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truth_hunterr
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[Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls 2
#28588255 - 12/18/23 11:27 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Hello, i have been researching on psilocybe mairei which led me to the original locality of this mushroom where it was first described by Maire in his paper. On december 7th i found (first 3 photos) this suspicious looking mushroom growing on a small piece of rotten wood under cedrus (cedrus atlantica) which featured a seperable pellicule, I took it with me (didn't think much of it) till the cap started to change color from orangish brown to palid, and some "bluing" started to appear, i took these photos and let it spore print without cutting the cap, no spores were visible even after 24 hours!

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A week later and after 3 days of rain, i went back to the same exact location and found this lot, the caps featured like previously a very slimy-to-touch pellicule which mostly had that greenish-bluish color, When i was examining them at home the caps started to change color very rapidly! I quickly cut them and placed them on foil and isolated them with cups moisted with alchohol for printing. But again all 8 mushrooms didnt leave any spore print that could determine the color.. a microscope would help but i cant afford one. The stem's bluing became very visible after the spore printing process (26 hours after picking) Any questions for more clarification pls ask them.
Personal notes i have taken (as a begginer): • Relatively strong smell (very mushroom-y) •Grew on soil (filled with woody debris) + some grew on small pieces of rotten wood. • No ring zone present to my rookie eyes. • Stem hollow in the center as seen in the picture. • Habitat is a cedrus atlantica forrest at an elevation of approx 1300 meters. • Spotted like 20+ of this mushroom growing in a 5 meter radius. • The bluing is still visible even after drying.









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Psilosadhu


Registered: 12/19/19
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
#28588292 - 12/18/23 11:58 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Very nice! Never seen them here before! Looks like you might've found some sterile ones. Don't know much about this species but I'm sure you've hit jackpot!
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Pluviophile
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Psilosadhu]
#28588338 - 12/18/23 12:31 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Anglerfish
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
#28588366 - 12/18/23 01:02 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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What a great first post! 
This must indeed be that species, unless there are other similar ones growing in Algeria. Supposedly close to or even identical to Psilocybe serbica, if I'm not entirely mistaken.
Growing mostly in beech forests in Central Europe, it would be nice to know what kind of wood these grew from.
Please please try to find more and take loads of pictures!
Welcome to the Shroomery.
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Dandurn777



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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
#28588381 - 12/18/23 01:13 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Anglerfish said: What a great first post! 
This must indeed be that species, unless there are other similar ones growing in Algeria. Supposedly close to or even identical to Psilocybe serbica, if I'm not entirely mistaken.
Growing mostly in beech forests in Central Europe, it would be nice to know what kind of wood these grew from.
Please please try to find more and take loads of pictures!
Welcome to the Shroomery. 
Yeah. Serbicas came to my mind too.
-------------------- Prying open my Allenii
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Dandurn777]
#28588518 - 12/18/23 03:14 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Yeah, it's Psilocybe serbica, nothing too exotic, it has already been sequenced and confirmed from Algeria.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Definitely a good one to send in for sequencing - the more sequences we have from Algeria that match P. serbica the more confident we can be that Psilocybe mairei is the correct name for P. serbica. We have just one, which is a very small sample size, which is why I still use the name P. serbica.
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Anglerfish
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Yeah, it's Psilocybe serbica, nothing too exotic, it has already been sequenced and confirmed from Algeria.
I think it is pretty exotic to find Psilocybe mushrooms in a country that is largely covered by desert areas. Especially since it is a wood lover.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#28588545 - 12/18/23 03:31 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: ...the more confident we can be that Psilocybe mairei is the correct name for P. serbica.
Psilocybe mairei could never be correct name for Psilocybe serbica, since Psilocybe serbica is older name and it takes precedence over mairei, that is how things work in taxonomy. So correct name for Psilocybe mairei is Psilocybe serbica, and for what it's worth, these mushrooms look just like the typical serbica I find.
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Anglerfish
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: ...the more confident we can be that Psilocybe mairei is the correct name for P. serbica.
Psilocybe mairei could never be correct name for Psilocybe serbica, since Psilocybe serbica is older name and it takes precedence over mairei, that is how things work in taxonomy. So correct name for Psilocybe mairei is Psilocybe serbica, and for what it's worth, these mushrooms look just like the typical serbica I find.
Yep, seems like P. serbica has a four year head start.
Wouldn't hurt to know more about the ones native to Algeria, though. Pretty curious why that species thrives there, and not (as it seems at least) along the Spanish Mediterranean coast, for instance. But they grow some places in Italy too, if I remember correctly. Which makes some sense since it is closer to the Balkans.
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
#28588753 - 12/18/23 05:47 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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I figured it out why he's suggesting otherwise, it seems that Psilocybe mairei name is emerging from Hypholoma cyanescens Maire 1928 chain of names, leaving serbica name hanging since it doesn't have a basionym reference. I can bitch and whine about the principle of nomenclature stability, however this species is really not endemic to Serbia, so, the epithet mairei might be more suiting.
more on mairei: https://www.scielo.org.mx/pdf/abm/n100/n100a4.pdf
The name Psilocybe mairei is based on a fungus from Algeria described by Maire (1928) as Hypholoma cyanescens, that Malençon (1942) later redescribed from the same locality. Kühner and Romagnesi (1953) considered this species as Geophila cyanescens (R. Maire) Kühner & Romagnesi. Subsequently Singer and Smith (1958) studied this fungus and related it to a species described from Argentina, Psilocybecollybioides Singer & A.H. Sm., because both mushrooms share taxonomic features and their semi-sterile conditions. However, Singer and Smith (1958) stated that Maire’s fungus is different from the European P. cyanescens Wakef., although someauthors, e.g. Krieglsteiner (1984) and Babos (1997), considered P. cyanescens assynonym of Maire’s mushroom. Malençon and Bertault (1970) redescribed Maire´s fungus as Geophila cyanescens from Morocco, and later Singer (1973) reportedthis species as Psilocybe mairei, to separate it from P. collybioides. The habitat ofPsilocybe mairei in Algeria and Morocco is soil or small pieces of rotten wood, under Abies, Cedrus, Pinus or Quercus according to Maire(1928),Malençon(1942),Singer and Smith (1958) and Malençon and Bertault (1970).
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Anglerfish
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Haha, down the rabbit hole of taxonomy we go!
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CHUCK.HNTR
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Anglerfish]
#28588799 - 12/18/23 06:22 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Cool find OP. Fun thread 👀
-------------------- "What is the practical application of a million universes?" -Alan Watts
   
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Dandurn777



Registered: 12/09/19
Posts: 1,566
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: CHUCK.HNTR]
#28589042 - 12/18/23 08:52 PM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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🍿
-------------------- Prying open my Allenii
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truth_hunterr
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Can we please address the fact that no spores were macroscopicaly visible for all sespecimeñ even after 24 hours?.. i tried different light angles and levels, i even usued a magnifying glass but couldnt spot a single spec, is this something that serbicas usualy do in other parts of the world?

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truth_hunterr
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
#28589336 - 12/19/23 04:37 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Thank you all for the feedback, it seems that i have found a serbica or a really close ally, what's puzzling is that: •The original habitat of mairei is identical to this one, my lot is located like 2km away from maire's. • other similiarities include the long and not so tense bluing. • another similiarity is the finite amount of spores that are produced, which in maire's words "the production of spores is very less abundant to the point that it's impossible to determine the tint, we determined the latter after using the brush method suggested by AZOULAY"
Other than that nothing in maire's description matches with what i've found, the stem in mairei is "stuffed with silky pith" mine is hollow

I used paul statemt's description from his book "psilocybin mushrooms of the world" because maire's original description is in this language that google can't detect, the entire document is in french (i can read french) but not the description: "Hypholoma cyaneseens R. Maire, n. sp. — Carpophora gregaria, interdum subcaespitosa, hygrophana ; sapor milis ; odo> rapae debilis ; caro lulvella, in stipitis basi fulva, sicca pal- lesccns, in medulla stipitis alba ; sporae in cumulo tusco-purpureae. Stipes subaequalis 1. basi sensim parum incrassatus, 2,5-4 cm. x 2-5 mm., cum pileo confluons, cartilagineus, medulla sericea alba farctus, demain tabalosas, cute aduata siccus, plus minusve librillosus, apice pruinosus, albidus, tacla larde caeralco-macu-
latus. Cortina araneosa alba, fugax. Pileus e convexo expansus, haud umbonatus, 1,5-3 cm. diam., tenuis, in disco parum crassior, carnoso-subcartilagineiis, elasticus, cule secernibili viscosus, glaber, opacus, udus sordide ochraceus (K : 157 -+- 102 dilut.), siccus pallescens (Iv : 153 D), tactu caeruleo maculatus ; margo incurvus, concolor, glaber, vix nevix striatus. Lamellae confertae, tenues, cum hymenophoro confluentes, angustae (1,5-2,5 mm.), arcuatae, antice attenuatae, postice plus minusve rotundatae, anguste adnatae, ex albido sordide et pallide ocbraceae (K : 128 D + 153D), demum dilute fusco-rufae, tactu caeruleo maculatae, acie albida pruinosa ,haud intervenatae ; lamcllulae attenuatae. Lamellarum acies cvstidiis nuinerosis lieteromorpha ; cystidia aciei fusiformia apice in appendicem subcylindraceam oxalato calcico incrustatam producta, 30-40 X 6-8 u ; mediostratus regu- laris ex hypliis longiusculis subaequalibus 5-8 u. diam. contextus ; subhymenium tenue ramosum (= c. 1 /2 hyménium) ; cystidia in faciebus lamellae rarissima, caeterum cystidiis aciei conformia ; basidiaclavata 4-spora, nonnullis 2-sporis immixtis, 28-32 X 7 9 a; sporac parcae ellipsoideae, sub lente pellucide fusco-purpureae, crassiuscule tunicatae, laeves, apice rotundatae 1. subattenualae et poro pertusae, basi in apiculum hyalinum sublateralem, con- tractae, 10-12 x 5,5-0,5 p., nonnullis (e basidiis bisporis ortis) oblongo-ellipsoideis, usque ad 20 X 7,5 u, immixtis. G—. NH 3 —"
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RenegadeMycologist
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
#28589342 - 12/19/23 04:52 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
truth_hunterr said: Can we please address the fact that no spores were macroscopicaly visible for all sespecimeñ even after 24 hours?.. i tried different light angles and levels, i even usued a magnifying glass but couldnt spot a single spec, is this something that serbicas usualy do in other parts of the world?
Yes friend, it's common for serbica to refuse to drop a print, I've seen many people in my country struggling with it. What usually helps is to keep them moist as you can, putting a drop of water on the cap every hour or so. Just be careful where the water goes, so it does not wash the prints.
I can't help but remember the good old Jan Borovicka who separated serbica group into several different species judging by spore size and morphology. Wondering what's the spore size in Algerian collections...Might save serbica if there's a huge difference in micro morphology, but then I'll also have to accept arcana, bohemica, moravica and other clown species...
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truth_hunterr
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
#28589346 - 12/19/23 05:03 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Here are more photos:

















48 HOURS LATER: (out of the isolated cups and into a white paper, still no visible spores)
Edited by truth_hunterr (01/02/24 06:41 AM)
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truth_hunterr
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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#28589361 - 12/19/23 05:28 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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How do i actualy send some? (Legaly and financialy speaking)
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Re: [Algeria, psilocybe mairei habitat] ID help pls [Re: truth_hunterr]
#28589370 - 12/19/23 05:42 AM (1 month, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
truth_hunterr said: Thank you all for the feedback, it seems that i have found a serbica or a really close ally, what's puzzling is that: •The original habitat of mairei is identical to this one, my lot is located like 2km away from maire's. • other similiarities include the long and not so tense bluing. • another similiarity is the finite amount of spores that are produced, which in maire's words "the production of spores is very less abundant to the point that it's impossible to determine the tint, we determined the latter after using the brush method suggested by AZOULAY"
Other than that nothing in maire's description matches with what i've found, the stem in mairei is "stuffed with silky pith" mine is hollow

I used paul statemt's description from his book "psilocybin mushrooms of the world" because maire's original description is in this language that google can't detect, the entire document is in french (i can read french) but not the description: "Hypholoma cyaneseens R. Maire, n. sp. — Carpophora gregaria, interdum subcaespitosa, hygrophana ; sapor milis ; odo> rapae debilis ; caro lulvella, in stipitis basi fulva, sicca pal- lesccns, in medulla stipitis alba ; sporae in cumulo tusco-purpureae. Stipes subaequalis 1. basi sensim parum incrassatus, 2,5-4 cm. x 2-5 mm., cum pileo confluons, cartilagineus, medulla sericea alba farctus, demain tabalosas, cute aduata siccus, plus minusve librillosus, apice pruinosus, albidus, tacla larde caeralco-macu-
latus. Cortina araneosa alba, fugax. Pileus e convexo expansus, haud umbonatus, 1,5-3 cm. diam., tenuis, in disco parum crassior, carnoso-subcartilagineiis, elasticus, cule secernibili viscosus, glaber, opacus, udus sordide ochraceus (K : 157 -+- 102 dilut.), siccus pallescens (Iv : 153 D), tactu caeruleo maculatus ; margo incurvus, concolor, glaber, vix nevix striatus. Lamellae confertae, tenues, cum hymenophoro confluentes, angustae (1,5-2,5 mm.), arcuatae, antice attenuatae, postice plus minusve rotundatae, anguste adnatae, ex albido sordide et pallide ocbraceae (K : 128 D + 153D), demum dilute fusco-rufae, tactu caeruleo maculatae, acie albida pruinosa ,haud intervenatae ; lamcllulae attenuatae. Lamellarum acies cvstidiis nuinerosis lieteromorpha ; cystidia aciei fusiformia apice in appendicem subcylindraceam oxalato calcico incrustatam producta, 30-40 X 6-8 u ; mediostratus regu- laris ex hypliis longiusculis subaequalibus 5-8 u. diam. contextus ; subhymenium tenue ramosum (= c. 1 /2 hyménium) ; cystidia in faciebus lamellae rarissima, caeterum cystidiis aciei conformia ; basidiaclavata 4-spora, nonnullis 2-sporis immixtis, 28-32 X 7 9 a; sporac parcae ellipsoideae, sub lente pellucide fusco-purpureae, crassiuscule tunicatae, laeves, apice rotundatae 1. subattenualae et poro pertusae, basi in apiculum hyalinum sublateralem, con- tractae, 10-12 x 5,5-0,5 p., nonnullis (e basidiis bisporis ortis) oblongo-ellipsoideis, usque ad 20 X 7,5 u, immixtis. G—. NH 3 —"
Here is the description in English as written by Guzman for "The Genus Psilocybe":
Pileus 15-25 (-35).um in diam., convex to campanulate or conic-campanulate, then expanding, not umbonate, glabrous, even, with the margin faintly striate when humid, viscid, with a separable gelatinous pellicle, hygrophanous, ochraceous with a bister tone, finally dusky olive, fading to yellowish white or dull stramineous from the disc to the margin, staining blue where touched injured.
Lamellae adnexed, whitish or pallid argillaceous when young, when mature becoming lilac-beige to purple brown or light rufous-fuscous, with edges whitish pruinate.
Stipe (25-) 40-75 x 2-3 (-5) mm, equal or subequal or slightly enlarged below, solid to pseudo fistulose, stuffed with a white silky medulla, white to whitish or yellow- ish, pruinose on the apex, innately fibrillose downward. Basal mycelium cottony white, agglutinating, with long white rhizomorphs, 0.5 mm thick, Veil cortinate, white, fugacious, except for the fibrils on the stipe.
Context amber color or fulvOllS, darker in the stipe, bluing in all regions when bruished. Odor farinaceous, taste mild to somewhat farinaceous.
Spore print purplish blackish Or purple brown.
Spores (10-) lI-J2 (-13.S) x 5.5-6.2 (-7) JIm, elongate-ellipsoid both in side and lateral view, thick walled, yellow-brown or light (useous brown, with an apical broad germ pore and a short appendage.
Basidia 25-35 x 7.5-9 .urn. 4-spored, hyaline, cylindrical or constricted, with sterig- mata 5.urn long.
Pleurocystidia absent or simil ar to the cheilocystidia and near the gill edge; fusaid or sublageniform, 3()..35 x 6-7.S,um.
Cheilocyslidia 30-40 x 6-8 pm, hyaline, abundant, forming a sterile band. lageniform. fusiform or ampullaceous, with the apex often incrusted with calcium oxa- late.
Subhymenium seemingly subcellular. hyaline. Hymcnopodium formed of more or less parallel broad hyphae. Trama regular, with elements 5-8 /Jm in diameter. Epi- cutis as a gelatinized, thin layer composed of narrow hyaline hyphae. Hypodermium with elongated hyphae. Upper part of the stipe with caulocystidia. Clamp con- nections present.
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