you saying you do the lemon extraction and then freeze, or you just do the extraction on the fresh goods and freeze the rest. Thanks for your insights! 
Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of thepsychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis
Edited by Freedom (12/21/23 08:23 AM)
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SizlChest
Padawan



Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 814
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 2 days, 56 minutes
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Yes, I process a whole batch. Around 300 grams for a batch. They are much more "shimmerey" than the same process from dried fruits.
See the tea tek in my signature.
-------------------- PrimalSoup's Tea Tek
   "I always say the tea is like eating a burning tire covered in dog shit while someone steps on your nuts. Good luck!" "Hell, shrooms have blown up from under me and kicked my ass on 2 grams once." "I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."
Edited by SizlChest (12/21/23 08:47 AM)
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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Ah thank you @Freedom!
Re-reading it appears tryptamine degradation is the worst under freezing conditions for psilocybin, baeocystin, norbaeocystin, and aeruginascin. Psilocin on the other hand held up under freezing in this study. "significantly lower concentrations of all of the analytes were detected except for psilocin"
Their conclusion doesn't focus on psilocin specifically, but if the goal is to optimize for psilocin - then you would want to perform the lemon tek and then freeze. If you want the full array of active compounds, dry in the dark at room temperature. This feels like nature winking at us, since the easiest and most available method of storage also seems to be the best overall.
TY all for holding space to explore this
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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LOL. The length of Primal Soup's TL;DR for the TeaTek is astounding. Will take us awhile to process, good looks Sizl.
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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CHUCK.HNTR
feral urbanite



Registered: 09/30/19
Posts: 2,254
Loc: SF, CA, USA
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Quote:
lionmane said: Thanks for the drying tip to dry "fast'. We have a dehydrator but rarely whip it out because it is easier to just leave the medicine to air dry and not deal with dehydrator cleanup etc. Sounds like it is worth the trouble. Thanks again! 
If you are drying using a true dehydrator the way that was mentioned it is far far superior. I stopped keeping mine in the freezer years ago because unless you let the jars/mushrooms come back to room temp before opening them warmer air immediately condensates on the inside and you begin to reintroduce moisture to the jars and overtime spoil your shrooms.
Ime with eating fresh mushrooms it’s great but harder to measure an acute dose. The x10 general rule doesn’t hold true. I think it may be x11 or x12 for Pan cyan and P cyans.
-------------------- "What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
   
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 8 hours, 11 minutes
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Quote:
lionmane said: Ah thank you @Freedom!
Re-reading it appears tryptamine degradation is the worst under freezing conditions for psilocybin, baeocystin, norbaeocystin, and aeruginascin. Psilocin on the other hand held up under freezing in this study. "significantly lower concentrations of all of the analytes were detected except for psilocin"
Their conclusion doesn't focus on psilocin specifically, but if the goal is to optimize for psilocin - then you would want to perform the lemon tek and then freeze. If you want the full array of active compounds, dry in the dark at room temperature. This feels like nature winking at us, since the easiest and most available method of storage also seems to be the best overall.
TY all for holding space to explore this
something else i noticed in the paper was that with fresh mushrooms there was less loss with bigger chunks instead of being ground up
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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no and I really dont plan on it lmao
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,146
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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What do you mean by freezing conditions? ... That doesn't make sense logically and scientifically.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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CultiV8
cogito, ergo rum


Registered: 08/16/14
Posts: 296
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Quote:
Freedom said: Stability of psilocybin and its four analogs in the biomass of thepsychotropic mushroom Psilocybe cubensis
Interesting study. When they say:
"... in the case of fresh fungal fruiting bodies, the extraction of larger unprocessed pieces of fresh fruiting bodies was found to be more effective than chopping these mushrooms into small pieces."
I was under the impression that chopping up fresh material before making tea increased extraction efficacy, but this paper says the opposite. Has anyone tried both methods and noticed a difference?
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,146
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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That is intuitive because it prevents exposure to air.
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Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
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I've chopped them up before but usually don't bother. The stuff turns into fibre mush anyway and the alkaloids are very water soluble, I really don't think it makes much practical difference. Just seems like mushrooms.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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come on Blue, do it - hoop those boomers, for science, and report back 
"Freezing conditions" equals in a freezer at -20, -80 degrees celsius.
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,146
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,849
Last seen: 8 hours, 11 minutes
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: What do you mean by freezing conditions? ... That doesn't make sense logically and scientifically.
when the cells freeze they split open, when they are then thawed again, the cell contents all mix. There my be enzymes that metabolize the tryptamines. Its very common to break open (homogenize or lyse) cells, and theres a lot of stuff that goes into the solution to prevent this kind of thing.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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thats why u dont freeze raw mushrooms
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
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If you are serious about preserving Psilocin, the best method is freeze drying.
But a less expensive option is constantly grow shrooms so you can take fresh fruits when you want. Thats the best way. Fresh is Best.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,322
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: Dry them immediately in a dehumidifier until they are cracker dry, and then seal them airtight in a plastic bag, or multiple, however you want. Then put them in the freezer in a dark location. Trust me, not much potency is lost.
Freezer?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: If you are serious about preserving Psilocin, the best method is freeze drying.
But a less expensive option is constantly grow shrooms so you can take fresh fruits when you want. Thats the best way. Fresh is Best.
Truth. This is the way. Added benefit: The more you grow, the more you learn, the more fruits you have to share with the family.
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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lionmane
Edible with Side Effects


Registered: 09/02/19
Posts: 43
Last seen: 6 days, 17 hours
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Mornin' Lola: The TL;DR of this thread is that if you have converted psilocybin to psilocin, then freezing is best to preserve psilocin specifically. Otherwise drying, in the dark, and storing, in the dark, at room temperature is optimal.
-------------------- -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence-
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,322
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I've never froze them I dry them, seal em and put em in a safe Ty for the information
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Freezer in multiple bags if possible, to prevent air from getting in. The freezer is just to prevent them from what a higher temperature will provide. At a lower temperature, fewer things are happening molecularly. Basic idea. Any cool dark place. Freezer is just easiest, maybe even inside a sealed jar, inside plastic bags. The Native American Church holds them inside locked, sacred boxes with labels. Generally low moisture, dark place, dried, and they'll preserve best. Not much to it.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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