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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: Jailbird420]
    #28590287 - 12/19/23 06:35 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

The states run the elections so I can only imagine that it will be left up to the states


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28590294 - 12/19/23 06:41 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Yeah, I'm guessing SCOTUS will still weigh in. They know who pays their bills, if the recent report about Clarence Thomas loudly complaining about debt back in 2000 within earshot of GOP senators leading to huge, uh, 'investments' has any merit.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: Kryptos]
    #28590298 - 12/19/23 06:43 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I bet they weigh in as well, but I also bet they decide they can't do much about it. However, this will rally the maga douches even harder.


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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28590302 - 12/19/23 06:46 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Maybe, but the constitution besides having what states do, also might need all parts of it to be recognized by all states to have the same meaning.  All those states rights supporters were more then happy to sue over what a different state did when trying to over turn the election and I doubt those same state right loving states let this slip by either.  Pretty sure their true beliefs, not stated ones, will show through again.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28590357 - 12/19/23 07:23 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Isn't voting for a president a federal issue or am I missing something? I get the States rights thing; just trying to see the other side.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28590366 - 12/19/23 07:27 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

He won't be allowed on the ballot for the primary in the state. The controversial part is whether he's eligible to be president since they have decided that he violated the insurrection clause. Pedal to the metal on the constitution, that's for sure. We could see a president that isn't recognized by a state.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: christopera] * 1
    #28590380 - 12/19/23 07:36 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

They'll have to recognize him if he wins but they don't have to put him on the ballot on a given state


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28590384 - 12/19/23 07:39 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

The ruling read;

Quote:

A majority of the court holds that Trump is disqualified from holding the office of president under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment




https://apnews.com/article/trump-insurrection-14th-amendment-2024-colorado-d16dd8f354eeaf450558378c65fd79a2


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: christopera]
    #28590394 - 12/19/23 07:44 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I understand but the state only has authority over the election process I'm that state, not the eventual outcome should be win without any votes there.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think I am


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: ballsalsa]
    #28590400 - 12/19/23 07:46 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Couldn't voters in appropriate states "write in" Trumps name.

-but- They (like CO)don't have to put him on the ballot, do they have to count this type of vote?

United States of America, right?


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28590405 - 12/19/23 07:48 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

That's a good question.  They probably would have to count write in votes.  :maybe:


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Offlinegww
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28590422 - 12/19/23 07:55 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

It is addressed and they are not to count write in because he is disqualified to be president just like if he was not 35 years old.  It is on hold for now though as they put a stay on their ruling till other things happen.  In the united states of america, nobody questions not counting a vote for a 35 year old even if others support him/her.

I am pretty sure that trump will get Clarence Thomas's wife's vote even if it can not be counted.


Edited by gww (12/19/23 08:08 PM)


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: gww] * 1
    #28590467 - 12/19/23 08:28 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

What is clear, is that it is not crystal clear.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineJailbird420
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #28590478 - 12/19/23 08:35 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Couldn't voters in appropriate states "write in" Trumps name.

-but- They (like CO)don't have to put him on the ballot, do they have to count this type of vote?

United States of America, right?




No. It would be akin to voting for Mickey Mouse.

If Trump is disqualified in Colorado no amount of write-ins will get him elected, they would be throwing away their vote.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: Jailbird420]
    #28590488 - 12/19/23 08:38 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

On the ballot or not, a vote for Trump in Colorado is a vote thrown away.


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Offlinegww
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: Jailbird420]
    #28590490 - 12/19/23 08:41 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

All the supreme court has to do right now is drag their feet past jan 5 and trump will stay on the primary ballot.  If I have it right.


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OfflineJailbird420
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: gww]
    #28590516 - 12/19/23 09:06 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

You have it backward.

They stayed their judgment till Jan 4th to give the SCOTUS a chance to make their call.

If the SCOTUS drags its feet, Trump will not be added to the Colorado ballot.

The Colorado SCOTUS already deemed him ineligible, the U.S. SCOTUS will have to overrule them ... otherwise, their ruling will stand.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: Jailbird420]
    #28590539 - 12/19/23 09:21 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

It's extremely unlikely that the SCOTUS will allow this to stand, much more likely that they'll rule that it doesn't apply in this case.

The amendment in question was created to specifically target people who joined the south during the civil war. Anyone on the court who takes into account how the law was intended at the time (which is how several of the justices tend to analyze things currently) is probably going to say that it wasn't intended to be applied like this, but was instead intended to specifically apply to people involved in the civil war.

The amendment itself is vague and broad, it's unlikely the justices will come down with such a sweeping ruling as to bar a presidential candidate from consideration when there hasn't been any prior precedent of using the amendment in this way. Even after the civil war, this amendment was seldom used even by people who did fight for the south. It has basically never been applied to anyone in modern times, and even during the civil war era applied to almost no one. That's a large historical precedent that the supreme court is unlike to overturn, especially given the circumstances.

Frankly, despite Trump, it's probably overall for the best that this particular part of the amendment isn't more broadly applied. It is so vague that technically you might say that just about anything disqualifies someone. I'd rather run the risk of Trump than to be constantly preventing people from running at all.

Also, at a technical level, the amendment actually only mentions members of congress, senate, the military, and state government who have betrayed the nation. It actually doesn't say that it applies to presidents who have betrayed the nation. This might seem nitpicky, but this is law we're talking about.


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Offlinegww
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: Jailbird420]
    #28590604 - 12/19/23 10:09 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

M
Quote:

Jailbird420 said:
You have it backward.

They stayed their judgment till Jan 4th to give the SCOTUS a chance to make their call.

If the SCOTUS drags its feet, Trump will not be added to the Colorado ballot.

The Colorado SCOTUS already deemed him ineligible, the U.S. SCOTUS will have to overrule them ... otherwise, their ruling will stand.



My understanding is all trump has to do is appeal and it is permanently stayed even if the supreme court has taken no action, he will be on the primary ballot.  Trump could appeal it on jan 3.


Edited by gww (12/19/23 10:12 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Colorado, The 14th Amendment and the SCOTUS [Re: gww] * 1
    #28590641 - 12/19/23 10:56 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

If the Supreme Court declines to review the case, that is the end and the Colorado court decision is final.

Generally, the Supreme Court does not review facts found at trial, only if those facts apply to the law. If the court declines to review, then a court has found trump engaged in an insurrection.

Lots of people blaming democrats for this case, when it was brought by republicans and it concerns the republican primary ballot.


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