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InvisibleAsante
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Bitcoin is >$40,000 again * 2
    #28570065 - 12/05/23 03:13 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

If you wandered away from crypto, its back up again.

I walked out but you might want to hop back in.


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: Asante] * 1
    #28570077 - 12/05/23 03:23 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Sounds like a good slogan to get people to buy in and raise your crypto..


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InvisibleDekozn
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: vandago]
    #28570157 - 12/05/23 04:16 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Yes we need you to buy our bags


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: vandago] * 2
    #28570162 - 12/05/23 04:20 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Quote:

vandago said:
Sounds like a good slogan to get people to buy in and raise your crypto..





if you for the past 19 years paid attention t my personality, you'd know that i'm just chiming in ppl to avoid them missing out on an opportunity.

But, i'm out myself.


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: Asante]
    #28570173 - 12/05/23 04:24 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

I’ve been watching your financial tips. Have you gotten anyone rich yet, or are you yourself rich after 19 years?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: vandago]
    #28570200 - 12/05/23 04:41 PM (1 month, 23 days ago)

Oh you want to play it like that?


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: Asante]
    #28570378 - 12/05/23 06:38 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

No I’m genuinely asking. I’m looking to invest in the next year and I don’t know what lead to follow. I see people playing with it a lot, but I don’t see anyone getting rich ( that I know in real life ) so I’m hesitant to actual invest on any advice I’ve read.


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OfflineYokal
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: vandago]
    #28570848 - 12/06/23 12:44 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

bitcoin is too volatile to trade
you could use it to watch the broader market tho


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OfflineHeroic DosageS
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: Yokal]
    #28570883 - 12/06/23 02:09 AM (1 month, 22 days ago)

I'm quite literally selling a business for much less than it's worth purely so I can buy more bitcorns!

Go go go!


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: vandago] * 3
    #28571543 - 12/06/23 01:13 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

If you're looking to invest in something to "set it and forget it", that is, for long term asset allocation that is resistant to currency debasement, I don't think you're going to find something better than bitcoin, at least for now.

My money is where my mouth is, and has been for ten years.  I don't like to flaunt the amount of money I've made, suffice it to say that it has been meaningful, and by far the best investment I've made both with respect to absolute and relative returns (and I've been trading equities and options for two decades and have an income property portfolio of real estate!).

Now of course, getting in here at BTC $45K is a lot different than when I entered the space at BTC ~$200 and ETH ~$11, but strictly based upon the supply metrics in conjunction with bitcoin's historical performance relative to global liquidity, the conclusion that bitcoin is among the most leveraged bets for continued currency debasement is pretty clear.  Major upcoming catalysts such as wall street's impending integration with the space (which should almost assuredly bring much more capital into the sector due to finally meeting heretofore ambiguous regulatory requirements), expectations of central banks stepping off the rate hike cycle and even potentially easing interest rates within the next year, and bitcoin's "halving" continuing to reduce the new supply of bitcoin hitting the market, and it's not too difficult to see why the cycle has pivoted higher over the past two months.

Consider finally, that gold has historically served the purpose of "store of value" and its global market cap is pegged at just under $14 trillion.  Bitcoin is a lighter weight, more secure store of value, with less inflationary characteristics (i.e. more scarcity) relative to gold, and is presently valued at < $1 trillion.  By that comparison alone, it is not a stretch to imagine bitcoin increasing in dollar denominated value by an order of magnitude, which would put one BTC ~ $450,000.


   


Naturally, none of this speculative analysis is guaranteed to come to fruition.  But the narrative has held for a decade now, and I'd be very disappointed if I hadn't been (and continued to) take advantage of it.




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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: geokills]
    #28571636 - 12/06/23 02:34 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

set it and forget it




With all due respect, that's not how you benefit from volatility.

Quote:

based upon the supply metrics in conjunction with bitcoin's historical performance relative to global liquidity




Without me asking for you to split hairs over the last several years, can you demonstrate to us a pattern of trigger events, or signals, preceding the last several dips and rises?


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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: durian_2008] * 1
    #28571653 - 12/06/23 02:49 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

I am really turned off by all the scandals that have happened. It’s not the bitcoin in and of itself, it’s the exchanges and all the middle men involved that are shady as fuck. Multiple exchanges have proven to be frauds. Too many people have been straight up robbed (as opposed to a loss on a fair gamble).

Am I missing something? Honestly, I’m pretty ignorant on this topic but what I’ve seen repulses me.


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A disembodied-re-embodied consciousness be-ing
(With all the accoutrements.)


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: durian_2008]
    #28571657 - 12/06/23 02:56 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

durian_2008 said:
Quote:

set it and forget it




With all due respect, that's not how you benefit from volatility.




That's the point.  The crypto "trade" isn't really a trade.  When I play equities and options, that's where I'm trading, and I've done OK... but nothing compared to my HODL on crypto, a nascent early-adoption global asset class allocation.  Sometimes, you just don't need to overthink it.


Quote:

Quote:

based upon the supply metrics in conjunction with bitcoin's historical performance relative to global liquidity




Without me asking for you to split hairs over the last several years, can you demonstrate to us a pattern of trigger events, or signals, preceding the last several dips and rises?




In general, an anonymous analyst by the moniker "Plan B" has been rather vocal about his "Stock to Flow" analysis, typically used for commodities relative to their inflation metrics, and the pattern has - at least so far - held up reasonably well for identifying the historical bitcoin cycles that you are asking about.

   


I also saw a chart overlay between bitcoin price and global liquidity, which was telling with regard to my "currency debasement" comments above.  I can't immediately find that chart, but there is a correlation to be sure.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: Blue Cthulhu] * 2
    #28571667 - 12/06/23 03:09 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:
I am really turned off by all the scandals that have happened. It’s not the bitcoin in and of itself, it’s the exchanges and all the middle men involved that are shady as fuck. Multiple exchanges have proven to be frauds. Too many people have been straight up robbed (as opposed to a loss on a fair gamble).

Am I missing something? Honestly, I’m pretty ignorant on this topic but what I’ve seen repulses me.




You're not missing anything with regard to the fact that there have been many "rug pulls" and "exit scams" which are essentially plain ol' fraud.  I would remind you that those activities are also abundant in conventional finance, but most people have already learned how to deal effectively with them.  Crypto is a new paradigm, and as such, has a learning curve most folks need to ride before they can feel secure and confident in self-custody of their assets, let alone executing regularly with various blockchain networks.

For context, I wired some $11K over to a Japanese bank back in 2013.  It was designated to fund my account at MtGox, by most accounts, the first bitcoin exchange.  It wasn't long before it became apparent that MtGox was either the victim of hacking, or internal scamming, but regardless, the exchange soon went into bankruptcy receivership with the Japanese courts.  Through coordinated petitioning, creditors (myself included) worked to modify the bankruptcy process into a civil rehabilitation process, as the MtGox estate held the bulk of its recovered assets in bitcoin, which was subject to market fluctuations whereas a traditional bankruptcy bases claims on asset values that are frozen at the time of bankruptcy, and any surplus capital appreciation would benefit the original shareholders of the bankrupt entity, of whom many suspect may be complicit in the heist.  Ultimately, that $11K I sent to Japan, because of the civil rehabilitation process and bitcoin's associated price appreciation, despite the estate having LOST 80% of its assets, is nevertheless worth over a quarter million today.  I have personally been presented with legal buyout offers of $80K for my claim, which I'm happy to rescind, as I'm not planning to sell that bitcoin.

I also have a small claim with Cryptopia out of New Zealand, another entity that was hacked.  Ultimately, you can circumvent the risks by self-custodying your assets.  Buy a secure hardware wallet (the size of a USB drive) from Ledger.com and you will be your own bank, carrying as much or as little of your net worth as you prefer, wherever you go, without scruitany.


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: geokills]
    #28571681 - 12/06/23 03:22 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

I'm afraid to self carry because I dont know how to do my taxes, right now if I do everything on my wealth simple app the give me the papers for my taxes

Like how do transaction fees count towards your taxes, you lose a little but I guess you still have to pay taxes on it I dunno


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For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

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OfflineBlue Cthulhu
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: geokills] * 1
    #28571760 - 12/06/23 04:54 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

Quote:

geokills said:
Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:
I am really turned off by all the scandals that have happened. It’s not the bitcoin in and of itself, it’s the exchanges and all the middle men involved that are shady as fuck. Multiple exchanges have proven to be frauds. Too many people have been straight up robbed (as opposed to a loss on a fair gamble).

Am I missing something? Honestly, I’m pretty ignorant on this topic but what I’ve seen repulses me.




You're not missing anything with regard to the fact that there have been many "rug pulls" and "exit scams" which are essentially plain ol' fraud.  I would remind you that those activities are also abundant in conventional finance, but most people have already learned how to deal effectively with them.  Crypto is a new paradigm, and as such, has a learning curve most folks need to ride before they can feel secure and confident in self-custody of their assets, let alone executing regularly with various blockchain networks.

For context, I wired some $11K over to a Japanese bank back in 2013.  It was designated to fund my account at MtGox, by most accounts, the first bitcoin exchange.  It wasn't long before it became apparent that MtGox was either the victim of hacking, or internal scamming, but regardless, the exchange soon went into bankruptcy receivership with the Japanese courts.  Through coordinated petitioning, creditors (myself included) worked to modify the bankruptcy process into a civil rehabilitation process, as the MtGox estate held the bulk of its recovered assets in bitcoin, which was subject to market fluctuations whereas a traditional bankruptcy bases claims on asset values that are frozen at the time of bankruptcy, and any surplus capital appreciation would benefit the original shareholders of the bankrupt entity, of whom many suspect may be complicit in the heist.  Ultimately, that $11K I sent to Japan, because of the civil rehabilitation process and bitcoin's associated price appreciation, despite the estate having LOST 80% of its assets, is nevertheless worth over a quarter million today.  I have personally been presented with legal buyout offers of $80K for my claim, which I'm happy to rescind, as I'm not planning to sell that bitcoin.

I also have a small claim with Cryptopia out of New Zealand, another entity that was hacked.  Ultimately, you can circumvent the risks by self-custodying your assets.  Buy a secure hardware wallet (the size of a USB drive) from Ledger.com and you will be your own bank, carrying as much or as little of your net worth as you prefer, wherever you go, without scruitany.




Clearly, you are highly sophisticated with this material. But is the average bitcoin investor? The territory seems ripe for the savvy to prey upon the naive.


--------------------
"Things are true that I forget, but no one taught that to me yet." :aliendance:
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(With all the accoutrements.)


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: Asante] * 2
    #28571839 - 12/06/23 06:06 PM (1 month, 22 days ago)

I'm a conservative investor.  I max a retirement account each year and I'm looking at some Vanguard index funds.  Slow and steady.  The thing the turns me off the most about crypto is that it doesn't seem to offer any tangible benefit.  Seems like there's new cryptos all the time.  The only thing that gives them value is people arbitrarily investing in them.  IMO, that's very different from investing in a company that makes tangible products.  Crypto seems like investing in collectibles.  You're just hoping it takes off.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: badchad] * 1
    #28571871 - 12/06/23 06:39 PM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:

The thing the turns me off the most about crypto is that it doesn't seem to offer any tangible benefit [...] Crypto seems like investing in collectibles.




In a sense, yes.  Just like gold.  There is no tangible benefit to gold aside from its unique aesthetics*, and yet, gold has been collected by humans since time immemorial and is worth, collectively, $14 trillion at present day.  As gold is, so is bitcoin, an asset that derives value due to its proven scarcity and resistance to government manipulation.

Bitcoin does offer superior utility with regard to being able to carry the entirety of one's wealth anywhere one travels, simply by memorizing a mnemonic seed phrase.  No need to entrust a bank to hold the funds, or have to privately secure the wealth... let alone attempting to carry wealth in a physical form (stacks gold and/or fiat cash and coins are heavy AF).

*Gold can be used as a corrosion resistant non-reactive conductor of course, but there are other materials that can do this as well and for cheaper, so it's certainly not the reason why gold is valued as richly as it is.


Quote:

Seems like there's new cryptos all the time.




This is true, it's not too hard to spin up a network, but what of it?  It's not particularly difficult to make different metal alloys either, and as with cheap metal, there are plenty of cheap cryptos.  But to create a network with no central authority that also attracts network participation and active development, now that's a different story; one which bitcoin has enjoyed writing!

There is a reason bitcoin is hugely more valuable than any of the other thousands of cryptos out there.  Rest assured, although some of these obscure and relatively useless crypto tokens may appear to carry some value, digging deeper into the books and it's plain to see that there is often no depth of liquidity for the majority of these tokens.  So although someone may have transacted a small amount for some value, the functional value is often much less, as that transaction price would never hold if any appreciable amount of capital were to meet it on the buy or the sell side.

That being said, there are indeed alternatives to bitcoin that show functional, tangible promise.  Ethereum is a prime example, but there is good work going on with many networks.  They won't all succeed to be sure, but I'm also pretty sure some surely will!  For example, Helium network just launched a $20/mo cell phone plan through it's crowd-sourced crypto incentivized hot spot network. That's pretty cool! https://hellohelium.com/


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Offlinegopher
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: geokills]
    #28571948 - 12/06/23 07:29 PM (1 month, 21 days ago)

I havnt heard of litecoin In ages, it used to be the runner up


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Bitcoin is >$40,000 again [Re: Blue Cthulhu]
    #28572650 - 12/07/23 10:38 AM (1 month, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Blue Cthulhu said:
I am really turned off by all the scandals that have happened. It’s not the bitcoin in and of itself, it’s the exchanges and all the middle men involved that are shady as fuck. Multiple exchanges have proven to be frauds. Too many people have been straight up robbed (as opposed to a loss on a fair gamble).

Am I missing something? Honestly, I’m pretty ignorant on this topic but what I’ve seen repulses me.




Just a quick followup to this post, relaying the words of Scott @ CryptoMarketMentor:

Quote:

Someone tweeted me last night, who has followed me for a while going off about how Binance was a fraud and the whole thing is a scam. That’s fine. I’m used to it and I’ve heard it for a long time, ever since I first invested in the space in 2020.

The truth is, it doesn’t actually matter.

Technology is the trade. Bad actors will go to jail and pay fines like the regular banks have done since the dawn of time. JP Morgan has paid nearly 39 Billion in fines over the years and last time I checked they were still in business..and we still use the banking technology that they provide, in fact some might say, they are too big to fail and paying fines for breaking regulations is built into the business model. JP Morgan uses blockchain, created their own JPM Coin and it does about $1 Billion in transactions per day and last month they said they believe it could handle $10B per day in the next few years.

Technology is the trade. We’re betting that public chains like Bitcoin and Ethereum will have more people using it down the road than right now. We’re also betting that cheaper faster chains could catch on and other tech that links them all together. We’re living in the future but investing in the now. That’s how you front run an adoption curve. It’s not made obvious at the beginning, but it sure is after all the best money has been made.

Tesla sure wasn’t an obvious trade in 2019 but once it went up 1000% and after it was added to the S&P it sure became clear. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea and that’s fine, there’s literally 1000s of other ways to make money. My bet is just that Digital Assets will make that money faster because in a risk-on environment Technology leads.




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