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Offlinetruth_hunterr
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[Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls * 2
    #28588255 - 12/18/23 11:27 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Hello, i have been researching on psilocybe mairei which led me to  the original locality of this mushroom where it was first described by Maire in his paper. On december 7th i found (first 3 photos) this suspicious looking mushroom growing on a small piece of rotten wood under cedrus (cedrus atlantica) which featured a seperable pellicule, I took it with me (didn't think much of it) till the cap started to change color from orangish brown to palid, and some "bluing" started to appear, i took these photos and let it spore print without cutting the cap, no spores were visible even after 24 hours!


----------------

A week later and after 3 days of rain, i went back to the same exact location and found this lot, the caps featured like previously a very slimy-to-touch pellicule which mostly had that greenish-bluish color, When i was examining them at home the caps started to change color very rapidly! I quickly cut them and placed them on foil and isolated them with cups moisted with alchohol for printing. But again all 8 mushrooms didnt leave any spore print that could determine the color.. a microscope would help but i cant afford one. The stem's bluing became very visible after the spore printing process (26 hours after picking) Any questions for more clarification pls ask them.

Personal notes i have taken (as a begginer):
• Relatively strong smell (very mushroom-y)
•Grew on soil (filled with woody debris) + some grew on small pieces of rotten wood.
• No ring zone present to my rookie eyes.
• Stem hollow in the center as seen in the picture.
• Habitat is a cedrus atlantica forrest at an elevation of approx 1300 meters.
• Spotted like 20+ of this mushroom growing in a 5 meter radius.
• The bluing is still visible even after drying.











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InvisiblePsilosadhu
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28588292 - 12/18/23 11:58 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Very nice! Never seen them here before!
Looks like you might've found some sterile ones. Don't know much about this species but I'm sure you've hit jackpot! :smile:


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OfflinePluviophile
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Psilosadhu]
    #28588338 - 12/18/23 12:31 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Wow. Very cool find!!!

Maybe send some out for DNA sequencing.

I think it is free.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nSKlouFy1Z3OXbCf2cWiKH0hkDnFKZvPn6_oCr3vEK0/mobilebasic


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28588366 - 12/18/23 01:02 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

What a great first post! :bow2:

This must indeed be that species, unless there are other similar ones growing in Algeria.
Supposedly close to or even identical to Psilocybe serbica, if I'm not entirely mistaken.

Growing mostly in beech forests in Central Europe, it would be nice to know what kind of wood these grew from.

Please please try to find more and take loads of pictures!

Welcome to the Shroomery. :toast:


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InvisibleDandurn777
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28588381 - 12/18/23 01:13 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
What a great first post! :bow2:

This must indeed be that species, unless there are other similar ones growing in Algeria.
Supposedly close to or even identical to Psilocybe serbica, if I'm not entirely mistaken.

Growing mostly in beech forests in Central Europe, it would be nice to know what kind of wood these grew from.

Please please try to find more and take loads of pictures!

Welcome to the Shroomery. :toast:




Yeah. Serbicas came to my mind too.


--------------------
Prying open my Allenii




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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Dandurn777]
    #28588518 - 12/18/23 03:14 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Yeah, it's Psilocybe serbica, nothing too exotic, it has already been sequenced and confirmed from Algeria.


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:mushroom2:  l e a r n i n g  t h i n g s :mushroom2:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #28588523 - 12/18/23 03:18 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Definitely a good one to send in for sequencing - the more sequences we have from Algeria that match P. serbica the more confident we can be that Psilocybe mairei is the correct name for P. serbica.  We have just one, which is a very small sample size, which is why I still use the name P. serbica.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #28588544 - 12/18/23 03:30 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Yeah, it's Psilocybe serbica, nothing too exotic, it has already been sequenced and confirmed from Algeria.




I think it is pretty exotic to find Psilocybe mushrooms in a country that is largely covered by desert areas.
Especially since it is a wood lover.


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #28588545 - 12/18/23 03:31 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
...the more confident we can be that Psilocybe mairei is the correct name for P. serbica.



Psilocybe mairei could never be correct name for Psilocybe serbica, since Psilocybe serbica is older name and it takes precedence over mairei, that is how things work in taxonomy. So correct name for Psilocybe mairei is Psilocybe serbica, and for what it's worth, these mushrooms look just like the typical serbica I find.


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:mushroom2:  l e a r n i n g  t h i n g s :mushroom2:


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #28588601 - 12/18/23 04:12 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

RenegadeMycologist said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
...the more confident we can be that Psilocybe mairei is the correct name for P. serbica.



Psilocybe mairei could never be correct name for Psilocybe serbica, since Psilocybe serbica is older name and it takes precedence over mairei, that is how things work in taxonomy. So correct name for Psilocybe mairei is Psilocybe serbica, and for what it's worth, these mushrooms look just like the typical serbica I find.




Yep, seems like P. serbica has a four year head start.

Wouldn't hurt to know more about the ones native to Algeria, though.
Pretty curious why that species thrives there, and not (as it seems at least)
along the Spanish Mediterranean coast, for instance. But they grow some places
in Italy too, if I remember correctly. Which makes some sense since it is closer
to the Balkans.


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28588753 - 12/18/23 05:47 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I figured it out why he's suggesting otherwise, it seems that Psilocybe mairei name is emerging from Hypholoma cyanescens Maire 1928 chain of names, leaving serbica name hanging since it doesn't have a basionym reference. I can bitch and whine about the principle of nomenclature stability, however this species is really not endemic to Serbia, so, the epithet mairei might be more suiting.

more on mairei: https://www.scielo.org.mx/pdf/abm/n100/n100a4.pdf

The name Psilocybe mairei is based on a fungus from Algeria described by Maire (1928) as Hypholoma cyanescens, that Malençon (1942) later redescribed from the same locality. Kühner and Romagnesi (1953) considered this species as Geophila cyanescens (R. Maire) Kühner & Romagnesi. Subsequently Singer and Smith (1958)
studied this fungus and related it to a species described from Argentina, Psilocybecollybioides Singer & A.H. Sm., because both mushrooms share taxonomic features and their semi-sterile conditions. However, Singer and Smith (1958) stated that Maire’s fungus is different from the European P. cyanescens Wakef., although someauthors, e.g. Krieglsteiner (1984) and Babos (1997), considered P. cyanescens assynonym of Maire’s mushroom. Malençon and Bertault (1970) redescribed Maire´s
fungus as Geophila cyanescens from Morocco, and later Singer (1973) reportedthis species as Psilocybe mairei, to separate it from P. collybioides. The habitat ofPsilocybe mairei in Algeria and Morocco is soil or small pieces of rotten wood, under Abies, Cedrus, Pinus or Quercus according to Maire(1928),Malençon(1942),Singer and Smith (1958) and Malençon and Bertault (1970).


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist] * 1
    #28588758 - 12/18/23 05:51 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Haha, down the rabbit hole of taxonomy we go!


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InvisibleCHUCK.HNTR
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28588799 - 12/18/23 06:22 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Cool find OP.
Fun thread 👀


--------------------
"What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
    #28589042 - 12/18/23 08:52 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

🍿


--------------------
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Offlinetruth_hunterr
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #28589330 - 12/19/23 04:21 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Can we please address the fact that no spores were macroscopicaly visible for all sespecimeñ even after 24 hours?.. i tried different light angles and levels, i even usued a magnifying glass but couldnt spot a single spec, is this something that serbicas usualy do in other parts of the world?




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Offlinetruth_hunterr
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28589336 - 12/19/23 04:37 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Thank you all for the feedback, it seems that i have found a serbica or a really close ally, what's puzzling is that:
•The original habitat of mairei is identical to this one, my lot is located like 2km away from maire's.
• other similiarities include the long and not so tense bluing.
• another similiarity is the finite amount of spores that are produced, which in maire's words "the production of spores is very less abundant to the point that it's impossible to determine the tint, we determined the latter after using the brush method suggested by AZOULAY"

Other than that nothing in maire's description matches with what i've found, the stem in mairei is "stuffed with silky pith" mine is hollow


I used paul statemt's description from his book "psilocybin mushrooms of the world" because maire's original description is in this language that google can't detect, the entire document is in french (i can read french) but not the description:
"Hypholoma cyaneseens R. Maire, n. sp. — Carpophora gregaria, interdum subcaespitosa, hygrophana ; sapor milis ; odo> rapae debilis ; caro lulvella, in stipitis basi fulva, sicca pal- lesccns, in medulla stipitis alba ; sporae in cumulo tusco-purpureae. Stipes subaequalis 1. basi sensim parum incrassatus, 2,5-4 cm. x 2-5 mm., cum pileo confluons, cartilagineus, medulla sericea alba farctus, demain tabalosas, cute aduata siccus, plus minusve librillosus, apice pruinosus, albidus, tacla larde caeralco-macu-

latus. Cortina araneosa alba, fugax. Pileus e convexo expansus, haud umbonatus, 1,5-3 cm. diam., tenuis, in disco parum crassior, carnoso-subcartilagineiis, elasticus, cule secernibili viscosus, glaber, opacus, udus sordide ochraceus (K : 157 -+- 102 dilut.), siccus pallescens (Iv : 153 D), tactu caeruleo maculatus ; margo incurvus, concolor, glaber, vix nevix striatus. Lamellae confertae, tenues, cum hymenophoro confluentes, angustae (1,5-2,5 mm.), arcuatae, antice attenuatae, postice plus minusve rotundatae, anguste adnatae, ex albido sordide et pallide ocbraceae (K : 128 D + 153D), demum dilute fusco-rufae, tactu caeruleo maculatae, acie albida pruinosa ,haud intervenatae ; lamcllulae attenuatae. Lamellarum acies cvstidiis nuinerosis lieteromorpha ; cystidia aciei fusiformia apice in appendicem subcylindraceam oxalato calcico incrustatam producta, 30-40 X 6-8 u ; mediostratus regu- laris ex hypliis longiusculis subaequalibus 5-8 u. diam. contextus ; subhymenium tenue ramosum (= c. 1 /2 hyménium) ; cystidia in faciebus lamellae rarissima, caeterum cystidiis aciei conformia ; basidiaclavata 4-spora, nonnullis 2-sporis immixtis, 28-32 X 7 9 a; sporac parcae ellipsoideae, sub lente pellucide fusco-purpureae, crassiuscule tunicatae, laeves, apice rotundatae 1. subattenualae et poro pertusae, basi in apiculum hyalinum sublateralem, con- tractae, 10-12 x 5,5-0,5 p., nonnullis (e basidiis bisporis ortis) oblongo-ellipsoideis, usque ad 20 X 7,5 u, immixtis. G—. NH 3
—"


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OfflineRenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28589342 - 12/19/23 04:52 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
Can we please address the fact that no spores were macroscopicaly visible for all sespecimeñ even after 24 hours?.. i tried different light angles and levels, i even usued a magnifying glass but couldnt spot a single spec, is this something that serbicas usualy do in other parts of the world?



Yes friend, it's common for serbica to refuse to drop a print, I've seen many people in my country struggling with it. What usually helps is to keep them moist as you can, putting a drop of water on the cap every hour or so. Just be careful where the water goes, so it does not wash the prints.

I can't help but remember the good old Jan Borovicka who separated serbica group into several different species judging by spore size and morphology. Wondering what's the spore size in Algerian collections...Might save serbica if there's a huge difference in micro morphology, but then I'll also have to accept arcana, bohemica, moravica and other clown species...


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Offlinetruth_hunterr
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28589346 - 12/19/23 05:03 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Here are more photos:


















48 HOURS LATER: (out of the isolated cups and into a white paper, still no visible spores)


Edited by truth_hunterr (01/02/24 06:41 AM)


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Offlinetruth_hunterr
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #28589361 - 12/19/23 05:28 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

How do i actualy send some? (Legaly and financialy speaking)


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28589370 - 12/19/23 05:42 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
Thank you all for the feedback, it seems that i have found a serbica or a really close ally, what's puzzling is that:
•The original habitat of mairei is identical to this one, my lot is located like 2km away from maire's.
• other similiarities include the long and not so tense bluing.
• another similiarity is the finite amount of spores that are produced, which in maire's words "the production of spores is very less abundant to the point that it's impossible to determine the tint, we determined the latter after using the brush method suggested by AZOULAY"

Other than that nothing in maire's description matches with what i've found, the stem in mairei is "stuffed with silky pith" mine is hollow


I used paul statemt's description from his book "psilocybin mushrooms of the world" because maire's original description is in this language that google can't detect, the entire document is in french (i can read french) but not the description:
"Hypholoma cyaneseens R. Maire, n. sp. — Carpophora gregaria, interdum subcaespitosa, hygrophana ; sapor milis ; odo> rapae debilis ; caro lulvella, in stipitis basi fulva, sicca pal- lesccns, in medulla stipitis alba ; sporae in cumulo tusco-purpureae. Stipes subaequalis 1. basi sensim parum incrassatus, 2,5-4 cm. x 2-5 mm., cum pileo confluons, cartilagineus, medulla sericea alba farctus, demain tabalosas, cute aduata siccus, plus minusve librillosus, apice pruinosus, albidus, tacla larde caeralco-macu-

latus. Cortina araneosa alba, fugax. Pileus e convexo expansus, haud umbonatus, 1,5-3 cm. diam., tenuis, in disco parum crassior, carnoso-subcartilagineiis, elasticus, cule secernibili viscosus, glaber, opacus, udus sordide ochraceus (K : 157 -+- 102 dilut.), siccus pallescens (Iv : 153 D), tactu caeruleo maculatus ; margo incurvus, concolor, glaber, vix nevix striatus. Lamellae confertae, tenues, cum hymenophoro confluentes, angustae (1,5-2,5 mm.), arcuatae, antice attenuatae, postice plus minusve rotundatae, anguste adnatae, ex albido sordide et pallide ocbraceae (K : 128 D + 153D), demum dilute fusco-rufae, tactu caeruleo maculatae, acie albida pruinosa ,haud intervenatae ; lamcllulae attenuatae. Lamellarum acies cvstidiis nuinerosis lieteromorpha ; cystidia aciei fusiformia apice in appendicem subcylindraceam oxalato calcico incrustatam producta, 30-40 X 6-8 u ; mediostratus regu- laris ex hypliis longiusculis subaequalibus 5-8 u. diam. contextus ; subhymenium tenue ramosum (= c. 1 /2 hyménium) ; cystidia in faciebus lamellae rarissima, caeterum cystidiis aciei conformia ; basidiaclavata 4-spora, nonnullis 2-sporis immixtis, 28-32 X 7 9 a; sporac parcae ellipsoideae, sub lente pellucide fusco-purpureae, crassiuscule tunicatae, laeves, apice rotundatae 1. subattenualae et poro pertusae, basi in apiculum hyalinum sublateralem, con- tractae, 10-12 x 5,5-0,5 p., nonnullis (e basidiis bisporis ortis) oblongo-ellipsoideis, usque ad 20 X 7,5 u, immixtis. G—. NH 3
—"





Here is the description in English as written by Guzman for "The Genus Psilocybe":

Pileus 15-25 (-35).um in diam., convex to campanulate or conic-campanulate, then expanding, not
umbonate, glabrous, even, with the margin faintly striate when humid, viscid, with a separable gelatinous
pellicle, hygrophanous, ochraceous with a bister tone, finally dusky olive, fading to yellowish white or
dull stramineous from the disc to the margin, staining blue where touched injured.

Lamellae adnexed, whitish or pallid argillaceous when young, when mature becoming lilac-beige to purple brown
or light rufous-fuscous, with edges whitish pruinate.

Stipe (25-) 40-75 x 2-3 (-5) mm, equal or subequal or slightly enlarged below, solid to pseudo fistulose, stuffed
with a white silky medulla, white to whitish or yellow- ish, pruinose on the apex, innately fibrillose downward.
Basal mycelium cottony white, agglutinating, with long white rhizomorphs, 0.5 mm thick, Veil cortinate, white, fugacious, except for the fibrils on the stipe.

Context amber color or fulvOllS, darker in the stipe, bluing in all regions when bruished. Odor farinaceous, taste
mild to somewhat farinaceous.

Spore print purplish blackish Or purple brown.

Spores (10-) lI-J2 (-13.S) x 5.5-6.2 (-7) JIm, elongate-ellipsoid both in side and lateral view, thick walled, yellow-brown or light (useous brown, with an apical broad germ pore and a short appendage.

Basidia 25-35 x 7.5-9 .urn. 4-spored, hyaline, cylindrical or constricted, with sterig- mata 5.urn long.

Pleurocystidia absent or simil ar to the cheilocystidia and near the gill edge; fusaid
or sublageniform, 3()..35 x 6-7.S,um.

Cheilocyslidia 30-40 x 6-8 pm, hyaline, abundant, forming a sterile band. lageniform. fusiform or
ampullaceous, with the apex often incrusted with calcium oxa- late.

Subhymenium seemingly subcellular. hyaline. Hymcnopodium formed of more or less parallel broad hyphae.
Trama regular, with elements 5-8 /Jm in diameter. Epi- cutis as a gelatinized, thin layer composed of
narrow hyaline hyphae. Hypodermium with elongated hyphae. Upper part of the stipe with caulocystidia.
Clamp con- nections present.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr] * 1
    #28589378 - 12/19/23 05:56 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
How do i actualy send some? (Legaly and financialy speaking)




Take one completely dried specimen, put in a zip lock bag and put that
in an envelope with the correct address and amount of stamps.
On the declaration sticker write "fungal herbarium sample" or something similar.
One single mushroom in an envelope is usually no problem.

To make it easier for the recipient, you should make an account on mushroomobserver.org
and post the find there, and then mark the zip lock bag with the observation number.
Thus there will be a verifiable reference to the find, including the pictures.
It is often hard for busy mycologists to keep track of all the material they receive in the post, so
this will be helpful so as not to lose track of it. Of course, sometimes even that isn't enough
and the sample might get lost anyway. Or what do you say, Alan? :biggrin:


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28589389 - 12/19/23 06:12 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:




These look very yellow, more than usual. Despite serbica frequent inability to drop spores, here the case might be that these have low spore count, basically sterile.

Mature specimens most of the time have darker color of the gills:

https://mushroomobserver.org/473292?q=1pTEY
https://mushroomobserver.org/473461?q=1pTEY
https://mushroomobserver.org/475481?q=1pTEY


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #28589461 - 12/19/23 07:37 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Those gills look immature to me. A lot of times the P. alenii or cyanescens I find take quite a while for the gills to develop enough spores to really drop a print. Sometimes there’s some that will never really develop spores. Basically if I look at the gills and don’t see the purple/brown color visible I wouldn’t even try to print it because at best you’ll get a faint print, but more typically you’ll get no print.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Dandurn777]
    #28589474 - 12/19/23 08:06 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Had same problem with angulospora. Wouldn't drop shit even if mature.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Psilosadhu]
    #28589517 - 12/19/23 08:51 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Angulospora is in a different ballpark than serbica, or mairei, if you will. Angulospora is notorious for its low spore production, with speculation suggesting that isolation on an island resulted in a bottlenecked gene pool, potentially giving rise to peculiar traits such as low spore production. Normal serbica will release a significant number of spores if kept moist and picked at the right time.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #28589758 - 12/19/23 12:25 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I suggest more specimens, perhaps from a different location, are needed.
Might be some genetics behind this. Could be the same phenomenon we see from timeto time in P. semilanceata, for instance.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28589803 - 12/19/23 12:56 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I've found liberty caps like that. I took them for sterile. Aren't they?
Same size patch as thus guy's, grew there for two years then disappeared. Always wondered, what is the lifespan of a p.semilanceata? Happened three more times with mushrooms with other easily distinguished features. Two years then gone (Sorry for going off topic).


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Psilosadhu]
    #28590009 - 12/19/23 03:36 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Psilosadhu said:
I've found liberty caps like that. I took them for sterile. Aren't they?
Same size patch as thus guy's, grew there for two years then disappeared. Always wondered, what is the lifespan of a p.semilanceata? Happened three more times with mushrooms with other easily distinguished features. Two years then gone (Sorry for going off topic).




"Sterile" is just layman's term I guess. It works fine but is probably not correct myco lingo.
I see them every season, most commonly in areas with more numerous colonies.
As for most saprobic mushrooms I guess the life span of a wild mycelium patch is as long as there
are nutrients to feed on. I've read that P. semilanceata also can grow sclerotia for the
purpose of hibernation through harsh winters. Hard to tell since they're so difficult to cultivate and thus observe.

I'm not sure if woodlovers can do the same, though, however I doubt it since they mostly
grow on more ephemeral debris like twigs and chips, which are relatively quickly broken down.
Then again, the woodloving species growing outside of man made landscaping must have a way
of keeping up the game, and a live forest will usually provide new substrate continuously.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28590183 - 12/19/23 05:18 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Im enjoying this discussion, one question tho the picture in "psilocybin mushrooms of the world" put by paul stamets feature gills that are very dark with mature speciemen, mine obviously dont..
what's the deal here? Did he use a typical serbica picture or is it the original?


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28590185 - 12/19/23 05:20 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)



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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28590190 - 12/19/23 05:23 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

And since you're talking maturity, one of these guys had a stem that exceeds by 1cm the maximum that maire described (7.5) so i think its pretty mature. No?


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28590203 - 12/19/23 05:31 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

To be honest, you can forget Stamets' book, it is nearly 30 years old and a lot
has happened in terms of knowledge concerning (hallucinogenic) mushrooms since then.

Not only has the quality of mushroom pictures become a zillion times better, but
the means of proper identification through DNA sequencing has helped clarify a lot
of taxonomic difficulties.

I hope I'm not taking my mouth too full when I say that Shroomery is one of the
more prominent sources of credible information available on hallucinogenic species.
Thanks to the ever present eagerness to learn more about them.

That being said, there's hardly anything such as a "final word" on this topic.

Regarding your find, I believe the best photographic references available are
the reported finds of P. serbica posted on the following site:

https://mushroomobserver.org/observations?page=1&pattern=psilocybe+serbica


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28590827 - 12/20/23 05:28 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

With all due respect, 30 years old or not, it's the only "photographic evidence" available of that species, unless you have one laying around somewhere (if you do pls enlighten me).

I'm just saying that something is off, but who am i to judge, just a rookie seeking the truth.

Like you said there's no final word, so DNA is my last resort, thank you all deeply for your support.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28590884 - 12/20/23 06:37 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I ended up with more questions than answers.. this whole sterile thing is new to me.
The more you learn i guess :ohwell:


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28590997 - 12/20/23 08:24 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
With all due respect, 30 years old or not, it's the only "photographic evidence" available of that species, unless you have one laying around somewhere (if you do pls enlighten me)




Only recent photos I could find at the moment are of these found in Morocco in 2018:

https://mushroomobserver.org/344663

If you search the same site for P. serbica, you will immediately see how similar they look.


Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
I ended up with more questions than answers.




Welcome to the world of mycology!

:idigit:


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28591068 - 12/20/23 09:17 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Haha what a welcome!
One last question, how to tell if these are edible/active without dying?


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28591136 - 12/20/23 10:10 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
Haha what a welcome!
One last question, how to tell if these are edible/active without dying?




You found out these were psilocybe mairei/serbica, didn't you?
You can tell they're active from the bruising... There are no poisonous psilocybes... Not sure I get what you mean.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Psilosadhu]
    #28591255 - 12/20/23 11:45 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I understand, im just double checking that really no psilocybes could be poisnous or cause stomach problems and all that stuff (since there are no trip reports from the actives of my region), like what's the lowest dosage one can begin with and what should one be looking out for?


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28591285 - 12/20/23 12:04 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Psilosadhu said:
Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
Haha what a welcome!
One last question, how to tell if these are edible/active without dying?




You found out these were psilocybe mairei/serbica, didn't you?
You can tell they're active from the bruising... There are no poisonous psilocybes... Not sure I get what you mean.



:whathesaid:

Even if we didn't identify species correctly, and we 99% did, it's still Psilocybe, which means not poisonous.

We also presented possible explanations for the lack of spore prints, either due to them being sterile (low spore count) or possibly picked immaturely in terms of spore maturation, not physical size. While spores can mature after picking, the mushrooms might have dried too quickly during the printing process, preventing the opportunity for mature (purple-black) spores to drop. To address this, consider adding drops of water to their caps. As mentioned, I have observed people attempting to print serbica with no results; the reason for this occurrence is unclear to me. It is possible that the interruption of spore maturation by harvesting may be a contributing factor, but in general, they sporulate normally.

So I'm unsure why there is a "more questions than answers" sentiment present here. Regardless, you can send dry mushrooms to be sequenced for 20 euros and determine their identity with 100% accuracy. Try here:
http://www.alvalab.es/

If you are worried about the dosage, consult the following page where you can find dosage chart for serbica:
https://www.shroomery.org/12511/Psilocybe-serbica

If you refuse to believe it's Psilocybe serbica, then consume this Psilocybe species by taking an extremely low amount. If you refuse to believe it's Psilocybe species, then do as you please.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: RenegadeMycologist]
    #28591332 - 12/20/23 12:28 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Much appreciated thank you! i apologize for asking about the obvious and being somewhat dull.

Rain is an issue around here at this time of the year, so i just focused and poured all my energy into just finding it before the season ends. Didnt have space to think of what comes after.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28591411 - 12/20/23 01:27 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
Much appreciated thank you! i apologize for asking about the obvious and being somewhat dull.

Rain is an issue around here at this time of the year, so i just focused and poured all my energy into just finding it before the season ends. Didnt have space to think of what comes after.




Gotta learn somehow.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
    #28591543 - 12/20/23 03:25 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

truth_hunterr said:
Much appreciated thank you! i apologize for asking about the obvious and being somewhat dull.

Rain is an issue around here at this time of the year, so i just focused and poured all my energy into just finding it before the season ends. Didnt have space to think of what comes after.




Surely one can never ask too many questions when it comes to mushroom identification. Better dull than dead.
Beware of cocksureness in the field of mycology.

But for the sake of science you should dry and save a few specimens for further research, since there
are few reported finds of this genus in Algeria. Keep at least two specimens, one to send off for DNA
sequencing if necessary, and one for backup.

Whenever you find more, please take pictures and post in this thread, especially if you find them in new locations.


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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
    #28591697 - 12/20/23 05:21 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Sequencing's free if you send it to the US. Someone here can probably provide an address.
If it's rainy season you should go and stock up, I assume the season is somewhat short there. Take more photos! Happy hunting!


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