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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology
#28575280 - 12/09/23 04:22 AM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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I'm exploring the 'Integrated Theory of Cognitive Adaptation and Evolution,' a comprehensive framework that merges principles from cognitive science and evolutionary biology. My aim is to thoroughly understand cognitive processes by integrating diverse insights from these fields. This theory addresses the complexity of cognitive phenomena, including their mechanisms, evolutionary roots, and adaptability across species.
Central to my focus within this theory is the Qualitative Integration Model, which emphasises a dual approach to task evaluation. This approach incorporates both quantitative aspects, like time and resources, and qualitative aspects, such as personal satisfaction and skill development. I believe this integration offers a fuller perspective on how cognitive processes are shaped by both measurable and experiential factors.
Further, I'm examining how the theory expands into evolutionary aspects, exploring cognitive development in response to environmental and selective pressures. It suggests that cognitive evolution is a dynamic process influenced by both internal and external factors. This approach acknowledges the role of environmental, social, and individual experiences in shaping cognitive abilities across species. In this context, the theory revisits and recontextualises the nature vs. nurture debate, suggesting a more complex interplay between inherited genetic factors and environmental influences in shaping cognitive evolution. This perspective highlights that cognitive traits and abilities are not solely predetermined by genetics (nature) but are also significantly influenced and shaped by environmental factors and experiences (nurture).
One of the key elements I find fascinating in the theory is its broadened interpretation of recursion, traditionally tied to linguistic and mathematical contexts. This reinterpretation includes more complex cognitive behaviours across various species. For instance, the bowerbird's behaviour is a prime example, where its recursive bower-building - involving strategic planning and modification for mate attraction - aligns with this expanded concept of recursion.
In my exploration of the 'Integrated Theory of Cognitive Adaptation and Evolution,' I've come to appreciate its extensive framework for understanding the rapid and complex nature of perceptual processes, influenced by constantly changing mental contents. This theory brings to light a critical distinction in perception: while all animals exhibit reflexive responses to immediate stimuli as fundamental cognitive processes, my focus within this theory delves deeper into the dynamic evolution of more complex cognitive strategies. I find it crucial to recognise how rapid, moment-to-moment perceptions accumulate and integrate over time, significantly influencing behaviour and cognition. This theory enables me to clearly differentiate between immediate, reflexive reactions—rapid and instinctual—and the more elaborate, evolved cognitive processes that develop through experiences and environmental interactions. Through this approach, I can delineate the immediate aspects of perception from the evolved, strategic cognitive processes observed in various animal behaviours, illustrating the adaptability and complexity of cognitive evolution in the animal kingdom. By focusing on the development of these long-term cognitive strategies, I am exploring the complexity and adaptability of cognitive evolution, transitioning from immediate, instinctual responses to sophisticated cognitive strategies such as strategic planning and abstract reasoning.
The theory also emphasises epigenetic mechanisms, which involve changes in gene expression influenced by environmental factors, in shaping cognitive traits. This perspective underscores the dynamic and responsive nature of cognitive development, where traits are continually molded by environmental interactions, further supporting the intertwined relationship between nature and nurture.
Furthermore, I'm exploring the role of anticipation in motivation within this theory. It proposes that anticipating qualitative benefits, like personal growth or successful foraging, is a key motivator across species. It also suggests a spectrum of cognitive abilities, ranging from basic reflexes to advanced strategies, highlighting species-specific strategies for environmental adaptation.
As I explore the 'Integrated Theory of Cognitive Adaptation and Evolution,' I'm aware that this is just one perspective in the broader realms of cognitive science and evolutionary biology. This exploration is my own, and I welcome diverse viewpoints to enrich the discussion.
The Integrated Theory of Cognitive Adaptation and Evolution is a logical model focused on the progression and adaptation of cognitive processes, distinct from exploring neural correlates, much like how evolutionary theory addresses species development without delving into abiogenesis.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: sudly]
#28575295 - 12/09/23 04:51 AM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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epigenetic traits?
this seems murky to me, but you have been at this for quite some time.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28575303 - 12/09/23 04:58 AM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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Phenotype changes.
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The term "phenotype" refers to the observable physical properties of an organism; these include the organism's appearance, development, and behavior. An organism's phenotype is determined by its genotype, which is the set of genes the organism carries, as well as by environmental influences upon these genes.
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Epigenetic marks, including DNA methylation and Histone modifications, can be triggered by environmental effects, and lead to permanent changes in gene expression, affecting the phenotype of an organism.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: sudly]
#28575323 - 12/09/23 05:36 AM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: ...
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Epigenetic marks, including DNA methylation and Histone modifications, can be triggered by environmental effects, and lead to permanent changes in gene expression, affecting the phenotype of an organism.
i.e. these are random events that may influence one member's body, but not affect offspring, i.e. they are not inherited.
epigenetic effects are part of an individual's reality, but I doubt it is part of the part of reality you are trying to clarify with your theoretical view.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28575690 - 12/09/23 10:47 AM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
i.e. these are random events that may influence one member's body, but not affect offspring, i.e. they are not inherited.
why would you assume that?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: Freedom]
#28575776 - 12/09/23 12:25 PM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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Q. Is it inside the egg or sperm cell that this epgenius is happening.
Just think it through critically
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28575794 - 12/09/23 12:40 PM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
sudly said: ...
Quote:
Epigenetic marks, including DNA methylation and Histone modifications, can be triggered by environmental effects, and lead to permanent changes in gene expression, affecting the phenotype of an organism.
i.e. these are random events that may influence one member's body, but not affect offspring, i.e. they are not inherited.
epigenetic effects are part of an individual's reality, but I doubt it is part of the part of reality you are trying to clarify with your theoretical view.
As far as I'm aware they are.
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Increasing evidence indicates that non-DNA sequence-based epigenetic information can be inherited across several generations in organisms ranging from yeast to plants to humans. This raises the possibility of heritable 'epimutations' contributing to heritable phenotypic variation and thus to evolution.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-021-00438-5#:~:text=Abstract,variation%20and%20thus%20to%20evolution.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: sudly]
#28575803 - 12/09/23 12:48 PM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Quote:
sudly said: ...
Quote:
Epigenetic marks, including DNA methylation and Histone modifications, can be triggered by environmental effects, and lead to permanent changes in gene expression, affecting the phenotype of an organism.
i.e. these are random events that may influence one member's body, but not affect offspring, i.e. they are not inherited.
epigenetic effects are part of an individual's reality, but I doubt it is part of the part of reality you are trying to clarify with your theoretical view.
As far as I'm aware they are.
Quote:
Increasing evidence indicates that non-DNA sequence-based epigenetic information can be inherited across several generations in organisms ranging from yeast to plants to humans. This raises the possibility of heritable 'epimutations' contributing to heritable phenotypic variation and thus to evolution.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41576-021-00438-5#:~:text=Abstract,variation%20and%20thus%20to%20evolution.
if it does not reach the egg or the sperm then it does not reach the zygote and is not inherited.
some epigenetic intrauterine transfer is conceivable in utero from the mother only.
there is hardly any chance of anything non nuclear (DNA) in the sperm, and extremely low likelihood of epigenetic heritage via eggs. but the eggs do have a cytoplasmic component that can carry epigenetic content like mitochondria (which has its own DNA).
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28575815 - 12/09/23 01:00 PM (1 month, 19 days ago) |
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There's an extremely low likelihood of any positive evolution, like in Lenskis Ecoli experiment.
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After 31,500 generations, a mutant in one of the LTEE populations, designated Ara−3, evolved the ability to utilize citrate as a carbon source. Descendants of this mutant that were able to fully exploit this additional carbon source evolved by 33,000 generations and dominated thereafter.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5918244/#:~:text=After%2031%2C500%20generations%2C%20a%20mutant,and%20dominated%20thereafter%20%5B7%5D.
As long as it's plausible, I don't see the problem, even if it is only passed down by the female.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Posts: 5,850
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28575875 - 12/09/23 01:43 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: Q. Is it inside the egg or sperm cell that this epgenius is happening.
Just think it through critically
what about the embryo?
why assume i haven't thought it through critically?
Even if the sperm or egg had parent patterns transfered, the methylation patterns get reset durring embryogenesis anyway. Then there are multiple waves of methylation pattern changes. If there is transfer of methylation patterns, my bet is that it happens durring the remethylation waves
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: Freedom]
#28575927 - 12/09/23 02:27 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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if DNA is methyllated before embryo then the embryo has the mutation. if histone is methyllated before the embryo then that is usually discarded. if it is epigenetic material, it most likely is not in the sperm - the sperm has very little cytoplasm to contain any extra stuff, but it could be in the cytoplasm of the egg, and while that is very very rare and unlikely it could happen - note among all humans, there are very few varieties of mitochondria (which are all matrilineal). More likely a new sequence of DNA is involved in major evolutionary developments, and it can be either egg or sperm sourced.
I think that if you have something significant to say about something significant about behaviour and evolution, the least likely vector of inheritance is of lowest interest, so, that is why I suggest dropping the notion of epigenetic influences on behaviour. (I realize it is a trendy concept, and have even heard of considerations of generational impacts of intrauterine holocaust survivor transmission. Most likely that is imaginary, and related to nurture, especially as it fades in 2 generations back to baseline).
the first 2 words "Increasing evidence" of the link indicate that the amount of evidence so far is not quite compelling to convince the critical reader.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28575947 - 12/09/23 02:46 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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Whether there's inheritance of behavioural phenotypes, that's still just an underlying mechanism. I think the most effective transfer of cognitive strategies is still encompassed in a broader understanding of recursion, one that can be effectively transferred through every generation by social interaction and teaching. While I don't actually think epigenetics will make a significant difference in our phenotype, theoretically, it can. The epigenetic concepts are just further support for the underlying framework of the theory.
Its inclusion in this thoery serves to acknowledge the potential complexity and multifaceted nature of cognitive development and inheritance. It's important to consider that the theory aims to provide a comprehensive framework that accommodates various potential influences on cognitive evolution, including those that may currently seem less likely or are still being explored.
The primary focus of the theory remains on the broader aspects of cognitive evolution and adaptation, particularly how cognitive strategies are developed, transferred, and modified across generations through both genetic and environmental interactions. The emphasis on recursion, social interaction, and teaching as mechanisms for the transfer and evolution of cognitive strategies aligns with this focus, providing a more holistic view of cognitive development.
In essence, the inclusion of epigenetic mechanisms is not to overstate their role but to ensure that the theory remains inclusive and open to the evolving understanding of cognitive evolution. It's about creating a framework that is adaptable and responsive to new discoveries and insights in the field.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,850
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28575955 - 12/09/23 02:53 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: if DNA is methyllated before embryo then the embryo has the mutation. if histone is methyllated before the embryo then that is usually discarded. if it is epigenetic material, it most likely is not in the sperm - the sperm has very little cytoplasm to contain any extra stuff, but it could be in the cytoplasm of the egg, and while that is very very rare and unlikely it could happen - note among all humans, there are very few varieties of mitochondria (which are all matrilineal). More likely a new sequence of DNA is involved in major evolutionary developments, and it can be either egg or sperm sourced.
I think that if you have something significant to say about something significant about behaviour and evolution, the least likely vector of inheritance is of lowest interest, so, that is why I suggest dropping the notion of epigenetic influences on behaviour. (I realize it is a trendy concept, and have even heard of considerations of generational impacts of intrauterine holocaust survivor transmission. Most likely that is imaginary, and related to nurture, especially as it fades in 2 generations back to baseline).
the first 2 words "Increasing evidence" of the link indicate that the amount of evidence so far is not quite compelling to convince the critical reader.
I mean there may be an unknown mechanism where maternal methylation patterns are transfered durring embriogenesis and development.
The history of science is full of dogmas being overturned.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: Freedom]
#28575961 - 12/09/23 02:57 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
In essence, the inclusion of epigenetic mechanisms is not to overstate their role but to ensure that the theory remains inclusive and open to the evolving understanding of cognitive evolution. It's about creating a framework that is adaptable and responsive to new discoveries and insights in the field.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: sudly]
#28575980 - 12/09/23 03:19 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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we only need frameworks that work, or that frame the work that works which is not yet framed by some other scaffold, otherwise it is a bit like thinking up new names for your friends to call you.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28576003 - 12/09/23 03:33 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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I appreciate your emphasis on the practicality and functionality of theoretical frameworks. It's true that the most valuable theories are those that can frame and guide effective work, addressing gaps not covered by existing models. This theory is intended to be more than just a new name for existing concepts. Its aim is to provide a comprehensive scaffold that brings together various elements of cognitive science and evolutionary biology, some of which may not have been cohesively framed before.
This theory is designed to offer a structured way of understanding complex cognitive processes and their evolution, which can potentially guide future research and application.
While its practical impact might not be immediately evident, theories like this can lay the groundwork for new insights and approaches in the field. They can provide a foundation upon which functional and applicable research can be built, especially in areas that are still being explored and understood.
With that in mind, I'm particularly interested in hearing what aspects of this theory might not work or could be improved. Because, that's the thing – I'd like to hear what doesn't work. Feedback and critique are invaluable for refining and evolving theoretical models.
In essence, the purpose of this theory is to offer a new perspective, one that might help us frame and address questions in cognitive science and evolutionary biology that are not yet fully explored by existing models. It’s about enriching our collective toolkit with new ways of thinking and understanding, which can eventually lead to practical applications and solutions.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: sudly] 1
#28576890 - 12/10/23 11:22 AM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said:
Furthermore, I'm exploring the role of anticipation in motivation within this theory. It proposes that anticipating qualitative benefits, like personal growth or successful foraging, is a key motivator across species.
I've always been interested in how so many harmful human behaviors are motivated by what we view as beneficial. From getting drunk every day to killing your cheating partner, it appears so many (most?) of our behaviors are motivated by anticipated benefits. Hoarders and 600 lb. food bingers are stuck in a loop - sometimes acknowledging the only benefit of their behavioral choices is a brief momentary relief of the craving.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#28576922 - 12/10/23 11:50 AM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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Is it possible that all perceived benefits become subsumed into a fairy tale dream of a better place.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: redgreenvines]
#28576944 - 12/10/23 12:10 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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Where all my needs are met? Like it was in the womb . . .
~ ~ ~ just floating & bobbing ~ ~ ~
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: Merging Cognitive Science with Evolutionary Biology [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28576970 - 12/10/23 12:26 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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a placental abstraction of a place
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