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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz] 1
#28582342 - 12/14/23 08:36 AM (1 month, 14 days ago) |
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Is blocking traffic a legitimate/effective way to protest? - Yes - if there are alternate routes.
Does it deny a basic right to travel? - Yes, unless there is an alternate route.
Should protestors be surprised when they get ran over? - Yes, and the perpetrator should face consequences.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Kickle]
#28582400 - 12/14/23 09:41 AM (1 month, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Streets should only be blocked for parades and VIPs. Those are the legitimate reasons.

I consider parades to be official theater, to which we must submit. In Russia & Greece they drive military vehicles in the parades. Noisy smelly and scary.
All the parades seem to be residue of military regimes, or funerals. I protest against that. but am not sticking my neck out nor do I wish to block the street with my body.
funerals are something we have to put up with.
Macy's shift to the Sanity Clause is a funny twist in street blocking.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28584483 - 12/15/23 08:28 PM (1 month, 12 days ago) |
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blocking traffic peacefully (unless it is a fire engine or an ambulance) with soft bodies is not impacting life and death, however, running people over is impacting in that way, it's horrifyingly illegal and dangerous behavior.
that is not personal opinion. one is man slaughter and the other is an expression of free speech, maybe not 100% lawfully (if no street occupancy permit had been obtained), but not a serious offense, not even the breaking of glass - not even touching - it's peaceful obstruction.
you can't say there are good people on both sides of that. really.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28584863 - 12/16/23 05:13 AM (1 month, 12 days ago) |
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When driving little suzie use an ALEF
https://alef.aero/preorder.html
and yes if an unpermitted street occupancy does block a fire engine, the obstructors are prosecuted - not for manslaughter but there is a legal provision underwhich they go to jail and are fined.
worse if someone dies of course.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Freedom]
#28585834 - 12/16/23 06:34 PM (1 month, 11 days ago) |
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like do your own thing, and don't mess with me doing my own thing. The old Hippie motto!
And then there are some shared things that have their own rules. like the road and the right to assemble, and publicly protest about something shared, in a space that is shared.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28586352 - 12/17/23 05:45 AM (1 month, 11 days ago) |
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how did rights stop existing and any social structure remain?
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28586385 - 12/17/23 06:23 AM (1 month, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: As we've been discussing rights are mental postulations. They ebb and flow. Social structure can exist in absence of rights. Slavery comes to mind. There are still rights but only for the few.
And while it's debatable, investment firms buying up all the houses at inflated prices with the intention of renting them out in perpetuity leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
so you agree that the erosion of rights leads to slavery and investment companies have no imagination (of what to do with the money) and think that they have a right to make everyone miserable by grabbing up other people's property rights.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz] 1
#28586857 - 12/17/23 01:32 PM (1 month, 11 days ago) |
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In Canada we have a charter of rights and freedoms I think it is a good start
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28613991 - 01/08/24 11:00 AM (20 days, 2 hours ago) |
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Wait a minute, are you equating occupying the streets with heavy machinery with occupying the streets with people? Ottawa was physically under siege with an organized blockade, that is not a street protest. Removal of the blockade required heavy machinery, removal of street protestors only requires a few police. The scale of it is astonishingly different, and the issues also astonishingly different.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28614022 - 01/08/24 11:29 AM (20 days, 2 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I'm not unaware of that. It's not the scope but the support along political lines that I find interesting. I suppose it would be equally valid to bring up the BLM riots, 2 billion in damages and 20 lives lost. American politicians on the left egged it on.
In all these cases, whether individuals trying to travel, or stay alive, or keep their property, there was obvious infringement of liberty.
can you support the fact that the left "egged that on" in the BLM story line, I am aware that the right was pushing to suppress and clear the streets by force, but I am not aware of any egging on in the way that Trump egged on the insurection. The left did oppose the idea of suppression by force, that is not egging on IMO.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28614084 - 01/08/24 12:56 PM (20 days, 47 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: ... She later clarified when asked that it was the protests and not the riots that needed to be more confrontational despite the atmosphere at the time which suggested that if Chauvin was found innocent there would definitely be an increase in violence and infringement of liberty on random people. ...
and what did you think about Chauvin's right to extinguish the life out of a shoplifter.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28614126 - 01/08/24 01:46 PM (19 days, 23 hours ago) |
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I would have supported further investigation. In any case, at least you realize that this was about not one improper arrest with deadly consequences, but that there is a legacy of outrageous crime committed by police forces against blacks, which needs to be rectified. The riots are not due to one wrongful death. It is a huge issue, and not exactly something we should be left and right about - unless right means racist abuse is good fun, and I think that is not the case.
Now lets pull back and have a peek at the occupation of Ottawa, wasn't that about mask mandates and immunization misinformation? The enemy in this case is the virus, and people have to work together to manage viral infection cycles especially when millions were dying who had a lot to offer in life.
I don't think this is apples and apples, not even apples and oranges, but in comparing the two types of social unrest, you are going for apples and nutbars here, which tastes ok, but makes no sense really at all.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28614177 - 01/08/24 02:45 PM (19 days, 22 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
Quote:
I would have supported further investigation.
Until you got the answer you wanted? My apologies if I've read too much into your words!
So you believe the issue of liberty in regard to individuals who obviously didn't commit original infringements isn't a commonality in these protests? Assuming you answer in the negative, is it me or you that's trying to obfuscate that basic premise that I thought was interesting enough to post about? Is it me or you that's trying to give the context of this thread a political bent?
please rephrase this. I am not able to understand what you are getting at. or what you are reacting to.
I said I would have supported further investigation into what was already exposed as a crime on video. i.e. who is blocking the investigations and why. I might expect several efforts to stall and block, but when everyone knows that a lethal crime has been committed, covering it up is not an option that anyone can assume with dignity.
is that what you are talking about?
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Rahz]
#28614335 - 01/08/24 05:45 PM (19 days, 19 hours ago) |
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what would I have been agreeing to with that yes, and I asked for some clarification or rephrasing, but I am not blocking the street about it, that is not my way.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Freedom]
#28614769 - 01/09/24 03:58 AM (19 days, 9 hours ago) |
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Personally I would avoid any taking of hostages in street occupancy or other modes of protest. but also I would avoid making human shields out of children and non-political participants in demonstrations.
and in escalations to war, human shielding and the death of children must be avoided equally.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Joh.Ke]
#28629805 - 01/21/24 12:48 PM (7 days, 55 minutes ago) |
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blocking people as a negotiating tactic is akin to hostage taking as a negotiation tactic.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Freedom]
#28630291 - 01/21/24 06:28 PM (6 days, 19 hours ago) |
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when you drive around, you have not been taken hostage, but all the people who need to access addresses that are blocked are being taken hostage.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Freedom]
#28630864 - 01/22/24 10:12 AM (6 days, 3 hours ago) |
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plan B
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Kickle]
#28630928 - 01/22/24 11:12 AM (6 days, 2 hours ago) |
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It's always nasty when we are bullied about in the shared domain by private use of public space.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Street protest [Re: Freedom]
#28631266 - 01/22/24 04:54 PM (5 days, 20 hours ago) |
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maybe they just haven't questioned their apparent entitled behavior.
(means the same thing)
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