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OfflinePainkiller
shaman and sorcerer
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There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health
    #28563688 - 12/01/23 11:59 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

How everything is is a normal reaction to circumstance.


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Anonymous #1

Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Painkiller] * 3
    #28573773 - 12/08/23 01:03 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

People can be born with schizophrenia bad enough they can’t function in the real world.
There are bipolar people that go from being out of their mind high. To being suicidally low.
I would say those people weren’t victims of circumstance.


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Anonymous #2

Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Painkiller] * 1
    #28573979 - 12/08/23 07:28 AM (1 month, 20 days ago)

Agree with anon 1


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Registered: 03/13/20
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Last seen: 11 hours, 14 minutes
Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #28575039 - 12/08/23 09:42 PM (1 month, 19 days ago)

Naw we is fucked up, we's need LSD, or angels, or love, or all of the above....


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Painkiller]
    #28583291 - 12/14/23 10:38 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

I'm always fascinated when people eagerly tell me the functioning of their brain is different than "normal" people.  How would they know?  Sometimes they seem to be proud - as if they are special, in a unique way.  And why do these people want to tell me their brain is malfunctioning?  I find it perplexing.


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Anonymous #2

Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Painkiller]
    #28583447 - 12/15/23 05:35 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

I think some people use it as an out to accept responsibility for themselves
Not all people
Some


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Offlineyoosername
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Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 459
Loc: Terra Fracta
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #28583492 - 12/15/23 06:26 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #1 said:
People can be born with schizophrenia bad enough they can’t function in the real world.
There are bipolar people that go from being out of their mind high. To being suicidally low.
I would say those people weren’t victims of circumstance.




People are often all too quick to slap a radically reductive label on things and dismiss important details and context.  For example, a child born with schizophrenia clearly had some genetic or environmental factors at play, but instead of investigating those factors, it is more likely they'd just get stuck on meds from a very young age.  Nothing changes, nothing is learned.  But the circumstances surrounding their development largely determined their fate; their genetics and exposures, both nature and nurture.

In the modern world we live in a low level chemical cocktail of ever-increasing toxicity, there's no escaping it.  Everyone is affected, though few notice the effects.  Some of these toxins alter our dna, rendering us more susceptible to such toxins over each successive generation.  Just imagine what that means for us as a species.


--------------------
O son of Kunti, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable om in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: yoosername]
    #28584724 - 12/15/23 11:52 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

It means that pollution will kill us. More like a planetary mass-suicide, really. That and climate change.

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

Silurian Hypothesis.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: yoosername]
    #28586581 - 12/17/23 09:40 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

yoosername said:

... a child born with schizophrenia clearly had some genetic or environmental factors at play




How would one diagnose a newborn with schizophrenia? 

What people call the signs and symptoms of schizophrenia is generally not observed until the teenage years. How can a baby tell us they are hearing voices or have a distorted view of reality or experience bizarre confused thinking?

I experience social withdrawal, sudden agitation and confusion, disorganized thinking, strange emotions, and occasional catatonic behavior. Eye contact is sometimes difficult.  The list of symptoms sure seem like common human issues.  I hear crazy irrational voices in my head every day.  Anyone who doesn't is a freak of nature.


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OfflineMilleresque
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Registered: 04/10/22
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28591802 - 12/20/23 06:49 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Disagree with the OP—unless you’re wanting to separate “health” from behaviours and proclivities.

There IS something decidedly wrong with certifiable narcissists (I’ve only met one, maybe two, and they ruined lives and directly contributed to the suicide of their then partner), and there’s nothing normal about the guy who gets slighted over a trivial matter and then beats the “offender” to within an inch of their life over it.

How about serial killers? Rapists? Paedophiles?  Nothing wrong with their mental health.

What about the teenager who writes up a manifesto and stalks through their school with a semi automatic weapon and puts round after round into their classmates?

How about psychopaths? Stalin? Hitler.

No…everyone’s mental health is absolutely hunky dory.

Now, If you’ll excuse me I’m going to go rip the wings of a friends parakeet and put them in my mouth so I can show off my new feathery rainbow coloured tongue.


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Anonymous #1

Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #28591818 - 12/20/23 07:03 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
How would one diagnose a newborn with schizophrenia? 





You’re being pedantic.
People were born with schizophrenia. They develop it later. It is crippling. You don’t need to be a baby to have cripplingly bad schizophrenia.


Edited by Anonymous (12/20/23 08:06 PM)


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Anonymous #2

Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Painkiller] * 1
    #28592340 - 12/21/23 06:11 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Schizophrenia is real and the extreme cases struggle


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Milleresque]
    #28592832 - 12/21/23 02:33 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
Disagree with the OP—unless you’re wanting to separate “health” from behaviours and proclivities.




That's kind of the point.

Quote:

Milleresque said:
There IS something decidedly wrong with certifiable narcissists (I’ve only met one, maybe two, and they ruined lives and directly contributed to the suicide of their then partner), and there’s nothing normal about the guy who gets slighted over a trivial matter and then beats the “offender” to within an inch of their life over it.




Certain people value certain things over others. Narcissists value self-image over your health.

Quote:

Milleresque said:
How about serial killers? Rapists? Paedophiles?  Nothing wrong with their mental health.




Nope. Nothing wrong with their mental health. They usually have problems with impulse control, though.

Quote:

Milleresque said:
What about the teenager who writes up a manifesto and stalks through their school with a semi automatic weapon and puts round after round into their classmates?




Stochastic terrorism. You make people angry, and you give them nothing to do, while glorifying mass-murder. Eventually, someone decides that mass murder is the solution to their anger. Bang bang.

Quote:

Milleresque said:
How about psychopaths? Stalin? Hitler.




While the topics are debated, neither was a clear psychopath. They just really believed in their respective (far left, far right) visions, mixed in with a good bit of leader-focused high-RWA authoritarianism.

Quote:

Milleresque said:
No…everyone’s mental health is absolutely hunky dory.




In an insane society, a sane man is considered insane.


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OfflineMilleresque
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Registered: 04/10/22
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28593928 - 12/22/23 10:38 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Completely disagree with your equivocations kryptos. All of the groups mentioned have terrible mental health. A large number of school shooters are on medications for serious mental imbalance.

Entirely respect your opinion. Entirely disagree.  There are sizeable portions of our society who are mentally ill. Hell I’d say the majority of us are, in our small way, batshit crazy.  Including me.  I have a moderate level of clinical depression. I recognise that I suffer from social anxiety.  I’m not giving myself any “oh no all of that is fine, nothing wrong there” garbage excuses.
    It’s poor mental health and I can dramatically improve it.

To pretend there are no mental health problems is…insane.  Try telling that to the good people who work in the mental health field, especially in acute units at hospitals.

They’ll tell you some wonderful stories.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Milleresque]
    #28594963 - 12/23/23 07:47 AM (1 month, 5 days ago)

Unless you believe in the Catch-22 model of mental health (they must have been depressed! Why? Because they committed suicide! Why did they commit suicide? Because they were depressed! No need to look any deeper and question anything else!), there is very little evidence that mass shooters and other violent individuals have mental health issues.

There are some mental illnesses, sure. Stuff like schizophrenia which has actual structural causes.

Otherwise, using "mental health" as an explanation is a societal self-defense mechanism. Society does not want to consider the possibility of suicide or mass violence to be a rational choice, because it would force us to consider the flaws within the society we have built.

It is much easier to just write them off as crazies. Nothing can be done about crazies. Something can be done about Shit Life Syndrome. We just don't want to do anything about it.


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OfflineMilleresque
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Registered: 04/10/22
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #28595248 - 12/23/23 12:55 PM (1 month, 5 days ago)

^now most of that I agree wholeheartedly with. Perhaps I didn’t fully reckon on your meaning.

As someone who has in the past seriously considered taking my own life because of “shit life syndrome”—not to mention a serious repugnance for the prescribed path of life/societal hullabaloo, I’ve often wondered the same, although I wouldn’t dare call a sizeable portion of suicides “rational”.  That’s impossible to do unless everyone who decided to commit the act left detailed notation on their reasons why.

Suicide doesn’t strike me as a rational act, unless circumstance are so indescribably awful that there truly isn’t another option.

By the same token I’ve felt PRECISELY that way (and had ten single spaced pages detailing and validating that to both myself and the traumatised people I’d have left behind), only to find that having held on or had some dramatic intervention….

I wasn’t thinking clearly.  I had clinical depression.  “SLS” as well call it breeds depression, which drives cyclic thoughts of hopelessness, which can in turn rationalise suicide.

Doesn’t make it rational.  95% of the time I’m so happy I didn’t take my own life.  Not for anyone else (that guilt trip “think of your family” schtick irks me) but because as flawed as I am and as daunting and shitty as my personal life can be, I get to breathe and feel warmth and talk on an Internet forum.

Anyhow kryptos good shit.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Milleresque] * 1
    #28595412 - 12/23/23 03:14 PM (1 month, 4 days ago)

Quote:

Milleresque said:
Doesn’t make it rational.




Quote:

Milleresque said:
Suicide doesn’t strike me as a rational act, unless circumstance are so indescribably awful that there truly isn’t another option.




Kinda contradicting yourself a little bit there, no? Under the right circumstances, suicide can, in fact, be a perfectly rational decision. Heroic, even. Go look up a list of posthumous MOH awards.

It is rational to buy a winter coat. It is less rational to buy a winter coat to go to the Bahamas.

Same thing with violence. It is irrational to commit random acts of violence. It is rational to commit targeted acts of violence in retribution to state violence. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

My point lies in the rejection of the thought-terminating cliche that is "mental health issues". It's a way to hide from responsibility and blame the (conveniently dead) person entirely for their actions. You can't reason with crazy--that is the whole point. It is irrational. Therefore, there is no need to look deeper at the underlying causes. An irrational actor has no legitimate underlying reasons, therefore all we can do is shrug, offer a plate of thoughts and prayers tots and pears, and move on.

You see these thought-terminating cliches in many parts of society:
"If the globe is warming, why is it snowing outside? Checkmate, liberals."
"You can't reason with crazy"
"You can't regulate evil"

They're all ways to avoid confronting difficult topics, especially for people that have vested financial (or other) interests in not fixing the problem. Don't fall for that. The significant majority of people act in a rational manner...but they may be affected by irrational circumstances. Ignoring the circumstances that drive their actions just means that the same thing will happen to someone else next week.


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Anonymous #3

Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Painkiller]
    #28614445 - 01/08/24 07:42 PM (19 days, 17 hours ago)

OP nailed the fallacy of sweeping generalizations. That was an easy one though, often used in awareness.

The other bit is more complicated though, because it's usually done out of true ignorance. IMO - why do people say that the horrific people committing atrocious acts of violence are mentally ill? It's too difficult to acknowledge that people do things that bad with full mental capacity. That would mean just anyone could do those things, including themselves. This then perpetuates stereotypes and fear around mental illness as a whole, and has real life consequences.


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Registered: 03/13/20
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Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #28615318 - 01/09/24 02:08 PM (18 days, 23 hours ago)

It all starts in childhood and until now has been unfixable.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Anonymous #4

Re: There's nothing fundamentally wrong with anyone's mental health [Re: Painkiller]
    #28616350 - 01/10/24 12:34 PM (18 days, 37 minutes ago)

It can be difficult for those experiencing mental health issues to find comfort and self acceptance.

For someone with a diagnosis it is easy to fall into the perception that they are flawed or aren't who they are supposed to be, this is mental and emotional poison but society reinforces it constantly.

The trick is realizing that a person can have mental health problems and also realizing that there is nothing wrong with who they are, nor in treating the symptoms they experience. Addressing and treating those things is not a weakness or sign of a flaw, it is just a way a person can approach their life in a useful way, like drinking a cup of coffee or wearing sunscreen.


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