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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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OctopusDisco's first grow log 1
#28576995 - 12/10/23 12:41 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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Hey, Shroomery This is my first post, and while I would love to say that I was a "long-time lurker", I've only been around for about a month and a half (what a great month and a half, though!).
To give you all a little background, I studied biology and chemistry a bit at uni, but I would say that I know enough to get me in trouble without being experienced enough to solve problems. However, I really enjoy learning through making mistakes when the stakes are low. I also enjoy gardening and long walks on the beach, and my favorite books are Man's Search for Meaning and Catch 22.
This project came about because I am currently suffering from poorness (symptoms began near the end of October) for which the short-term prognosis is not great. Because of this affliction, I needed a hobby that I could get into with low startup costs. I've always wanted to get into mycology, so I did extensive research read half an article online and realized I pretty much had the basic materials already! I had some mason jars, vermiculite, brown rice flour ('BRF'), a drill, and room-temperature vulcanizing ('RTV') silicone, so I obtained some GT spores and .25um filter stickers and began my journey.
I'm really excited to be a part of this community, and I will do my best to contribute as much as I can. I'll provide dates where applicable. Once I give an overview of where I'm at, I'll point out where I went wrong. Also, I potentially have a contamination concern in jar 3 that I would appreciate some guidance on. Let's dive in and get caught up!
Substrate and jar preparation
Materials
- 4 pint-sized mason jars
- .25um filter stickers
- Coarse vermiculite
- BRF
- RO drinking water
- Dutch oven for pasteurization (a big enamel pot, not "farting under the covers")
Procedure
- Drilled 3 holes in mason jar lids (~0.25in)
- Placed filter stickers over 2 holes on the bottom of each lid for gas exchange ('GE')
- Covered 1 hole with RTV silicone (for injection port)
- Wiped everything with 90% iso and turned upside down for evap process
- Mixed substrate (2 parts vermiculite:1 part brown rice flour:1 part water)
- Loosely filled jars with substrate (basically spooned the mix in and did not tamp at all) until about 0.5in from top of jar
- Added vermiculite until full
- Screwed on the jar lids normally (as opposed to flipping the lid)
- Covered the top with aluminum foil
- Placed mason jars in dutch oven directly on the bottom
- Filled dutch oven with water until it reached halfway up the jars
- Brought water to boil
- Reduced heat to simmer (could still hear jars rattling the whole time)
- Kept on heat for ~2 hours
- Turned off heat and left jars in dutch oven until temperature of water reached room temp
Inoculation (11/14)
Materials
- 4 pint-sized mason jars filled with hopefully pasteurized BRF cakes
- GT spore syringe
Procedure
- Done in room with windows closed and workspace wiped with 90% iso
- Distributed spores in syringe by shaking
- Wiped top of injection port with 90% iso
- Flame sterilized syringe until glowing
- Cooled syringe by squirting 1-2 drops out
- Injected one ~2.5cc sample into middle of each cake (as opposed to multiple samples around the sides of the jar)
Incubation (began 11/14)
Materials
- 4 pint-sized mason jars filled with pasteurized BRF cakes and inoculated with GT spores
Procedure
- At first, I had them in a closet, but then I realized that the temps were too cool (~60-65F)
- On 11/28, I moved the jars to small carboard box placed on top of a heating pad with a buffer in-between (soft, thick laptop case). I have been recording air temps in the box and they stay from 77-80F.
Colonization (first growth observed on 11/29 in jar 2)
Any weird colors you see are most likely due to lighting in combination with something left behind from the aluminum foil during pasteurization (kind of like a rainbow/green sheen). There are also some sections around the top of some jars that look grey, but this is the impact of the vermiculite and mycelium creating shaded regions.
Jar 1
- First growth observed on 12/02
- Mycelium growth looks white and healthy, mainly appears to be rhizomorphic
      
Jar 2
- First growth observed on 11/29
- Mycelium growth looks white and healthy, mainly appears to be rhizomorphic.
      
Jar 3
- First growth observed on 12/03
- This jar has had a rough time.
- The substrate/BRF cake has appeared darker than the others for quite some time.
- This jar was also the slowest to show growth.
- After the mycelium growth began in earnest, the substrate started pulling away from the sides of the jar. On 12/5, I noticed a horizontal separation or crack about halfway down the jar, basically resulting in a broken cake. On 12/6, I observed the mycelium growth slowing and becoming denser near the edge of the separation.
- Since then, I have observed growth, but it is very dense and proceeding slower than the other jars. I do not observe any odd colors.
- Parts of the vermiculite protective layer have fallen down the sides due to user error and overhandling. I observe growth from the vermiculite that has fallen (looks like white filamentous growth)
Growth as of 12/6
     
Growth as of 12/10
               
Jar 4
- First growth observed on 12/01
- Mycelium growth looks white and healthy, mainly appears to be rhizomorphic. Observing some areas of denser growth.
   
Mistakes and lessons learned
I've definitely made a lot of mistakes, and I'm aware of a couple. The biggest lesson or guiding principle that I've gathered so far from this forum and other resources is that growing mushrooms is really simple: it's a war against contamination, and battles are won by knowing where the fail points are. It's about creating conditions where good mycelium can flourish before anything else can. On a long enough timeline, the contamination rate goes to 100%. Here are a couple of mistakes I made, along with my conclusion of why I think they are mistakes. Please correct me where I am wrong so I can better understand
Jar is too large
- Mistake: I had pint-sized mason jars to work with, so that's what I used
- Lessons: Big jars take longer to colonize, and thus give other things time to grow before the mycelium can colonize and consolidate. This is not ideal.
Mycelium growth causes the BRF cake to shrink at a relative rate (i.e. ~5% of volume). For larger jars, this implies that the absolute size shrinkage (i.e. ~5mm) is larger than in small jars. Larger spaces around the outside of the jar increase the probability that a piece of vermiculite in the protective layer falling down the side (larger space means vermiculite can actually fit down the side of the jar.
- Solution: Use more, smaller jars.
Poor lid engineering
- Mistake: I drilled two 0.25in holes for gas exchange, and only one hole in the center for an injection port
- Lessons: The gas exchange holes might be too much and could be causing the substrate to dry out during colonization. Only one injection port in the center introduces inefficiencies. Four holes around the perimeter of the lid would allow for multiple inoculation points at the spatial extremes that speed up colonization time.
- Solution: Make a lid with four holes around the perimeter that serve as inoculation points as well as provide sufficient gas exchange.
Overhandling of jars
- Mistake: I'm an excited newbie and like to inspect the jars thoroughly and frequently
- Lessons: I'm fairly certain that the separation in jar 3 is due to a combination of mycelium contracting the substrate on the top and overhandling.
- Solution: I know myself and I will always want to observe, so the best solution is to sacrifice a sample to curiosity and have a jar that is designated for excessive handling, while the others are left alone.
What's going on with jar 3?
I provided some details along with some pictures above and I'm curious to hear your thoughts! Here are some of my hypotheses:
- There is nothing contaminated. I'm an idiot and over-handled the jar and caused the cake to separate in the middle, thereby stalling growth and causing the dense white mycelium to form. This jar also might just be exhibiting more tomentose growth compared to the other rhizomorphic jars. I should just leave it alone and it will be fine.
- The jar is contaminated. Over the next couple of days, I will likely begin to see other signs like coloration.
At the moment, I'm kind of in "wait and see" mode. I don't think any harm can come from observing the growth in the jar, but please let me know if I am risking anything by not disposing of it immediately.
Thank you for reading this! Please let me know if I can provide any other photos or detail.
Looking forward to making more mistakes and growing 
Edit 23/12/10: Added another mistake and organized photos in the post to make it take up less vertical space
Edited by OctopusDisco (01/11/24 04:35 PM)
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HappinessStan
Fungivore



Registered: 10/10/12
Posts: 1,612
Loc: Worcester, UK
Last seen: 3 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28577032 - 12/10/23 01:04 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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Just a bit of advice, that is an awful lot of text and photos to read. Most people here won't bother to read or respond to much of that. That being said, it's good to log your progress. Watch your jars, be patient, and check to see if you think any have stalled. You're already doing it right by tracking progress with a marker. Good luck, keep us posted but, please do try to keep your posts shorter and more concise, you will get better feedback, i promise you. Edit: I don't see any visible signs of severe contamination except in that one jar you marked, that defo looks off, time will tell.
Edited by HappinessStan (12/10/23 01:06 PM)
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: HappinessStan]
#28577042 - 12/10/23 01:12 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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Thank you for jumping in, HS! Totally understand that long posts are no bueno and will keep them short in the future as there will be less to cover. I'm aiming to provide short and frequent updates, most likely once every other day.
I greatly appreciate the advice, both related to forum etiquette and mycology, so please keep it coming!
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Way
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: HappinessStan]
#28577068 - 12/10/23 01:30 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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I'm not most people though, so.... some of my thoughts.
Your lid setup for PF tek is odd. Most people just don't use filters and only use a verm layer. The filter stickers are redundant and prevent you from inoculating in all 4 holes. The verm layer is the filter. Inoculating in all 4 holes would allow you to more evenly get germination in the jars and usually leads to quicker colonization due to more inoculation points. Plus you get to see the start of germination.
You also went with 3 1/4 holes which is too much gas exchange. For reference, most people use a single 1/4 inch hole on full sized quart grain jars. You may end up with your mixture drying out and colonization stalling because of that.
As you already mentioned your jars are too big, and not only can that cause slow colonization, it can actually cause stalling too. As the mycelium gets closer to the bottom of the jar it gets harder and harder for it to breathe and spread easier. That's why BRF works best in smaller and more shallow jars. Even normal sized half pint jars can be too tall. Suffice to say if it stops colonizing at like 80%, that could be the reason.
A lot of guides say not to compact the substrate at all. What I read that as was just scoop in and don't press down or allow any voids to fill. That's not quite right. I had more success when I started lightly pressing the BRF into the jar just so there wasn't any small gaps where substrate could shift around. Those small gaps can lead to the situation in jar #3. You also don't want to compact it down to where it clumps up and doesn't allow air to travel through it though.
Speaking of jar #3, just treat it like a normal jar until it either stops colonizing completely or molds over. It's possible something is in there with the mycelium, but just let it play out. If it colonizes completely and isn't covered in mold, you are safe to fruit it with the rest of the jars. I don't think contamination caused the crack though, I think that was bad jar prep and handling.
I like your attention to detail. Don't skimp on using a SAB though and make one yesterday would be my recommendation. You probably got away with it this time but it is a huge contam risk not using one.
Good luck!
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That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: Way]
#28577597 - 12/10/23 06:48 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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Way, thank you so much for the detailed response! All your answers make a ton of sense and I wish I had this post when I first started a few weeks ago. You do a good job explaining the "why" behind these things.
I truly appreciate that you are not most people, and I thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge
Quote:
Way said: Your lid setup for PF tek is odd. Most people just don't use filters and only use a verm layer. The filter stickers are redundant and prevent you from inoculating in all 4 holes. The verm layer is the filter. Inoculating in all 4 holes would allow you to more evenly get germination in the jars and usually leads to quicker colonization due to more inoculation points. Plus you get to see the start of germination.
Definitely agree that the lids are a major mistake. The lids were pretty much the first thing I made, and I've learned a lot since making them. I saw some pre-fabricated lids with a single injection port and a single PTFE syringe filter and I thought that two holes for gas exchange would be better than one.
The PF Tek guide I was following (before I found this forum) didn't mention multiple inoculation points, so it wasn't even on my radar. I see the importance now for all the reasons you listed. Here's the top view of the lid.

Quote:
Way said: Don't skimp on using a SAB though and make one yesterday would be my recommendation.
Most definitely, making a sterile air box ('SAB') is top of the priority list and I should be able to build one next weekend.
My plan is to spawn each of these to its own shoebox using 100% coco coir bulk substrate. I'll make a post with more detail to get input before spawning!
Thank you again for taking the time to read and respond Fingers crossed that jar 3 was just a victim of me being clumsy!
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28582348 - 12/14/23 08:45 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Happy day, Shroomery
Here's a little picture update, followed by a question about options for a partially colonized BRF jar. I have not observed any signs of potential contamination apart from those already mentioned in jar 3, which has not exhibited additional or worsening symptoms.
Jars are rotated 90 degrees between pictures. The sharpie line represents growth on 12/10, ~60 hrs before these pictures were taken. Some pictures may exhibit interesting colors or some grey near the top of the jars. This is a result of aluminum foil "residue" from the pasteurization process and shadowing, respectively.
Photo Update
Jar 1
   
Jar 2
   
Jar 3
- I have not observed any coloration, apart from the BRF/verm mix appearing darker than the other jars. My leading hypothesis is that I pissed it off by mishandling it, resulting in stalled growth. I included a close-up photo of the new, less dense growth, which appears to be healthy tomentose mycelium. I'm not the expert in the room, so I'd appreciate your thoughts.
    
Jar 4
   
Question about options for Jar 3
Apart from possibly being contaminated, it is clear that the growth in jar 3 is falling behind the other jars. I will be spawning the other jars into shoeboxes when they are ready (1:1 100% coco with 1 part coco casing on top; let me know if you would suggest otherwise), but I feel that when that happens, jar 3 will only be partially colonized. Seeing as this is my first grow and 3 jars look fine, I don't mind experimenting with jar 3. Below are the two options that I am considering.
- Birth the partially colonized cake in jar 3 at the same time as the other jars, but spawn into a different sized container that will result in a ~3in layer of spawn/bulk/casing using the same ratios as above (basically spawn into a smaller box using the same process as the other jars).
- Wait until the cake in jar 3 is fully colonized and spawn to a regular-sized shoebox.
Curious to hear what you all think!
Edited by OctopusDisco (12/14/23 09:03 AM)
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meta_mmxxii

Registered: 08/03/23
Posts: 598
Loc: PNW
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28582363 - 12/14/23 09:03 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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I just wanted to post to this convo, that I love your member name! I can so picture an octopus disco in my head. Thanks for the awesome visual.
-------------------- Lots of up-to-date Teks: Trusted Cultivators Teks The most comprehensive explanation of things I have read on the forums: Ultimate Tek Compendium Another very good read for new members: The Hitchhikers Guide 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: meta_mmxxii]
#28582399 - 12/14/23 09:41 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Thanks, meta! Came up with it as an homage to pistils dancing in the wind of my indoor garden
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meta_mmxxii

Registered: 08/03/23
Posts: 598
Loc: PNW
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28582407 - 12/14/23 09:49 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Welcome to the Shroomery as well!
-------------------- Lots of up-to-date Teks: Trusted Cultivators Teks The most comprehensive explanation of things I have read on the forums: Ultimate Tek Compendium Another very good read for new members: The Hitchhikers Guide 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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Way
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: meta_mmxxii]
#28582440 - 12/14/23 10:14 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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I'd suggest a 1:2 ratio for your future shoeboxes if, just to increase how thick the substrate is which will help it stay humid and keep surface conditions for longer.
If or when jar 3 finishes I would not recommend spawning to a shoebox by itself. It's not enough spawn imo. I'd recommend a smaller tub, a Ziploc, or even just fruiting it in the jar.
I spawn single cakes into 2.5qt tubs that I have and they work okay. A ziploc would do just as well and be easier though I would imagine.
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That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: Way]
#28582463 - 12/14/23 10:46 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
meta_mmxxii said: Welcome to the Shroomery as well!
Thank you! Pumped to be a part of such a rad community.
Hello again, Way
Quote:
Way said: I'd suggest a 1:2 ratio for your future shoeboxes
Awesome, thank you! This is the tek I had planned to follow, please let me know if this is outdated: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662
Quote:
Way said: I spawn single cakes into 2.5qt tubs that I have and they work okay. A ziploc would do just as well and be easier though I would imagine.
This is perfect, thank you so much! When the time comes, I'll post some more detail about what I plan to do.
Thank you for your guidance, Way!
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Janus62
Call me Hugh



Registered: 08/27/22
Posts: 365
Loc: Midlands UK
Last seen: 3 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28582480 - 12/14/23 11:08 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Welcome to Shroomery OD.
I enjoyed reading your posts and your insights into where you went wrong. Despite the hiccups, you're doing well.
Regarding the part colonised cakes, I had to use that size jar as I couldn't find any smaller ones. I too had some stall on me, but I birthed them, sliced off all the uncolonised material (it left some looking like truncated cylinders), dunked for 24 hours, then grated into shoeboxes at a 1:2.5 ratio with coir at field capacity.
I kept the lid latched until almost the end,then unlatched it and left it skew as the surface conditions were too wet and I was getting fuzzy feet.
I ended up with more shrooms than I could use in months, and totally addicted to the hobby.
-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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Way
The


Registered: 01/14/23
Posts: 4,336
Loc: A long way away
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: Janus62]
#28582495 - 12/14/23 11:27 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Yeah that tek was what I followed when i started with brf to bulk. It worked pretty good for me but
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That's the way she goes, boys. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't, cause that's the fuckin way she goes.
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: Janus62]
#28589991 - 12/19/23 03:17 PM (1 month, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Janus62 said: Welcome to Shroomery OD.
I enjoyed reading your posts and your insights into where you went wrong. Despite the hiccups, you're doing well.
Thank you so much, Janus I love the community here! Hiccups are half the fun; I feel like I understand things better by making mistakes myself and learning how to solve them.
I have an update and a couple of questions for you all! I'll start with the picture update, followed by some questions:
UpdatesI built my SAB, got access to an instant pot, was given a sleeve of petri dishes (90mm), found some extra agar powder, and have some leftover water from boiling farro last night for some mock fried rice. In short, I have everything I need to make some agar nutrient plates and will take some pictures tomorrow to document the process Jar 1This one is looking great, at least in my naive opinion Jar 2Beginning to see the same symptoms that I observed in Jar 3. Notice the dark area that the mycelium is beginning to grow around. Jar 3This jar is not happy. Jar 4This jar is so happy it's starting to present itself (I think). I see there is a bit of bruising near the verm layer on top, I'm guessing because it's dry up there. I also see what looks to be fruits developing, which I'm not sure how to feel about. Questions to follow.   QuestionsJar 2I'm fairly certain this one is contaminated. Question: Is it better to ride it out, or to birth and remove the contaminated parts? From my experience with the jar 3, I do not have great confidence that the areas in question will colonize. Jar 3After some time and observation, I'm pretty sure this one is contaminated. The BRF/verm mix is MUCH darker than the others and is looking more and more slimy as time progresses. Question: Any idea what contamination this might be? I'm guessing something bacterial, but all I could come up with in searches is "slime mold", which isn't very insightful. Question: Is there anything wrong with birthing this jar now and proceeding as Janus mentioned? This assumes that the mycelium looks and smells healthy after removing the questionable parts. Quote:
Janus62 said: Regarding the part colonised cakes, I had to use that size jar as I couldn't find any smaller ones. I too had some stall on me, but I birthed them, sliced off all the uncolonised material (it left some looking like truncated cylinders), dunked for 24 hours, then grated into shoeboxes...
Jar 4 This one doesn't have any contaminations that I can see, but it does have what appears to be small pins/fruits. The mycelium is just about to finish colonizing the jar (I'd say probably 36hrs from full colonization, >7 days until consolidation).
Question: Do I birth it now and do the things to put it in a shoebox, or do I let it ride until it's fully consolidated?
Spawn to coco ratio
I was going to follow a shoebox tek (Way-approved ), but I would like to know more about spawn to coco ratios before proceeding
I've heard everything from 1:1 to 1:2.5 spawn to coco, and I'm curious what the approach should be. I have a couple different sized containers that I'll end up using, so I want to be sure that I understand what's going on, as opposed to just following a recipe.
Coco doesn't have any nutrition, so I'm assuming that the main purpose of the coco is to maintain proper hydration levels and to allow for sufficient FAE in the substrate, helping to create optimal surface conditions (in combination with other things).
I guess my main question would be, what would be the impact of using a small amount of coco vs a large amount of coco? 'm sure there are tons of other variables, but let's keep those consistent.
For example, what would be the difference between the two boxes, in terms of things like fruit size, number of flushes, cluster density, canopy coverage, etc.?
Box A: 1:0.25 spawn to coco, filled to a 3 inch layer, then 1 inch casing Box A: 1:5 spawn to coco, filled to a 3 inch layer, then 1 inch casing
Thank you so much to everyone who is tuning in! I know I said I would keep posts short, but that's just not my style, apparently. I guess I'm not into the whole brevity thing, but so it goes. As a positive, the self-selection of those who read and respond might help to keep quality high
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OctopusDisco
Quabity Assuance


Registered: 12/10/23
Posts: 51
Loc: In a bear hole
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log (GT spores -> BRF/verm cake -> shoebox): learning from mistakes [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28594501 - 12/22/23 08:32 PM (1 month, 5 days ago) |
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Happy Friday, everyone!
A lot has happened since my last post! I built an SAB, poured some agar plates, and ended up birthing 2 jars that appeared to be contaminated and were beginning to fruit. I was bummed that I had to birth 2 jars early, at first, but now I'm actually excited since I get a practice run before the healthy jars are ready.
Would love any and all input
Updates
SAB work
Built a fairly basic SAB, found some wiry shit at the dollar store, and set up my box as seen below.
Here's what I did: Agar plates: I made a dinner with farro, saved the water that I used to boil the grains in, then reduced the grain water to a reasonable volume. After doing some reading about agar recipes, I went with 2% nutrient and 2% agar for the plates. To estimate the amount of nutrients in the grain water solution, I weighed a shot glass (75g) and the shot glass with the grain water in it (95g), put it into the oven at 200 and left it in there for about 16 hours, then weighed the shot glass with solids (75.8g). Do some maths on the back of a napkin and it comes out to ~4% solids. I added the appropriate amount of agar to the solution, boiled, then poured into a mason jar and filled with water until I had the volume I needed.
I couldn't find an appropriate vessel to pour the agar, as everything I had was either too large or didn't seem like it would pour very well. I ended up using a mason jar, a silicone fermenting lid, and some silicone tubing to create a siphon (seen in the picture). Before putting into my SAB, I put everything together, wrapped in tin foil, and pc'ed in an instant pot for 50 minutes after venting for 15. I figured the pc'ing would create some pressure and force the agar out (even though the silicone lid does not create an airtight seal), so I put a cap in the end of the silicone tube. Good thing I did, because the agar nutrient solution had filled the tube after pc'ing.
All I needed to do was pinch the tube, pull out the cap, and pour the plates while only needing to open them a crack. The solution was definitely still too warm and I got condensation in some of the plates. Not terrible, but something to improve upon.
I know this is not an optimal approach. I don't care at this point. Even if it doesn't work, I'll still learn something, which is what I'm really after 
I cloned some lion's mane and oyster mushrooms onto the plates and the oyster is growing something (hopefully mycelium). I also dropped some leftovers from a MSS onto a plate. I'll take some pictures when there's something interesting!

Jar 1
Just reached 100% colonization! Everything is looking good, so I'm going to wait 7 days for consolidation before doing my thing with the cake. There's a bit of pinning starting, but I think it'll be fine.

Jar 2
This jar ended up showing similar symptoms of contamination observed in Jar 3 (darkening of substrate along with stalled mycelium growth). I birthed this jar about 36 hours ago and it smelled a bit funky--kind of like dirty socks--but very earthy too. I cut off the portion that I was concerned with and got some margins around it (not sure if that matters), then spawned it into a container that has a bit smaller footprint than a shoebox.
   
Jar 3 This jar was forked. I birthed it the same time as Jar 2 and followed the same procedure that I'll detail below. I didn't have that much spawn from this jar, but I split it into a micro (square bottom container) and a mini 
   
Jar 4
Humming along, but getting a little frisky with the pins. I think I'll just leave it and birth Jar 1 and this one together.

Spawn to bulk procedure
1 Birthed the cake,
2Cut off the potentially contaminated areas that were kind of squishy and gross,
3Rinsed off with cool tap water
4Submerged/dunked in cool tap water for 12 hours
5Grated with small holes of cheese grater
6Mixed 1 part spawn to ~2.5 parts coco.
- Coco was hydrated to close to field capacity (had to squeeze very hard for ~5 seconds before I saw liquid) and pc'ed for a time (not necessary, but can't hurt either) before letting cool to room temperature and mixing.
- Mixing was done with gloves on in the kitchen.
7Tamped down lightly around the edges, then leveled out the substrate.
8Put a bit more coco on top as a casing, around 0.5 inches. I think it might be a bit too thin, but we'll see!
9Tamped down lightly around the edges, then leveled out the casing.
10Sprayed water over the top for ~5-15 seconds depending on the container. End result was a bit darker coco and some visible water beads on top, although not many. I feel the surface may be too wet and that is why the water is not staying on top. Basically, instead of the surface holding the water beads in suspension, the water content is high enough on the surface of the coco for cohesion to pay a role and the casing just sucks the water in. I'm going to let the surfaces dry out a bit--but not too much--before misting again and see if it makes a difference.
I would love to hear what you all think! I think some of the pictures look a little dry on the surface, but I also see some beads of water (just not a shit-ton).
Edit 23-12-23: Realized I didn't share my spawn to bulk process
Edited by OctopusDisco (12/23/23 01:01 PM)
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28611424 - 01/06/24 08:37 AM (21 days, 22 hours ago) |
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Happy Day 
A lot has happened since my last post! I'm amazed at how quickly things progress after not seeming to progress quickly for so long. After birthing, dunking, and spawning to bulk the 2 questionable jars, I haven't seen any signs of contamination or anything else concerning.
Last week, I made around 50 agar plates from sauce containers (0.5oz, way too small) and I've been practising my cloning, germination, and transfer technique. I haven't tried any streaking yet, that'll come after I take my first spore print
I don't have any pictures yet, but I also have some agar plates with samples I took from "pulverised" fruits that were not quite 100% dry and were pulsed in a coffee grinder, resulting in a coarse mixture. I took around 10 samples from different parts of the mixture:
- Some were taken from what looked to be stipes, slicing samples from the interior of the small piece to reduce contamination risk. These do not appear to be contaminated, and have not shown mycelium growth.
- Some were taken from what appeared to be caps, slicing a samples from the interior. These do not appear to be contaminated, and have not shown mycelium growth.
- A handful were simply larger pieces that I found in the mixture, with around 3 samples from caps and 3 from stipes. Although these have all shown contamination (pin/cobweb/bacteria), two exhibit what appears to be mycelium growth. Fingers crossed, but I'll post some photos once I can take some that aren't horrendous (going to go with a different container for agar plates next time).
Jar 3 This jar had some bacterial contamination--I'm thinking from some old sketchy vermiculite that I used in the BRF cake--and only ended up producing about 250ml of spawn. I didn't weigh it, but about half of the pint jar was clean-ish spawn. You can check out the post above, but I grated the cakes and mixed with coco for my bulk. Here are the resulting "micro" and "mini" containers 
Micro

Mini

As far as room for improvement goes, I think the biggest opportunities are centered around agar. I need to get a bottle that I can pour easily out of, and I need to figure out what to use for plates. I would love to use disposable petris, but my curiosity can be measured in agar plates right now, so I'd like to find something that has a very low unit cost. I found another brand of sauce container that is pp5, so I'll give those a try for the next go-around, probably using an old beer bottle to pour agar.
I'll post some more updates when I can get some better pictures!
Thanks, everyone
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28611881 - 01/06/24 03:44 PM (21 days, 15 hours ago) |
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I noticed this bluing/bruising around the caps of the smaller fruits. I'm guessing it's due to being too wet or too dry, not sure which though. Not super concerned since this container is basically a sacrifice to curiosity.
I'm guessing it's because I over-misted, curious what you all think.

Also:
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LadysKnight
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28612079 - 01/06/24 06:21 PM (21 days, 13 hours ago) |
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The dark coir color and lack of colonized surface with fruits sings too wet, which is odd for such a small vessel.
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: LadysKnight]
#28612350 - 01/06/24 09:07 PM (21 days, 10 hours ago) |
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Quote:
LadysKnight said: The dark coir color and lack of colonized surface with fruits sings too wet, which is odd for such a small vessel.
I figured it would dry out quickly--being so small and all--so I may have been a little heavy-handed with the misting. Those are technically my first fruits, not including the in vitro pins that formed!
I think the micro container served its purpose in the sense that my idle fingers were focused on the container with the least to lose. My expectations were pretty low regarding yield, especially when considering the amount of substrate. To be fair, I don't think I made any terrible mistakes, but I know a little bit more about how to handle the mini containers from observing the micro container.
Quick update on the "cloning a dried mushroom" project: healthy mycelium growth is now visible on 3 plates! I can't for the life of me remember what the fruits looked like before I put them in the coffee grinder, so it'll be a cool little surprise if I'm able to eventually get some clean cultures.
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syri
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28612355 - 01/06/24 09:10 PM (21 days, 10 hours ago) |
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:watching:
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LadysKnight
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28612703 - 01/07/24 07:32 AM (21 days, 2 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
OctopusDisco said:
Quote:
LadysKnight said: The dark coir color and lack of colonized surface with fruits sings too wet, which is odd for such a small vessel.
I figured it would dry out quickly--being so small and all--so I may have been a little heavy-handed with the misting. Those are technically my first fruits, not including the in vitro pins that formed!
I think the micro container served its purpose in the sense that my idle fingers were focused on the container with the least to lose. My expectations were pretty low regarding yield, especially when considering the amount of substrate. To be fair, I don't think I made any terrible mistakes, but I know a little bit more about how to handle the mini containers from observing the micro container.
Quick update on the "cloning a dried mushroom" project: healthy mycelium growth is now visible on 3 plates! I can't for the life of me remember what the fruits looked like before I put them in the coffee grinder, so it'll be a cool little surprise if I'm able to eventually get some clean cultures.
Congratulations on first fruits, you're winning!
Not sure where the coffee grinder fits in, but cloning from dry is no cakewalk. Well done.
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: LadysKnight]
#28613331 - 01/07/24 06:39 PM (20 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Here's the first "flush" of the micro container! Didn't even register 0.1g on the scale, but what it lacks in size it makes up for in cuteness 

In other news, I birthed, dunked, grated, and spawned the other jars about a week ago. I wanted to see what impact substrate depth has on the fruits, so for each jar I disproportionately distributed the spawn/coco mix to two small containers. I have some painters tape to keep track of which jar spawned what container. The first number of the serial number is the jar, followed by container id, followed by spawn date.

Unfortunately, the containers from jar 4 appear to have some sort of growth that I haven't seen outside of my contaminated plates. To my inexperienced eye, it appears too "stringy" to be cube myc, and looks more like the pin mold that I've seen on some of my plates.
I'm thinking the course of action will be to keep an eye on it. If I confirm a pin mold contamination, I'll just toss the container. I figure if its somewhere, it's likely present everywhere.
Let me know if you suggest otherwise! I already have more that I could ever use in a lifetime with my first harvest , but I wouldn't mind taking steps to save the container if possible

Edit 24/1/7: Forgot to add some photos
Edited by OctopusDisco (01/08/24 12:37 PM)
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: LadysKnight]
#28613344 - 01/07/24 06:53 PM (20 days, 12 hours ago) |
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Quote:
LadysKnight said: Congratulations on first fruits, you're winning!
Not sure where the coffee grinder fits in, but cloning from dry is no cakewalk. Well done.
Thank you! Just having a lot of fun lol.
I used a coffee grinder to grind up the dried fruits. It didn't get to a powder-like texture, but still contained some chunks that I was able to cut in half to take samples from.
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28614097 - 01/08/24 01:10 PM (19 days, 18 hours ago) |
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First real flush is dried! 37g wet, around 2g dry lol (I would estimate the amount of spawn to be around 100-150 ml of colonized BRF/verm cake that was grated and then mixed 1:2 with coco at/a bit under field capacity). There was still a bit of substrate attached to the fruits when I weighed them wet, so it makes sense that dry mass was <10% of the wet mass. Still have a lot of learning to do with respect to harvesting, good thing I should have plenty of practice soon!

Also, I didn't like the way this.... thing was looking at me, so I sprayed it with some H2O2. I took a look at this thread that has pictures of what it shouldn't look like and the growth seems a lot like dactylium. Even if it isn't dactylium, it still looks very different from all the other mycelium I've seen. The thing that has me worried the most isn't necessarily the string-like growth, it's the length to which the strings are growing without branching at all, almost like spider silk threads.

Anyway, the H2O2 deed is done. I figured I'd rather try my hand at fighting a potential contamination than watching one take over a container.
The "cloning a dried fruit" project is going well. Unfortunately, I can't take any good pictures because the sauce containers I bought have lids that are difficult to see through. Disposable petris and 500ml media bottles are now priorities on the shopping list.
Thank you to everyone who shares knowledge on this site. I couldn't tell mycelium from my elbow about two months ago, and now I have much-needed medicine. Love you all
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28617018 - 01/10/24 11:16 PM (17 days, 8 hours ago) |
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Happy day, everyone!
Time for another update! First an overall update, then an update of the BRF cakes I spawned to bulk in mini-containers (smaller than a shoebox), then a PHOTO UPDATE of the "cloning a dried fruit" project (the photos aren't great though because I'm an idiot and bought bad sauce containers.
Overall update
I weighed everything I've harvested so far and it came out to 2.4g dry, giving me 24 1# capsules with ~0.1g each 
The overall plan is to let these containers flush out while cleaning up the cultures from the "clone a dried fruit" project and getting some grain ready.
I have access to a lot of different kinds of grain, but it seems like rye berries are standard operating procedure when available. Please correct me here if I'm wrong!!
The labelling convention in the pictures is the same as listed above: [jar #].[container #] [date spawned]. After these stop fruiting, I'm going to employ a new ID/serial system that will make it easier to track (at least for me).
BRF cakes to bulk
I'll provide a text update where appropriate, then just provide photo updates. Dactylium (or whatever the hell that thing was) is dead for now. I'll let you know if it returns.
A tiny spot on 1.1 started to turn green, so I cut it out and isolated the container from the rest.

2.1 has a weird spot that looks different from the rest of the mycelium. I think it's just condensation that dripped from the lid, but I'll keep an eye on it.

Everything else:

Cloning a dried fruit
To recap this project:
- I obtained some amount of mushies about 6 months ago and ate a certain amount, but not everything. These were very dry and may have been PE, but I am not confident in that whatsoever. ('fruits A')
- I obtained a different amount of different mushies about 4 months ago and ate a different amount, but not everything. These were kind of parbaked when it comes to drying, and I would describe them as having been "spongy". Besides that characteristic, I think they were more grey than brown. ('fruits B')
- I used an electric coffee grinder to grind these up and pack some capsules, and had some leftover that I put in a mason jar with some dry silica packets about 2 months ago.
- On 1/1, I took some culture samples in my SAB. I'm fairly confident that I got samples both fruits, because there were some very tough caps (fruits A) and some softer stipe matter (fruits B). I was able to get some samples from clean interiors of both, as well as some dirty-as-shit samples.
- The dirty-as-shit sampleswere basically just remnants of the pulverized fruits tossed in a janky sauce containers filled with nutrient agar. They all are contaminated.
- The samples from the clean interiors look to have healthy mycelium growth. I took T1s today and will post photos when there is something interesting
Here's a bunch of photos:
Apologies for having to endure the pictures of the shitty sauce containers. I am 100% ordering some petris to make cleaning cultures easier, but for the amount of grain I'm going to be using at a time (not more than 1/2 pint), I kind of like the smaller containers for agar to grain. I did a test with brown rice where I inoculated with "soft" vs "hard" agar. I won't be using brown rice in spawn that I care about, but I had some in the closet and got what I needed out of the test: soft agar is a clear winner when it comes to inoculation.
This is all to say that I willl be buying petris as well as some different sauce containers. I did some extensive searching through the Amazon and came across a review that sold me:

Not that I'll need to PC these, but it seems like that reviewer knows what I want to use these for, generally speaking.
That's all for now! I'll probably have another upate this weekend
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28618688 - 01/12/24 01:01 PM (15 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Happy day, Shromies
Quick update:
Contaminated container 1.1 (green spots)
I mentioned I observed a green spot in container 1.1 in my last post. I did some research on green contaminants and apparently once it's green, it's sporulating (read: "fucked"). Since we're just having fun here. I decided to try to fight the contaminant, cutting out the green portion and isolating the container from the others.
Looked today and I observed some more small green growth:

Seems like I have a handful of options:
1) Burn it all 2) Throw it outside, throw some debris on top, and see if anything happens 3) Fight it
Leaning toward option 1. I have other containers that look clean, so I don't need this one to fruit.
Option 2 sounds like a pretty low-lift effort, but given the amount of substrate and the potential for yield that it implies, any effort might be too much effort.
Option 3 doesn't sound appealing compared to the other options, but I'm open to trying something out if any of you have a strong conviction.
Cloning dried fruit
3 of the 10 plates looked to have some healthy mycelium growth (hoping it's not just mold, but we'll find out), and 1 of those 3 plates seemed more aggressive than the other 2. I took 4 transfers from each of the 3 plates on 240110--all of which are looking good, pictures coming with the next update.
The picture below is of the more aggressive culture and its growth through the openings in the agar that were the result of the transfers.

I'll probably have another update this weekend
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LadysKnight
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28618725 - 01/12/24 01:45 PM (15 days, 17 hours ago) |
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The clone is looking ok as far as I can see. Regarding the contaminated tubs, they all go out to the compost pile when I see mold. Sometimes they recover enough to fruit, sometimes not.
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: LadysKnight]
#28618759 - 01/12/24 02:18 PM (15 days, 17 hours ago) |
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Quote:
LadysKnight said: The clone is looking ok as far as I can see. Regarding the contaminated tubs, they all go out to the compost pile when I see mold. Sometimes they recover enough to fruit, sometimes not.
Thanks for checking in, LK! I'm relieved to hear you say that the clone culture looks ok. I just ordered some 60mm petris and they should arrive this weekend, so I'll be able to post some better pictures of these clone cultures in about a week or so. In the meantime, thank you for putting up with these difficult photos.
I have vermicompost going right now, so it looks like this sub is going to become worm food
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OctopusDisco
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Re: OctopusDisco's first grow log [Re: OctopusDisco]
#28628338 - 01/20/24 09:35 AM (7 days, 21 hours ago) |
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Happy day, everyone!
I feel like a lot has happened since the last post, so let's get caught up Overall, the strategy is to:
1) Fruit everything that is currently in bulk or grain (just started a few more grain jars, more detail below) 2) Pick 1 unique phenotype characteristic from each of the 3 genetic sources I have and selectively breed until the characteristic appears consistently from spore 3) Do some crosses using various methods
BRF Cakes to Bulk
I ended up tossing the container that had signs of mold. Figured the worms would get more utility out of it than I.
The sub that put out a first flush already put out a whopping 3 fruits on the second flush. It had some questionable spawn to begin with, so that one will be going to the worms as well!
There is some id info on painters tape. The first number represents the jar the spawn came from. The second number is the container id (not important at all). The date is the date spawned to bulk.
So pumped to see some fruits in the containers with larger subs! Hopefully these will be a bit larger than the fruits from the other sub. I think there's something going on with 2.1, but at least we're getting some fruits!

Cloning a Dried Fruit This project is going great! 3 of the samples ended up producing mycelium. I took some T1s a while back (2 to normal agar, 2 to soft agar) and let those grow out. While all 3 look clean, one of the cultures is different from anything I've seen yet, and the words that keep coming to mind are "vigorous" and "thicc" (with two "c's"). Within a couple of days, the mycelium had pretty much filled in the gas in the agar where I took the transfers. Trying to manage expectations, but I'm excited to see what kind of fruiting bodies this culture produces. I took a piece of this culture to water agar, and immediately it sent out a mycelium "rope" (12 o'clock in the picture), where the other two did not.

The other 2 cultures look great, but more similar to the Golden Teacher mycelium I've been working with.

After the cultures grew out on the soft agar, I tossed the best-looking plate of each into it's own jar of rye berries. I feel the rye is too dry, so I'll cook it longer next time.
These jars use a new serial id system to help me keep track of cultures (info linked in my signature). The single digits all by themselves have no meaning (I wasn't able to remove the permanent marker from the last run).
Unsurprisingly, the culture that was most vigorous on agar is most vigorous in the jars (2.1.240117)

Whole Brown Rice Grain Spawn
I think this is the first time I'm mentioning this project. I wanted to experiment with normal vs soft agar, so I put some spores to agar, transferred once to their respective hardness agar, then went agar to brown rice. I sincerely apologize for neglecting my duties and failing to document the process with photos. The learning here is that soft agar was much faster at colonizing the brown rice compared to the normal agar.
I'm also curious about how "fruitable surface area" to sub volume ratios will impact fruiting characteristics. This is in no way a scientific study; observation is an integral part of the scientific method, however. The purpose of this study is to:
1) Observe any differences in fruiting characteristics that can be used to motivate an actual experiment 2) Test the performance of these new deli containers and compare them to the containers that are fruiting currently (purple and blue lids).
The goal is to dial in a process that I can use to run scientific experiments with a decent sample size of around 60 subjects per experiment (30 test, 30 control). The deli containers would be great because it allows for a greater degree of control. I just need to make sure that the sub volume is enough to produce fruits that would be expected in larger monos.

Thanks for reading!
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OctopusDisco
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I have an update, but not as big of an update as I would like.
This isn't self-deprecating play on words about the harvest. I'm completely satisfied with the haul, it's just that I took a bunch of photos this morning of the containers I was going to harvest, as well as some agar work, but I didn't realize until I went to take the pictures below that there was no card in the camera I was too disheartened to take the agar photos again, but I'll take some more in a day or two.
Luckily, there will be plenty more photo opportunities!
BRF Cakes to Bulk
Harvested containers 1.2 and 2.1 (some photos of these in posts above), yielding about 7 and 6 grams, respectively. I'm definitely learning more and more with each flush. Regarding how much FAE to provide, I really like the containers I'm using. They have 4 latches, and when all 4 are engaged, there is a pretty airtight seal; the more latches that are disengaged, the more FAE is provided. I never had all 4 latches engaged at the same time.
I did a lot wrong with the first container that I harvested on 240108 (container 3.1). The main thing I did wrong was that I actually tried to do things to it after spawning. Granted, the cleanliness of the spawn was suspect, but I opened it a lot and misted it from like day 2. Comparing the progress of 3.1 to the two I just harvested (especially 1.2), this is now my mantra:

For container 1.2, I had three latches engaged AT ALL TIMES, never opening to fan, mist, take photos, peek in, breathe on, etc.
Once the mycelium popped through the top layer, surface conditions stayed real nice, knots formed, followed by pins. The most recent harvests had more well-defined clusters as opposed to an even pin set, but I don't think I can point to any reason why this is the case. Edit 240124: After pins were formed and fruiting was underway, I only kept two latches engaged. I disengaged all latches toward the end of the flush.
I'm still working on getting my harvesting technique dialed, but it, too, gets better with each harvest. I had originally planned to chop and stump, but instead I pulled out the clusters and tried to get as much of the substrate off as I could, then dried in an oven on low with the door open.
I ended up cloning the fruit from container 2.1 that is in the top-left corner, as it is the largest fruit I've gotten to-date (a whopping 4 grams wet).
Container 1.2 (7 grams dry)

Container 2.1 (6 grams dry)

I'll take some photos of everything else give an update soon!
Edited by OctopusDisco (01/24/24 11:50 AM)
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