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InvisibleNillion
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Registered: 04/14/22
Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: Advanced Morning Glory LSA Cold Water Extraction Method [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #28603189 - 12/30/23 10:15 AM (28 days, 10 hours ago)

How are the clavine alkaloids being separated from the LSA?
From: Extraction and Identification of Clavine and Lysergic acid
Alkaloids From Morning Glories by Witters in 1975:



From Clavine and Lysergic Acid Alkaloids in Varieties of Morning Glory by Vining, Taber and Heacock in 1962:



I'm familiar with a CWE prep method where fresh fruit of Ipomoea species, which are not fully ripe, are mashed with a fork and then covered with water, just a bit and mixed for maybe 30 seconds to a minute and then the material is poured through a sieve to remove the seed material. Then it can be ingested, if that is the goal. Whole prep takes 5-10 minutes. Unripe fruits tend to be stronger than dried ripe fruits.

The version of this for dried material, like with Hawaiian baby woodrose, which is rarely available fresh, is to use a coffee grinder to grind the material more finely into a powder and then do a quick soak and shake as well. Alternatively the seeds can be soaked in water to germinate them or begin the germination process and they can then be treated a bit more like the fresh seeds and just mashed with a fork or something.

I'm kidding about removing the Clavine alkaloids.

I'd wager that LSA and LAH aren't responsible for the psychedelic effects of morning glory seeds, that clavines are. Without chromatography there is no way that any of the known extraction methods can actually separate the clavine alkaloids from their breakdown product lysergic acid. In fact, some studies show clavine alkaloids at their maximum before seeds are ripe and dry and that they decrease over time and lysergic acid increases, as their breakdown product. This results in a decrease in potency over time. It is widely reported by users that aged seeds are far less active than fresh. So, contrary to popular belief, the anecdotal evidence and the chemical data both indicate that the molecules responsible for psychedelic effect are the clavine alkaloids. Ergot fungi also produce clavine alkaloids, several of which, as mentioned, break down into lysergic acid over time. It is likely that Kykeon's psychedelic effects are due to the clavine alkaloids as well.

I'm not aware of anyone taking isolated Lysergic acid and getting off. As far as I know it is a sedative that makes people sleepy. Fresher seeds are much more stimulating and like most psychedelics they tend to interfere with sleep rather than promote it.


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Offlinetregar
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Registered: 08/30/04
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Re: Advanced Morning Glory LSA Cold Water Extraction Method [Re: tregar]
    #28608270 - 01/03/24 10:31 AM (24 days, 9 hours ago)
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Logical Chaos, similar to problem you found with the seed mush, I've extracted into a couple shots of wine at least 2 dozen times, the wine captures all the alkaloids, and zero emulsion, whereas extractions with water never have worked for me, always a giant emulsion that never separates.

Note: (for instructions below with pics) never try to extract your seeds using just plain acidified water, I have tried this before, your seed debris will not separate out in the fridge, and you end up with a complete emulsion in the coffee wire filter which will not filter at all, wine is needed to effect the proper extraction, and allows the liquid to separate from the seed emulsion below, this will not happen with a plane water extration. This is how the ancient Aztec and Mayan extracted the seeds using balche, an alcohol they made themselves, see 2nd pic.

Instructions half way down page 16 with pics,: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27850299/fpart/16

Nillion, I agree with you that all the clavines in the seeds are psychoative, in fact in my thread " how to make lsi" go down to post 3 and I list the study that showed the alkaloids chanoclavine, agroclavine,elymoclavine, and lysergol in the seeds were found to be just as stimulating as lsd when administered to animals, I also give a chart in post 1 from Poland study which shows the relative amounts of them in the seeds, similar to your older chart which I have seen as well. It is combined teamwork of lsh and the various clavines that give the experience imho. Lsa has been found to be a decomposition product of lsh over time,as fresh seeds were found to have the most lsh from vendor, while seeds sitting on retail racks had the least lsh due to environmental factors such as heat causing the lsh to decompose.

Yet another reason to extract with acidic water such as wine or water acidfied with lemon juice or DL tartaric acid, as most of these very stimulating clavines are only very slightly soluble in plain water:

From "The Alkaloids: Chemistry and Physiology", page 32:
--------------------------------------------------------
"Penniclavine and Agroclavine are readily soluble in organic acids, penniclavine and agroclavine are stable to acids", wine stands as one of the sources of organic acids. Page 33 "Elymoclavine is only somewhat soluble in water". Peter Webster states in "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, the Secrets of Eleusis" in the morning glory chapter that Chanoclavine is soluble in alcohol.

From the 1957 paper "Extraction and Identification of Clavine and Lysergic acid alkaloids from morning glory":
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All members of the excitor group produced in all test animals a syndrome of central sympathetic excitation and elicited a stimulation of spontaneous activity. In this group, elymoclavine was the most potent stimulant and next come agroclavine, triseclavine, penniclavine, and LSD which are almost equipotent, as judged by the degree of symptoms exhibited in the same dose. The arousal effect of elymoclavine or agroclavine on reserpine-sedation was superior to that of LSD.

Animal experiments have shown that penniclavine, elymoclavine, lysergol, LSD and several other ergot alkaloids such as agroclavine, triseclavine, and lysergene have excitory effects on the central nervous system (Note 1: Yui & Takeo, 1957) as well as lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide (LSH) which also excites the central nervous system in animals (Note 2: Glasser, 1961).

There is also an interesting on-line interview with the LSD chemist Bear Owsley where he hits on a derivative of LSD that the ancients may have discovered and prepared for the Eleusis mystery quoted here:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Owsley: Claviceps paspali ergot, same alkaloid profile as morning glory contains many natural, highly psychedelic alkaloids. Iso-ergine is one of them, Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide or LSH is another one, and in fact, is considered nearly identical to LSD in effect. Albert Hoffman told me so himself. They believe that it was this derivative contained in extracts of c.paspali which grows on certain grass that was used in the Eleusian Mysteries.

Please keep in mind that most of the clavines are soluble in acidic water such as wine and only very slightly soluble in plain water, I list the solubilization of all these in post 3.

Check out the super high levels of the CLAVINE called PENNICLAVINE (stimulating and most likely psychedelic according to 2 studies) found in heavenly blue morning glory seeds, also see high levels of LSH detected:



attached: "several alkaloids in morning glory found just as stimulating as LSD in animal experiments"



Edited by tregar (01/04/24 08:23 AM)


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