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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28584017 - 12/15/23 02:23 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

In what way?


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28584054 - 12/15/23 02:58 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

That depends on how far you want to take it, philosophically. Interpreted with all different levels of literalness.

We are subjected to lots of fantasy genre and punditry, but life itself is a miracle. What's going on, away from the monitor.

Some reasons not to do wrong are when you pity something or consider it valuable of your own accord.

(But, we assume someone is looking.)


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28584800 - 12/16/23 02:30 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I’ve been thinking about this. I think that’s the core of it. If you aren’t being watched. You have an opportunity to do something good. Let’s say something that would hurt you. But it is the right thing to do. But if you didn’t do it. No one would know.

This isn’t a small matter. This is going to really hurt you. You might have permanent scarring maybe burns. But you did it because it was the right thing to do. Not because you wanted to die with some grand purpose in mind. Not because you were getting rewarded. Not because you were going to get punished if you didn’t do it. Just because it was the right thing to do.

That is a saint. Anyone can be a saint. That’s what we should all strive to be like. But peoples perspectives are skewed, because most religion gives you a reward for staying  in line. To keep doing what you’re told. Or you are met with hellfire for breaking the rules. Now those rules are important.

There were no rules. It was awful. A group of people banded together, and they all agreed what we need is a set of rules to keep people from doing this.

That wasn’t going to be enough. They felt like they needed to threaten them. So they convinced them of the concept of hell. Something I don’t believe in.

I think if your soul has been tainted through this life. With its misery that it can put you through. You have to go into a sort of spiritual rehab. Where you wash this taint from you. And then you can come back and try again.

That’s just how I feel.


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (12/18/23 09:42 PM)


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28584956 - 12/16/23 06:57 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

This is stuck in my head GC! Now you must pay. All together now. :awedance:

As I went down in the river to pray
Studyin' about that good ol' way
And who shall wear the starry crown?
Good Lord, show me the way...


"Come on in boys, the water is fine."



Edited by syncro (12/16/23 07:06 AM)


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28585167 - 12/16/23 10:24 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Besides doing good when you are not under threat, some people faced persecution, were imprisoned and tortured for the sake of their conscience.

They would not bow down to foreign gods nor eat what was unclean to them. It wouldn't have caused any inconvenience to their physical body or required any effort on their part, if they had complied with demands.

So, it's not based on peer pressure or consequences.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28585367 - 12/16/23 01:11 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
Besides doing good when you are not under threat, some people faced persecution, were imprisoned and tortured for the sake of their conscience.

They would not bow down to foreign gods nor eat what was unclean to them. It wouldn't have caused any inconvenience to their physical body or required any effort on their part, if they had complied with demands.

So, it's not based on peer pressure or consequences.



Have you ever heard what happened to the last Incan King?


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28585382 - 12/16/23 01:24 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

The Spanish conquistadors had conquered the Inca.
The king saw how they coveted treasure above all else.
So he offered to fill a room with gold in one day.
Then he said he would fill it twice with silver. If they would just leave his people alone.

He accomplished that.
Now the conquistadors demanded one more thing.
The requerimiento:
A speech requiring the listener to submit to the authority of the Spanish Crown and accept the Christian faith.
He refused.
Knowing that in their religion being killed in fire, guaranteed no afterlife.
They said they were going to burn them to death.
He needed to submit, or they would kill everybody.

They tortured him for days.

Until he finally submitted to their Christian God.
Fully believing in his religion. He was willing to sacrifice himself to hell for his people.
They immediately killed him.
Then they went out of their way to take some of his clothes and some of his skin to burn. His remains were given a Christian burial.

That is the saint versus the priest…


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28585401 - 12/16/23 01:42 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Inca or Inquisitor, was either religious or afraid of the consequences?


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28585405 - 12/16/23 01:44 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

What about Pontius Pilate and Jesus?


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28585406 - 12/16/23 01:45 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Conquistadors felt completely justified in murdering all of those people. Including their king. Because they were savages in their eyes. They did not worship the correct God. They were going to burn in hell according to their religion. The Incans were also religious. They had their own very specific belief system. The Christians purposefully were going to do something that would guarantee him no afterlife, because they knew that would terrify him the most into converting.



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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28585446 - 12/16/23 02:16 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

(I didn't realize that the discussion was leading to a victimhood narrative.) :shrug:

Quote:


Capac Hucha as an Inca Assemblage
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/capa/hd_capa.htm

The performance began in Cuzco, the Inca capital, with the marriage of juveniles selected by Inca nobility. The juveniles, wearing a range of ornaments, were taken on processions to different locations, where they were killed and buried with varied materials, including metals.




Although it is written, "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God," one possible interpretation is that brother turns against brother and the Earth turns against them.

Authors at the time of the original missionaries, and political, and business contacts -- first contacts -- claimed to have found societies in decline due to plagues, warfare, probably killing off the best of their best, and the dumping of national treasures with those sacrificed.

Quote:


The Cult of Sol Invictus
https://spacezilotes.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/the-cult-of-sol-invictus/

The Roman Empire began their official recognition of sun worship during the time of Aurelian when he instituted the cult of "Sol Invictus". There is virtually no difference between the cult of Sol Invictus and that of Mithraism or for that matter catholicism.





I find their observances very beautiful, irl. Except, in my version of intersectionality, would have been subject to the Inquisition on several issues.

LIST OF CATHOLIC HERESIESAnd HUMAN TRADITIONSADOPTED and PERPETUATED by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCHIN THE COURSE OF 1600 YEARS(Compiled by Rev. Stephen L. Testa)
https://d3hgrlq6yacptf.cloudfront.net/5f19468dbebc0/content/pages/documents/1393876384.pdf

The notorious Jack Chick asks whether Catholics are Christians:
https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=71
Maybe, in a little booklet you were once given in your Halloween candy.



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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28585454 - 12/16/23 02:24 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Christians are the result of Catholics.
Because of the rampant greed that had permeated the church. Separating them from the real spirituality of it.
People got fed up with being able to pay for absolution. That doesn’t sound very religious.

Which caused them to protest against this church.

Forming the designations of protestants.
In truth. Most Christianity comes from a root in Judaism.

To be honest though. I got a little lost in your comment. What did you mean specifically?


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28585457 - 12/16/23 02:27 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

In modern times, I think most people are religious on the level of Hallmark holidays, the WCOC, and Tomorrowland Music Festivals.

My grandmother claimed to be Catholic at an opportune time so escaped persecution and was taken in by Catholics.

I put a motor scooter back on the van of a an elderly grandmother, on my way to work, passing a Catholic church.

The parishioners around the block from me were uncommonly gentle, not acting like Crusaders, although their churchbell is no longer allowed, here.


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28585458 - 12/16/23 02:29 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Christians are the result of Catholics.




Or, Mithraism, or Messianic Judaism...

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
To be honest though. I got a little lost in your comment. What did you mean specifically?



About it being a victimhood narrative?

I'm enjoying my food and some family dropped by.

I'm not in victim mode all the time.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28585472 - 12/16/23 02:42 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

You should’ve just said that. It is not a victimhood argument. It’s the statement. That they tortured this man with the thing that he feared the most. To force him to convert to their religion. Otherwise they were going to murder everybody. They felt justified in their actions.

That is not religious. That is monstrous.

The man that sacrificed himself even knowing he would go to hell in his own mind. Was the saint.

If anything, that’s a narrative about sacrifice.

Now once again. What is your question?


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Edited by GenesisCorrupted (12/16/23 03:39 PM)


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28585482 - 12/16/23 02:48 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

I feel tricked into answering a religious line of questioning, when I said that I did not want to be political, nor do I associate with the oppressors, who I am apparently supposed to be defending.

Since they are not directly culpable, but are civil to me, I respect them, platonically.


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: durian_2008]
    #28585552 - 12/16/23 03:40 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

I’m not accusing you of anything. I just want you to see what you’re saying in a different perspective.

Nobody’s attacking anyone. This is a theological philosophical debate.


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28585579 - 12/16/23 03:55 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

From the christophobic pov.

(I don't carry it with me. I am doing other things while the pc is on in the background.)

Remember, when I talked about predestination or foreordainment and how, it is written, people could be known from the womb. I don't consider it in my power to change someone's mind against their will. 

You might conceivably get someone to pretend. Or, people on either side of the discussion can refuse to cooperate out of spite. As an act of free will, you can accept persecution and punishment, on either side of this discussion.


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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28587703 - 12/18/23 02:15 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Re: The Priest vs the Saint. Are you religious, or just afraid of consequence? [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28589083 - 12/18/23 09:16 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
:lol:
Quote:

blessed said:
Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:
Even with mistakes made. I’m a good person.



That may be true, but you are still a sinner.



How so?



Because the Bible says in Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God".

Also in the same chapter of Romans you'll find,

9  What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10  As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one;
11  There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12  They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13  “Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit”; “The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14  “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15  “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16  Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17  And the way of peace they have not known.”
18  “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

and further more in Romans chapter 4:7-8

7  “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
8  Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”

And with that, there's this,

Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death,

You might want to consider changing that laughing out loud smiley for a crying out loud one.


Edited by blessed (12/31/23 01:06 AM)


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