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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



Registered: 09/01/17
Posts: 62
Last seen: 6 days, 13 hours
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: Stromrider] 1
#28550757 - 11/20/23 07:43 PM (2 months, 6 days ago) |
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Yeah I mean I don't agree with the temps... but they aren't the only people doing atmospheric steam sterilization. My spawn is doing great by the way lol. I just used a bunch of it today, here's what's left that's finished. Got plenty of half way done and just inoculated spawn on top of this. Have fun repeatedly loading your PCs. My weekly run has been doing me really nicely for a while now.
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 1,499
Loc: USA
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Iโm having fun repeatedly loading my PCs ๐ข ๐
Why does the top of the grain spawn bag colonize so damn slow. That shit drives me crazy. Anything to do to get around that?
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



Registered: 09/01/17
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: SupaThaRipper]
#28551024 - 11/21/23 02:38 AM (2 months, 6 days ago) |
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Tbh I'm not sure but I'll honestly just shake it up amd use it anyways if it's had time to internally consolidate and the top isn't done. I've also wiped the uncolored grain off before using, that's what I used to do fearing contaminated but haven't noticed an issue just shaking em and using them if it's just a tiny bit on the top.
Edited by cornwallacediggler (11/21/23 07:59 PM)
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



Registered: 09/02/13
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Iโve turned the bags on their side to help(and it does) but I donโt have the room all the time for all that lol
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Stromrider
This must be the place



Registered: 06/02/13
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: SupaThaRipper]
#28551581 - 11/21/23 01:28 PM (2 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
SupaThaRipper said: Iโm having fun repeatedly loading my PCs ๐ข ๐
Why does the top of the grain spawn bag colonize so damn slow. That shit drives me crazy. Anything to do to get around that?
That's from the grains on top drying out. If you get your grain more thoroughly hydrated it will help. It also helps to wait until the bag is about 50 to 60 percent colonized then shake.
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SupaThaRipper
Genetics Hoarder



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 1,499
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: Stromrider]
#28551784 - 11/21/23 04:11 PM (2 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said:
That's from the grains on top drying out. If you get your grain more thoroughly hydrated it will help. It also helps to wait until the bag is about 50 to 60 percent colonized then shake.
Thank you! Iโm thinking I should boil it a little longer then and wait a little longer to shake too
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



Registered: 09/01/17
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: Stromrider]
#28552042 - 11/21/23 08:00 PM (2 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stromrider said:
Quote:
SupaThaRipper said: Iโm having fun repeatedly loading my PCs ๐ข ๐
Why does the top of the grain spawn bag colonize so damn slow. That shit drives me crazy. Anything to do to get around that?
That's from the grains on top drying out. If you get your grain more thoroughly hydrated it will help. It also helps to wait until the bag is about 50 to 60 percent colonized then shake.
That's what my suspicion has been. I keep my spawn and fruiting bags in the same room amd I have fans going in there which is likely the culprit. I don't get it on most bags though.
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Markamello
Stranger


Registered: 04/13/20
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Impressive. I fucked around with atmospheric sterilising for almost 2 years. Tried a polly Barellan than forked out for stainless. I think the maximum I run it was 24 hours. It never worked for me. I could get bags colonised and looking contam free but would end up with a sea of green going tubbing to bulk substrate. I think I could have got the results if I fruited in bags but it was going to require to much atmospheric control with temp and humidity in a fruiting space.
Can you go to bulk substrate/coir with the barrel sterilised bags?
In the end I invested in 2 x AA75x and run pre sealed bags. A lot more work but things have stayed consistently good for me.
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: Markamello] 1
#28558847 - 11/27/23 08:30 PM (1 month, 30 days ago) |
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Oh you can totally do tubs with these atmospherically steamed bags, that's what I did for about 5 years. I only started bags like a year ago. I used to do 24hr cooks amd still had success. What I will say is that it's stillwprth it to pasteurize CVG substrate, I do. I see way less contams that way. Especially if you buy loose coco bricks in bulk that are un wrapped. There's still Hella mold spores on the surface of the bricks even of they don't grow on it and boiling water ain't gonna kill them all. I saw a huge difference in reduction of cantams when I switched over to doing that, I was having issues with mold before. I use wallpaper steamers pumped into big coolers with a wire shelving rack shelf inside to elevate the pillowcases full of sub from the pooling water. I steam them for 4hrs and let cool 20+ hrs. You need to dial your moisture content when prepping the coir doing this though, you need to use less water than a normal bucket tek because the steam adds moisture.
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deadmandave
Slime


Registered: 02/16/10
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you can super pasteurize coir as well. load coir and water in a bag, cook for 24 hours like you would masters mix. your good to inoculate once they are cool.
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



Registered: 09/01/17
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28578502 - 12/11/23 12:21 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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You don't need to do it for that long though. The barrels tale forever to heat so I prefer the 4hr wallpaper steamer tek. Using pillow cases this also allows the coir to get nicely steamed and increase moisture content. I've noticed big differences with different amounts of water used. There's definitely a sweet spot. Especially using bags to fruit in.
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deadmandave
Slime


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You can easily calculate the ideal moisture content. Ime it's 5:1 water:coir. Very repeatable in a steamer. Doesn't matter if it takes 6 hrs to reach temp imo, turn it on and don't think about it until it's time to unload.
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cornwallacediggler
atmospheric steam specialist



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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28587631 - 12/18/23 01:21 AM (1 month, 10 days ago) |
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I've done a lot of experimentation... if it's loaded into pillowcases then more moisture is introduced. Changing the ratio has yielded very different results, which I've tracked and noted. Trust me, when you've run over 1000 bags in the same room at the same time, using a variety of different moisture contents, temperatures, and steam times, you can see a difference. Even right now , I just bought a new pallet of coir bricks that preps differently then the last one we purchased elsewhere. The same weight of coir is yielding quite a bit more bags than before because this new stuff is more fluffy and fibrous and less ground up / dusty like the last batch. We've had to adjust our moisture content. Using the same as before yielded a much more dry substrate than we had before.
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
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Quote:
cornwallacediggler said: url=https://files.shroomery.org/files/23-47/053453447-20231120_183524.jpg] [/url]
some of those do look slightly bacterial. does anyone have a good link to one of those Chinese autoclaves?
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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MorePies
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#28599145 - 12/26/23 09:16 PM (1 month, 1 day ago) |
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As I understand it and have experienced ...
Molds and their spores are killed/neutralized at relatively low temperatures, 135-155f. Bacterial endospore can survive much higher temperatures and are MOSTLY neutralized via atmospheric steaming.
I would guess that the species you are growing runs over bacteria well and you end substrate has almost no nutrition in it. I mean, you could use hot tap water on coir and be OK. So, what works for you ends up being a time bomb for the less aggressive gourmet strains being grown on rich substrates.
For anyone trying to run and scale a business, 36 hour cooks are a huge cost in utilities and time for your equipment to be tied up. I can get 3 sterilization cycles through a 150L per work day. That said, it's your business and life, make of it what you will.
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: MorePies]
#28615414 - 01/09/24 03:32 PM (19 days, 1 hour ago) |
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Interesting convo. I did side by side comparisons of steamer vs presto 23, 4 lb bags of wbs... for months last year... because I was so skeptical. The steamer (a plastic barrel with a 1500 watt 120v element) worked great. 20 hours. My prestos have been collecting dust ever since. Then I made a steamer out of a cheap steel drum, and I started having contams. Then I realized the plastic barrel was more insulating. I upped my time to 25 hours and all is well again.
A few things I learned:
Small grains are better with the long run times.
I found if an element was ever turned off, the barrel would immediately suck in room air, which hinders heat conducting into the bags. So I never turn the element off. I make sure there is space around each bag, and keep them from touching the external wall. 25 4lb bags.
I have 12 gallons of water in the 55 drum. I have a copper condensing coil circling downward externally from the top, then re-introduce the condensed water into the drum. I lose little water.
RR once spoke of steamers somewhere here on the forum. He said that a raging steam is more powerful than a low simmering boil steam. With that sentiment, I installed a second element (1000watts) which I run for 7 hours along side the 1500watt at the beginning of the run. I get the top bags internal temp up to 211-212 in 4.5 hours that way.
I always pre-seal my bags.
Nursing my PC's was my least favorite part of this hobby. This steamer is kinda my favorite part now. I am of the belief that steaming like this barely sterilizes the grain. I'm a one flush and done guy, so if shit gets a little weird in the 2nd and 3rd flush, I don't really care, my sub shot its load on the first flush... its in the trash by then.
I will add that I discovered that fermented grains in my slow and lazy workflow (leaving wet grains in bags at 100f for hours) could completely stop colonization, even after sterilization (a known fact). So I work to keep those fermenting temps to a minimum. Cold soaked grains, loaded into a preheated and raging boiling steamer. They still are gross warm for a few hours... but I'm colonizing bags in 8 days with a wedge of agar... so things seem just good enough.
Now, if I could just find an off the shelf outlet timer with a 36hour setting that doesn't melt under the stress of a 1500watt element. I've melted three so far, that were rated for 1800watts. Now I just turn it off myself, in person. Good thing is the steamer will never run dry.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28615425 - 01/09/24 03:47 PM (19 days, 1 hour ago) |
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Quote:
For perspective, 16lbs of spawn (which can be cooked in one run of a 925 autoclave) can generate more than 100lbs of mushrooms.
So with cubes (all I know), four, 4lb bags of grain spawn... a bag in a mono would make 25 lbs of wet cubes? I gotta learn your secrets. Are there culinary shrooms that, when mixed with a ton of straw or something can yield that?
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
Edited by tedoro (01/09/24 03:48 PM)
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deadmandave
Slime


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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: tedoro]
#28615538 - 01/09/24 05:30 PM (18 days, 23 hours ago) |
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Cubes are so different. Cubes are growing in coir which has almost zero nutrients. It's a sponge and a place to expand but not much else. The grains give almost all the nutes.
Gourmets eat wood, the substrate is sawdust and soy hulls. It's highly nutritious. It contams more easily but also provides a shitload of resources for the fungi to produce mushrooms. Using supplements, spawn rates can be 1% and still achieve huge yield.
I like what you're doing but for everyone reading this be aware that steamed grains into a nutrient dense substrate is not the same as putting those grains in coir.
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28615670 - 01/09/24 07:49 PM (18 days, 21 hours ago) |
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I completely agree. I feel like I am barely making it work.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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Markamello
Stranger


Registered: 04/13/20
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Re: Large scale grain prep for grain spawn? [Re: deadmandave]
#28617173 - 01/11/24 04:32 AM (17 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Quote:
deadmandave said: I like what you're doing but for everyone reading this be aware that steamed grains into a nutrient dense substrate is not the same as putting those grains in coir.
Am I understanding correctly that steamed grains will not perform with cubes being put to coir?
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