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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OnlineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The end of war? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28600127 - 12/27/23 05:53 PM (1 month, 20 hours ago)

I agree that education is the main deterrent to war.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28600139 - 12/27/23 06:02 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

Quote:


As suggested earlier, preserving and bringing forward some impression of the reality of war as part of our education is probably helpful




It already has been... And it impresses in children a necessity of war, as if it must always exist.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Freedom]
    #28600142 - 12/27/23 06:04 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Freedom said:
I think remembering war can also perpetuate it





That's a good point.

I think the problem often hinges less on the remembering itself and more on the interpretation, reduction, justification, identities, and dogma at play.

Traumatic memories reassert themselves and tend to twist the present up a bit, and that is something else to deal with.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600144 - 12/27/23 06:09 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

I'll be waiting for a proper response not chucked full of ad hominem attacks, strawmen, & argumenta ad ignorantias.

You used a plethora of 'like a' and ad hoc references to childish rebellion.. and a sententious, liberal use of metaphors to cover up the unhideable lack of actual context, quotations or anything substantial covering Nietzsche's philosophy.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600147 - 12/27/23 06:14 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

A metaphor isn't a syllogism.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28600150 - 12/27/23 06:18 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
Quote:


As suggested earlier, preserving and bringing forward some impression of the reality of war as part of our education is probably helpful




It already has been... And it impresses in children a necessity of war, as if it must always exist.





What else does it do? How else can it be done?

"Some impression" was sloppy, but also open to something new. Teaching history as the punctuation of conflicts between societies and a fixation on the most brutal and strategically effective players probably doesn't cut it.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600159 - 12/27/23 06:29 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

I'll make it simpler.

The nature of hunger is opposed to the nature of living, because hunger not being fulfilled causes death. You can say hunger is in its nature to be fulfilled, but how could such cases of hunger be determined beforehand? They clearly are not, because death from starvation occurs. If it was meant to be fulfilled, it wouldn't exist in the first place, because there would never have been a homeostatic imbalance. Then what is the nature of a homeostatic imbalance? This is consistently ad hoc, do you not see? Constantly to some 'nature,' which is really just a placeholder word for the idea that something must always be contained in something else until an ultimate thing that encompasses everything, mono-ontologically, you could say. The very word polytheism explains all this. It is not singular. The method of making the plural into the singular is an ad hoc, fallacious form of reasoning.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Blue_Lux] * 1
    #28600168 - 12/27/23 06:36 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
I'll be waiting for a proper response not chucked full of ad hominem attacks, strawmen, & argumenta ad ignorantias.

You used a plethora of 'like a' and ad hoc references to childish rebellion.. and a sententious, liberal use of metaphors to cover up the unhideable lack of actual context, quotations or anything substantial covering Nietzsche's philosophy.



I already stated my opinion upon his philosophy as narcissistic pessimistic nihilism. 

Once again, that I mentioned that War is a part of nature, you attempt to refute it by quoting Nietzsche saying that humans are not natural creatures. I consider your reply to be little more than circumlocution itself. I could not care less about what Nietzsche thinks nor think of it as anything more than irrelevant drivel. In my opinion Nietzsche sucks dude. He's the edgelord philosopher.

The rest of it is just circumlocution to me. You want to argue about the nature of the word nature?

Good luck with that!


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600172 - 12/27/23 06:42 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

You can reply to my actual statements, otherwise omission is admission. There is no point in replying to the same lack restated with different, verbose metaphors - which really have nothing to do with Nietzsche's philosophy but with a mockingly reductionist belittlement, which says more about you than Nietzsche.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600174 - 12/27/23 06:45 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

Quote:


You want to argue about the nature of the word nature?





Really? Now you know you don't have anything to say, so you fabricate nonsensical and facile, actually circumlocutive strawmen? Just after accusing Nietzsche of circumlocution?

Ironic.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The end of war? [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #28600175 - 12/27/23 06:46 PM (1 month, 19 hours ago)

I like your mention of approaching the lesson of battling with our own impulses.
as in insight conquering war


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #28600191 - 12/27/23 07:03 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

I think that is a poor and dangerous idea. Teaching war as some thing always happening reinforces in children a false notion of the world as your enemy to conquer. Under the safety of the family and strong army men to save you from the bad guys and villains... This reinforces an anthropomorphic determinism about the world. To learn anything is to love it. What are you supposed to teach about 'war'? This is the opposite of love. It is like telling children they should learn a lot about hate, and announcing at the school board meeting that Marquis De Sade should be now a part of the 3rd grade curriculum.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleNillion
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28600202 - 12/27/23 07:12 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
You can reply to my actual statements, otherwise omission is admission. There is no point in replying to the same lack restated with different, verbose metaphors - which really have nothing to do with Nietzsche's philosophy but with a mockingly reductionist belittlement, which says more about you than Nietzsche.





As mentioned my opinion is that war is a fundamental and inseparable part of natural behavior of life. Now, you might think that quoting Nietzsche about nature somehow offers insight or perspective on the topic of war, however that is not an opinion I share. I've already provided my opinion about Nietzsche and his philosophy and yes, I do openly mock Nietzsche, I'm glad you managed to figure that out! And yes that does say more about me than it does Nietzsche. Of course that is more about me than it says about him, but in this aspect of behavioral reflection one might likewise gain insights into the significance of your own intellectual aggression and petty dismissals of the opinions of others and then we come right back to what I said about how Nietzsche seems to affect peoples attitudes.

What were my exact words there?
Quote:

I would caution against giving his mental poison excessive attention lest his poor attitude and self-defeating peseudointellectuality infect his reader, as it so commonly appears to do.




I stand by them still.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600212 - 12/27/23 07:21 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

You can say that about anyone. Give some examples of his "mental poison" and "pseudointellectuality." Seems more like a pompous excuse in deflection.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600213 - 12/27/23 07:22 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

You used a lot of words but said nothing.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600217 - 12/27/23 07:26 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

Your opinion is thus undialectical. I gave an argument as to why your hypostatization of war as some 'nature thing' is a facade that really says nothing but restates an abstract notion and pretends it is saying something other than "war is inevitable." It is really a misanthropic perspective completely devoid of pathos or ethos. And really the logos is lacking as well.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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InvisibleNillion
Nobody

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Posts: 1,000
Loc: Terra Firma
Re: The end of war? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28600230 - 12/27/23 07:41 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
I think that is a poor and dangerous idea.



Teaching self control is a dangerous idea?

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:
Teaching war as some thing always happening reinforces in children a false notion of the world as your enemy to conquer.




Teaching children that violence is a natural instinct and that they have a temper and need to control it reinforces the idea that the world is a thing to be conquered? I don't find that tenable.


Quote:

Blue_Lux said: To learn anything is to love it.



I don't find that tenable.

I'm a grandparent and most of my children are adults.

I have found that one can teach children about hate without teaching them to hate and about violence without teaching them to be violent.
In fact, I've found that teaching them that violence is a thing any human is capable of offers them more control, not less, over their own instincts towards it.

Quote:

Blue_Lux said:Your opinion is thus undialectical. I gave an argument as to why your hypostatization of war as some 'nature thing' is a facade that really says nothing but restates an abstract notion and pretends it is saying something other than "war is inevitable." It is really a misanthropic perspective completely devoid of pathos or ethos. And really the logos is lacking as well.




To you saying that war is a part of nature is misanthropic?

I think that's pretty delusional and that you are just being dismissive and insulting of other opinions that differ from your own by mischaracterizing them.


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InvisibleBlue_Lux
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion]
    #28600232 - 12/27/23 07:43 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

I would reply to that nitpicking nonsense, but I can already tell you are arguing eristically, and therefore there is no point.

Here's something you may resonate with. Don't cast your pearls to the swine.


--------------------
I the music, not the bling
https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm
𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱
May I ask what your bud type is?
  LXIVAMOR 
Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.


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OnlineFreedom
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Nillion] * 2
    #28600235 - 12/27/23 07:46 PM (1 month, 18 hours ago)

its hard to understand other people when we listen through the filters of our own views and assumptions


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OfflineBardy
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Re: The end of war? [Re: Blue_Lux]
    #28600248 - 12/27/23 07:57 PM (1 month, 17 hours ago)

You need to chill out man. Stop taking personal offence on behalf of some dude you don’t even know.

You don’t seem to be even attempting to try to see things how Nillion or others do.

Ironically, this is war like behaviour. You’re helping to prove the point that this kind of behaviour is innate.

Just because it is innate though doesn’t mean we can’t curb it. Rape is a natural phenomenon as well, but we rightly think of it as a terrible thing and put measures in place to try to stop it as much as possible. Those measures evolve with time the same as everything else, and maybe one day we will be as free from war and rape as much as we possibly can be.

I’m not optimistic we can get to a place that has gross zero “bad things” for the very same reason people don’t seem to be able to always control their aggression in passionate arguments such as this.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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