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Blue_Lux
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nudity 1
#28568885 - 12/04/23 08:23 PM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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I asked RGV this but it is really an interesting question, and I want someone else's opinion on this. I LIKE disagreements, because then we get somewhere, but feel free to agree or take it somewhere else.
I don't mean this in a perverse way.
" I was taking a shower and I was thinking about if puritanical religious views about sex and nudity is really responsible for people being so dirty in the middle ages... They got rid of those huge baths they used to have, and they were really methodical about their baths with multiple rooms, procedures, etc. What do you think about this? And furthermore what do you think the social impact would be if people did see each other naked in a way like this which is not sexual. The Romans were uncircumcised and so male genitalia was covered so to speak by the foreskin, and the Romans and Greeks thought an exposed glans was inappropriate... Perhaps this means something? I think people would have, personally, thought someone was weird if they were ogling people and aroused. I wonder too if the Romans were not therefore as easily aroused by nudity because of these baths. What do you think?"
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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when did you ask me this?
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Blue_Lux
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Just maybe 30 minutes ago in another thread lol
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Blue_Lux
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I want your answer. You have unique spins
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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found it in forum 1 psychedelics.
the roman toilets were like troughs, 10 to 20 people pooping in a row, privacy would have been an unthoughtof luxury.
their baths were also communal achievements.
their civilization fell apart and nobody fixed the plumbing.
mud and poverty took over
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Blue_Lux
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Ahh so maybe the thoughts simply did not occur to them as much. I was in the library recently, you know, well I was having some stomach trouble. As I was sitting minding my own business in the stall hoping nobody would come in, as I really don't like public restrooms, someone came beside the stall to the urinal (1 stall, 1 urinal or maybe 2 i forget). They stuck their foot out you know halfway under the stall and started tapping it. This is called cruising. I don't do this and never have, but it has happened to me many times, believe it or not. I don't get offended by it particularly. I really just find it annoying. I'm like sheesh, really that horny, huh? Or are you some undercover cop? office of the night. Anyway. Michel Foucault wrote about the structure of modern bathrooms. In a Roman bathroom, this would be impossible. I wonder if it is exactly these cubicalized designs that actually reinforce this behavior, which is obviously artificially fetishized. Nature has no cubicles. I don't know whether to think the Romans were sexual geniuses or really just operating with maximum efficiency. I wonder too if they considered the social implications of seeing other people bathing and relieving themselves.
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Blue_Lux
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Oh and in that situation I don't make any response, because even a cough can be a signal to these cruiserweight champions. After a few moments that seem like eternity they get the message and leave. I have read about cruising. I find it quite fascinating really, although it is hella illegal. I think it involves an artificial sexual neurosis, personally. This is why I don't get aggressive with them and tell them to fuck off. I know they are probably suffering and have to seek sex in a bathroom. That is kinda sad honestly, but I digress.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Men went to the toilet with other men in rome, they had community wash sticks for their asses. Maybe they said no homo but I don't doubt a lot of funky stuff happened in those places.
Shit was different back in the day, and it changed over time. Did they wear underwear underneath their togas in Greece?
They had penises on the floor in Pompeii that pointed travellers towards the brothel.
Maybe women didn't have as many rights or respect as they do nowadays, certainly really. Concepts of dignity and respect evolved over time, technologies in toilets developed too.
People didn't know about bacteria, how diseases spread, shat in the streets etc.
Religion has polygamy, religion had slaves, it was as fucked up as many aspects of the times they were ruling in.
I don't know what specific role religion had to play in the sexuality of historical societies, but religion or not, people got freaky all over the place.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: nudity [Re: sudly]
#28569136 - 12/04/23 11:56 PM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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I think people should be allowed to choose who they want to expose themselves to.
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
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Hide yo kids….
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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Quote:
BrendanFlock said: I think people should be allowed to choose who they want to expose themselves to.
What if I wanted to expose myself to you?
Edited by Bardy (12/05/23 01:06 AM)
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28569190 - 12/05/23 01:46 AM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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Then do it..
But btw I have already bitten the apple so I will judge you..
Btw.. what sex are you..
Female Ihope......?!
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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But btw I have already bitten the apple so I will judge you..
Bahaha 
Don’t worry I’ve bitten the apple too so I won’t expose myself to you
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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lmao
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28569224 - 12/05/23 03:54 AM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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Lol I am very well aware how bizarre people are. I've seen people do all kinds of things, it doesn't phase me. I saw a colostomy my dad did when I was 8. Plus I've seen homeless naked people, one in particular where I live does not wear underwear, and he wears spandex skirts or something like that, and he is clearly mentally ill... I wonder if he is una prostituta. I have no idea. There was another one who would have his baggy shorts to his ankles just walking around with an oversized ragged shirt, and you could totally see his ass. I don't care about what people do, unless you corner me or touch me, "then I'm straight razor"
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/05/23 04:18 AM)
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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What is biting the apple? I'm missing something.
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/05/23 04:55 AM)
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Blue_Lux
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Re: nudity [Re: sudly]
#28569228 - 12/05/23 04:00 AM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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lol the ol community tersorium (sponge with vinegar on a stick)..
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I was actually cornered once in a bathroom by I presume a rapist. I got out without a fight... I was 18 at the time. There are some very [insert word] people, I concur, that's why I keep a bAlISoNg. I however have tried to put reason to why people behave the way they do. It's not for everybody. I don't expect people to take a similar approach, but perhaps try to conceive why people actually do these things, like for instance "cruising."
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Blue_Lux
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on 3rd thought If you have some fuckin' rank pair white of new balances or k swiss... I'm definitely not talking to you, and you don't deserve even a fuck off.
im kidding, i'm not THAT materialistic
jk I am
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/05/23 05:03 AM)
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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cruising in k swiss is akin to digging in a dumpster
From what I've read, there's no way this poor bastard has had any luck.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28569244 - 12/05/23 04:46 AM (1 month, 23 days ago) |
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https://www.wakefieldbooks.com/book/9781447803102
waaahahahahaha see, there are books on this stuff
get a load of this, no pun intended
Quote:
In this groundbreaking book, readers are taken on a journey through the rich and complex history of cruising, exploring its origins, evolution, and ongoing significance within the LGBTQ community. Through the voices of cruisers themselves, readers gain a powerful and intimate perspective on the ongoing struggle

The extents of neurosis are assiduous
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Ohhh I'm off to a lovely start this morning. I love this shit. okay
You are not allowed to wear George Carlin's shoes!
Unless you are 70+ years old
He's the only one who really pulled them off. Quite the feet if you ask me.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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nothing can escape the philosophical gaze
as in this gay philosopher's inquiry
The weird thing for me to think about however is if someone was stalking me in the library. I have heard they scope the place out, and I suspect it is actually someone working at the library, because those shoes were not able to be found. I'd have reported it, but I'm not a snitch. Snitches get stitches they say. Or some slashed tires. Nty
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/05/23 05:20 AM)
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Nudity is not always sexual. I wasn't exposed to it until going to beaches in mexico where everyone is topless and only wearing a g string. I was taken back and uncomfortable at first. Until I realized no one cared. It was all body types and all people. Just having fun. No weirdos. I tgink it's only sexual if you make it that way. It was a learning experience for me. I am glad I experienced it and opened my mind.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
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I've been to a naturist nudist colony lol Lots of very old people. But yes you are right I also had the impression most really don't care. I however didn't feel completely comfortable. It felt like one of those dreams when you are in school or some public place and you look down and you have no pants on. Personally I wish people would wear long, flowy clothes like the Romans and Greeks. not some stupid toga but a well thought out one with nice fabrics and patterns. I really like the way some of them look but I digress. I'm glad someone is on the same page as me.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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It was a learning experience for me. Helped me get over body insecurity. I think seeing real people as opposed to people you see on the media helped. I felt it was freeing. I'm grateful for the experience. The people I were with didn't have the same experience. Interesting to me that they were not as accepting.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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I am a person with no affinity to a different age, even this age is too brutal, too dirty, too dishonest.
I had hoped for better.
Although the dawning of the Age of Aquarius may have only been an illusion for a few of us in the west, I never really visualized what the public washrooms of the future would be like. Maybe if Jefferson Airplane sang more about washing up things would be different - perhaps a new music groups will take up the cause: The New Toilets Piss Off and the Urinals, Flush the Mic, Johnny Bath...
Some public washroom experiments in Europe and in Japan seem to provide both privacy and relief as well as safety and cleanliness. but they are mostly for elimination rather than grooming.
Canada has fallen behind.
I think that the Roman experience would not have been pleasant for me, I would have been covered in marble dust (if they let me sculpt) and dead before 50, but more probably dead before 11 - as my appendix was badly inflamed at that time.
except maybe for the beach, childhood on a beach at any time could have been good, I love flotsam and jetsam.
the language was OK, any language with poetry works. I am glad that we have JavaScript and the web. I am glad I have the private bathtub that I write many of these comments from.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Humans are the only species where many individuals believe a lack of clothing is a form of sexual assault. And that sexual activities in public is a crime, labeled as "indecent exhibition" - and sometimes these people are registered as "sex offenders".
I'm very progressive about this issue. I think society needs a lot more nudity, from birth onwards. Teenagers need to experience a lot more nudity. Teen boys and girls should shower together after gym class. We must end this insane puritanical terrorism.
We need to fucking grow up as a species.
Peeping toms are not criminals
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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our clothing is supposed to protect us from bandits, but it is not bullet proof, the bandits keep on winning.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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We sexualize everything.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Imagine trying to clothe a community of wild apes or chimpanzees
it would lead to social chaos
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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And we harshly criticize bodies. My last trip I had an experience. I took a shower and looking at my body I saw it differently. Not an appreciation like i made humans or sexually. How I could see my ab muscles and curves and view it as a vessel for my soul. How I lacked an appreciation for it because I spent so much time protecting it from others. My protection inhibits me from appreciating it. I cant even put into words what I experienced. It wasn't maternal or sexual it was...idk how to describe it.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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I also think clothing is a means of self expression
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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lol that's admirable.
just floating in the bubbles. i like that
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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It was cool Seeing my body in a different way And I liked it And I feel like it's not ok to say that because someone will tell you why you shouldn't
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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I have seen something very similar. I have seen patterns forming all over my naked body, and I saw how my body was evolved. I saw the 'imperfections,' but they weren't conceived that way. My husband and I have been around each other naked so much that it does in fact turn into something different. There is a maturity about it that develops. I've tripped naked with him too and that is a very interesting experience. Reality is much more interesting. Hard to manage however.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
loladoreen said: I also think clothing is a means of self expression
this definitively ha! I'm recommending Rick Owens shoes https://www.ssense.com/en-ca/men/product/rick-owens/green-low-sneakers/13443711
and https://shop.zambarrett.com/ for everything else
just buy less often
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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lol
I want a blue houndstooth toga, maybe some grey and purple underneath or just regular white and black covering the exposed shoulder. I have a lot of ideas for togas but that one I will make here soon.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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And yes I will wear it in public. I don't give a shit.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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You could do all kinds of togas, but the fabric means everything. The right stitching. Obviously. But getting the right pattern is crucial. The possibilities are endless. The different color combinations make the toga what it is in my opinion. And for women a more transparent fabric could be used, with a slightly longer cut toga, and so nothing but parts of the ankles and calves would show through it. You wouldn't be able to see undergarments.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: I have seen something very similar. I have seen patterns forming all over my naked body, and I saw how my body was evolved. I saw the 'imperfections,' but they weren't conceived that way. My husband and I have been around each other naked so much that it does in fact turn into something different. There is a maturity about it that develops. I've tripped naked with him too and that is a very interesting experience. Reality is much more interesting. Hard to manage however.
I am more comfortable being naked. Especially if under the influence. I wasn't until after 45. I had these misconceptions in my head and had to gain my own confidence. I had a relationship with a man who made me feel sexy and that helped. It was really something I did on my own.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Psychedelics decondition me at least to see the absurdity of the mental chains. I think the suffering associated with recognizing subsequently that there are so many illusions and facades of conditioning is like Prometheus constantly having his liver eaten. The psychedelics dissolve 'conditioning' so much that I actually see conditioning, which I mean by constantly trod pathways of heuristics and repeated associations, and open things to what they really are, accompanied by so many perceptions that they are hard to keep track of. The brain wants to tie them together but cannot until the experience is over. Having this happen completely is how I see ego death, because the self consists of associations of knowledge that remain in a constant line through the progression of time. I think the puritanical views about the human body are real hallucinations not merely of sight but of mentality itself. The psychedelics are not so much hallucinatory to me, but undoing of hallucination. That is how I see sexual neuroses, as for instance someone finding themselves in a bathroom seeking sex. That whole situation, with the walls around one, is a hallucination.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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When I did coke in the late 80's
I always had to strip
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Must have been some great coke. I used to do cocaine as it made me very sociable. and I vowed never again because of cardiotoxicity. I sat rocking in the fetal position, arms wrapped around my knees, for an hour or two the last time I did it. It makes me very talkative; on it I can sit and listen very well without my usual eccentric mannerisms, but actually I tried to have sex on cocaine a time or two before the rocking back and forth on the floor (I hope this isn't TMI), and I had the worst erectile dysfunction I have ever had.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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that was incredibly embarrassing
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,850
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i bet a lot of sex taboos come from the impacts of overpopulation. with exponential population growth you can easily grow way to big for the resources available.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: ... and listen very well without my usual eccentric mannerisms...
are we talking about tourettes in your case? quite a few super intelligent people have a form of tourettes.
My GF at the time could consume twice as much coke as I could and we just played cards forever and smoked crappy cigarettes. several months of purgatory like that.
got a new GF and stopped accepting coke session invites that I had to pay for anyway.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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I have this weird thing I have had since childhood that I am frankly too embarrassed to describe. This is actually the first time I have said it to anyone besides my h. It has to do with animals, and it comes out when I'm around my husband. I have considered maybe I have some form of tourettes, and spoken with hubub about it. Maybe yes.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


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I would express it a lot more openly in early childhood. I can't even describe it if I wanted to, but He understands and thinks it is just part of my personality when I open up.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Okay, I lied. I could describe it, but it is too weird.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Weirdly enough, I can't find anything about this thing of mine. I am reading people have animals in order to stop it from happening. This happens to me in the presence of animals, so mine is literally the opposite of all this stuff.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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I am highly reluctant to post this, and I may delete this. Have you heard anything like this?
Oh wow! I just read something profound. Dogs respond to gibberish more than actual words. The thing is... And this will sound fantastic... I actually did this gibberish tourettes thing to dogs and cats as early as I can remember, in their presence. My siblings thought I was nuts. Maybe it isn't so nuts afterall. I don't know. I still won't give you a full example. It is truly insane sounding. At the age of 6 or 7 I told my sister I could talk to our dog, and our dog before that one whom was mauled by a womeriner, a little Yorkshire terrier, who would cause the most ridiculous constructions of gibberish. I can give you an example okay. One example. Don't laugh. For some reason I would call the dog "deedenz" "the deedenz" "my deedenz" and this was accompanied by the most indescribable feeling as if I was putting into words the actual movements and being of the dog itself. There are many other gibberish words I have come up with in this state, especially with cats, but for sure with dogs, rats, and hamsters. Again this is the most I have told anyone about this other than you know. And he has seen me do it to this day. Perhaps this is related to some of my eccentricities in social settings. I could analyze this a bit, but this is too long at this point.
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/05/23 01:03 PM)
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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I have seen my life like a science experiment / case study since I realized Christianity was bogus at the age of 12 or 13. This is how I can bear to lay bare some of these intimate details about myself.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I am aware some people talk baby words to dogs and do the whole googoogaga thing. That is not what I am talking about. There are more details, but I cannot bring myself to make myself seem so insane. It isn't googoogaga. I have yet to hear of anyone else doing this. I was convinced as a child that animals could pick up on when I did this, and I had very strong feelings for animals. I still do. I have kept this to myself for long enough. Think what you will, but I'd like to know what you think. and the only person that has ever caused this in me is my husband, and I have transformed it into a plethora of inside jokes. If someone heard us, pretty often they would think us totally insane or on drugs.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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It is like glossolalia. This is part of the reason psychedelics fascinated me so much after the first time I tried one. They caused these sound/words in my head that related to images, and they were very quick. There is one I remember vividly but it is so absolutely hysterical to me and sexual that I cannot say it. Other ones during that first trip made me feel a bit weird. But psychedelics absolutely cause something similar in me, but I don't vocalize it.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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do you meow? I had a girlfriend that would spontaneiously meow around me
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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definitely not
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I may delete all that just because you asked me that. But I want Red Green Vines to respond first.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Quote:
Freedom said: do you meow? I had a girlfriend that would spontaneiously meow around me
this sounds like it could be really fun
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Perhaps it doesn't conform with academic dogma concerning language formation. Hmm. Maybe I will keep it all up.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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But, no, I'm not your muffin-making, cat-collar wearing whore.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: I may delete all that just because you asked me that. But I want Red Green Vines to respond first.
I do not see anything wierd about calling the little schnitzel "deedenz" as a form of whale speak or bat speak, or any other echolocating cleveer creatures who can read sound as shape mass and motion.
the question I have is it part of hyperthymesia or Mega Memory such as Turrettes, or is it some other gift.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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Last seen: 32 minutes, 40 seconds
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: But, no, I'm not your muffin-making, cat-collar wearing whore.
it wasn't sexual, there was no collar, she didn't idenify as a cat, and it was something she was sensitivve to like you appear to be with this,
funny you feel so guarded yet feel so free to project a collared whore on someone with something similar - is that how you feel about yourself?
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I don't know. But that is all I will say about it. I believe it is however related to witty replies I have come up with spontaneously. There is almost a sensation I have with it, and I can actually feel something in the left side of my head, by the temple when I do this, and it is actually inside of my head. I have pondered this extensively but to no avail. I have considered it even some form of mental retardation because it is so absurd, but I am not, and I am also not schizophrenic. I have considered the possibilities, and it seems kind of like tourettes, but it isn't any kind of tourettes I have ever heard of.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I am used to people saying things in an underhand manner, and I assumed that is what you were doing there... As in... Surely you have heard of the whole cat girl, gay cat boy meme, no?
I took that as you were insulting me.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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it's snot.
this does not explain your speaking in tongues and thinking in Latin while yearning for togas and public baths.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Did you consider the spontaneous language-like thing associated with psychedelics? Surely you know dogs and cats have neurotransmitter systems similar to us, and this does have to do with emotion and affection. I think there is a subtlety to this, but I haven't pieced it together entirely yet. Terence Mckenna spoke about dmt and glossolalia. I have never experienced this with dmt but with lsd and psilocybin and 25c and 25d nbome. It really feels extremely similar, and I can't imagine there is no neurological connection between these things. Perhaps it is not as strong as I have been led to believe. The pseudo word sound things that happen to me with psychedelics are as if the structures which produce inner thoughts have been hijacked, and literally feel like they are spinning. This is not the same thing, but it is strangely similar.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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right well Terrence will be a good resource for you if you want vague notions about stuff.
Dogs are intelligent creatures, who may or may not be able to understand you when you are speaking meaningfully to them. (would Terrence? would I?)
The work you do to be meaningful to your dog involves a lot of "presence", and that puts you into the Bat and Cetacean echolocation domain i.e. some composite mental sensory product directly informs your perceptive reflexes in the here and now, and something similar also informs the dog's reflexes - a kind of communion ensues.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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This makes sense. Thank you for your thoughts.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Sorry, if you did not mean anything insulting by the meow comment. I will leave my little ebullition for all to see. Yes, I am somewhat insecure. However, I have endured many barbs concerning my sensitivities. Sometimes I slip and react according to that conditioned way of interpretation. I am a neurotic individual if you could not already tell.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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Last seen: 32 minutes, 40 seconds
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: I am used to people saying things in an underhand manner, and I assumed that is what you were doing there... As in... Surely you have heard of the whole cat girl, gay cat boy meme, no?
I took that as you were insulting me.
i have no idea about the cat meme. all i said is i had an ex that meows. sure you could associate that with anything but association proves nothing, check your assumptions/projections, especially before saying something insulting. I feel much less incined to communicate with you after the cat whore comment.
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: What is biting the apple? I'm missing something.

Biting the apple like Adam and Eve, so that we’re ashamed of our genitalia. That’s what I assumed haha
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I already felt the same way about you a few times, but I obliged anyway and forewent my judgment.
 
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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I had my forwent trimmed when I was 8 days old
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Lol. i am too sadly circumscribed, which may be why I compensate with my libidiphilology, who knows
I am against circumcision
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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I don't have a policy.
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Blue_Lux
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Sorry anyway, again. I'm a dick sometimes, but that's what trauma does to you. I used to be very sweet. I've been substance-less for a few weeks trying to implement measures to mitigate my issues purely by brain-power. Doesn't always work. Around 3 o clock my hypervigilance starts to act up lately, sometimes not until 6. I find some parts of myself very ugly, and that was my ugliness showing. Where I come from, the people give much more than that for far less. I am working on things. I'll use this as a learning opportunity to be better.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I'll say actually I am staunchly against it. My hub a dub dub is all natural. There is indeed a reason they do it, and it is not for hygiene. That is a tense subject, so I won't remark. It is exhausting too. Clearly cruel though.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28570613 - 12/05/23 08:27 PM (1 month, 22 days ago) |
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Lol I meant I was missing Christian belief.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: I already felt the same way about you a few times, but I obliged anyway and forewent my judgment.
  
if you ever think im projecting or making assumptions about your words or insulting you, just call it out directly
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: Lol I meant I was missing Christian belief.
Oh right, yeah I am too.
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ieatgravel
Stranger

Registered: 05/10/23
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Welp, for a modern example of this you could go to a sauna in finland . Nothing sexual about being naked in there, just don't start staring at people's willies or something.. I think it's even prohibited to go into a sauna with swimwear in public pools, as the chlorine stuck to them can be toxic when vaporized i think. Usually it is separated by sex though. Or you wear something when not. Or you don't. Really comes down to the place. Haven't had any problems so far with pervs so it seems to work quite well
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Some sweat lodge's are like that.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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The global porn industry exceeds $100 billion
And we have the balls to call some people "perverts"
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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lol. That's a lot of porn.
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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The word pervert has a nasty history.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Here is an example, if you have the eyes to see it.
pervertere - to overthrow, subvert
vertere - to turn
versus - turned, changed, swept; towards, turned to; furrow, line of writing (versiculus), land measure, dance step or turn
per - through, during, by
Do you see it?
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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I think pervert has different definitions for most people. Implying their sexual desires are different than their own. Some people view things as perverse others don't.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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I'll give you a hint
364 CE
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Blue_Lux
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Registered: 12/07/19
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In a relationship cuddling is more important than sex. & in my opinion cuddling that leads to sex leads to the best sex. This is almost never represented in movies. It usually goes from kissing to stripping to sex.
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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Truth
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
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I crave intimacy like that.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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That is because our bodies are meant for that experience. By meant I mean evolutionarily, phylogenetically conditioned.
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Blue_Lux
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The phenomenology of straight sex has been explored ad infinitum adque nauseam, so I must briefly say... The male G spot is no coincidence. There is something going on there physiologically. I am under the impression that homosexuality is not only a psychological possibility but a physiological possibility preconditioned phylogenetically. There is a certain experience here... It is simultaneous orgasm. This is where many people may wince, especially heterosexual men. I am mostly inclined to take the Freudian approach here and assert this is from a repression, just as the homosexual horror of vaginas is from a repression. Repression is not, moreover, what most people think it is. It has to do with what does not fit into one's personal consciousness regarding contents of the unconscious. The phenomenon of simultaneous orgasm in homosexual men with anal sex, I am convinced, is not some clever hack stumbled upon by us intelligent apes. There is furthermore the issue of feces in certain people, and it comes to mind and finds articulation with certain defensive regularities as soon if this topic is brought up. This is, I claim, exactly evidence of an anal retentive repression, and it involves the individual in an accusatory manner, essentially characterizing the other as the opposite, anal expulsive. I could explain this with more detail, but it gets too revealing. It is however astonishing and most likely correct, and it gives credence truly to Sigmund Freud saying "Man (humanity) is unmistakably bisexual." Through development and social conditioning, the outlets of the libido are transformed, usually in accordance with the demands of the ruling class but there are, however, formations that can be created for the exact purpose of opposing these demands (the real meaning of 'perversion.' There are also mere tendencies you could say, repeated social tendencies, which become de facto factors of what sculpts how people's sexualities turn out.
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Blue_Lux
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Furthermore, feces comes up usually in the ridiculing form of a joke directed at homosexual men. Freud states explicitly that jokes are reflections of the unconscious and operate in the same way as the dream work. He calls this the joke work. The joke work of the homosexual ridicule involves this repression, and Freud explains these sorts of jokes which require a third person, an observer of the joke, whereby the individual's unconscious defense mechanisms require a third person who becomes their partner of opposition toward the ridiculed person.
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redgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
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the Netflix series Bodies could help you with your nauseum issue. it's an improbable time travel murder mystery but aside from that quite good
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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ad nauseam in that context just means it has been discussed so extensively and that it has become superfluous. I meant that to contrast the serious lack of consideration of what I call the libidiphilology of homosexuality. Such libidiphilology of heterosexuality involves concepts like "complementarity," "anima and animus," etc. I'm saying there has yet to be a serious treatment of homosexuality as anything other than some hack or technicality. And it is almost always put as some aberration of heterosexuality. Freud mentions this too about Jokes, how the unfamiliar is almost always compared with the familiar, and he talks about a degredation here, which results because of the difference of degree between unconscious thoughts and conscious ones. The point is not that repression ought to be somehow turned around. no. repression has an important function, and it is really unethical and something like A Clockwork Orange to transform repressions, unless they result in certain neuroses that clearly are negatively impacting, but even then that repression shows itself in certain ways, which Freud has explicated so extensively.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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really, check Netflix series Bodies
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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LMFAO it is you and me, RGV's!
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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If someone were to say to a heterosexual married couple, just after they were confessing their love for each other, "Yes, I respect what you both have, that is your preference," It would be like... Uhh... "Was that passive aggressive?" Such a thing can only be a belittlement. Love is not some arbitrary preference, as if shopping around in a candy store you get a pack of lifesavers instead of a candy cane according to your quest for pleasure. I have received all kinds of the most insane statements concerning my marriage and homosexuality. "I respect your preference," "I don't understand it, but I accept it," "So who is the girl and who is the guy?" "Who is the top and who is the bottom?" I have heard this from countless people. And they don't really mean anything by it. It is really THAT foreign to them. Imagine someone saying "I don't understand it, but I accept it" to a straight couple. They would likely think this person was being disingenuous. "So something is telling you we are not fit for each other?"
The premise "I don't understand it" however takes a certain amount of disregard for whatever understanding exists of it. It really can communicate "I don't believe there is anything to understand about your relationship, but I am not going to judge you."
I have heard many times after someone finds out we are together "The only person who can judge you is God."
Like... Okay if this happened 5 times I would take the advice of people and write it off as something superfluous. But 500-1000 times?
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,151
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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i dont watch much TV. I will check that show out.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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If someone says to you, after a condition with the word 'but,' that they are not going to judge you then this can only mean they have already judged you. There is an unconscious fact in play which makes them think they have not actually judged you, and this is the unconscious discrepancy existing in their mind between what they themselves can mimic or understand as whatever would conform with their own actual body movements and cognitions. This is furthermore part of Freud's explanation of the joke-work, as for instance when you go to pick something up that you expected to be heavy, only to find out it was much lighter. This provokes laughter because of a discrepancy between a perceived expenditure of energy and the actual. The excess, for Freud, is channeled into laughter. It is, how I see it, the unperceived but intuited excess, which is the actuality of homosexuality, that provides the discrepancy between judging and having yet to judge, precisely because a person "Is not God," and they are not omniscient, which would render the unconscious knowledge explicit and understood, and capable of being authentically judged. It has already been unconsciously judged.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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you grew a beard?
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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lol why do you ask
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: you grew a beard?
We are one!
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
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Did you find these reflections revealing or have you considered something like this before?
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
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Last seen: 11 minutes, 54 seconds
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You have yourself a fan boy RGV
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28572886 - 12/07/23 01:53 PM (1 month, 20 days ago) |
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I am a velcro entity
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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do you have pinky on ignore? He just said he grew a beard, In this way progress is slow, but encouraging.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,151
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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ive ignored nichrome, wolf and flickedbic
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,151
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28572907 - 12/07/23 02:12 PM (1 month, 20 days ago) |
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Even though half the time RGV doesn't even answer me.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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honestly I have a buckshot shield, and am not perpetually pressing refresh, but I am honestly trying to be fair (to myself) as well as entertaining.
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,127
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28572959 - 12/07/23 03:10 PM (1 month, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Bardy said: You have yourself a fan boy RGV
I am going to save RGV's (and many more) so dunno about me being a fanboy.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,151
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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What do you mean by save?
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Bardy


Registered: 04/02/14
Posts: 2,184
Last seen: 11 minutes, 54 seconds
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Yes, what is this “save” you speak of?
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,229
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28573985 - 12/08/23 07:32 AM (1 month, 20 days ago) |
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Savior complex.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Pinkerton
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28574065 - 12/08/23 08:39 AM (1 month, 20 days ago) |
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Bardy said: Yes, what is this “save” you speak of?
Picture Messiah!
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redgreenvines
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oi
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Pinkerton
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yo
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Freedom
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Blue_Lux said: Repression is not, moreover, what most people think it is. It has to do with what does not fit into one's personal consciousness regarding contents of the unconscious.
what do you mean by no fit?
in my exploration of what i call repression it has to do with a belief or view that some content cannot be accepted.
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Freedom
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Blue_Lux said: If someone says to you, after a condition with the word 'but,' that they are not going to judge you then this can only mean they have already judged you. There is an unconscious fact in play which makes them think they have not actually judged you, and this is the unconscious discrepancy existing in their mind between what they themselves can mimic or understand as whatever would conform with their own actual body movements and cognitions. This is furthermore part of Freud's explanation of the joke-work, as for instance when you go to pick something up that you expected to be heavy, only to find out it was much lighter. This provokes laughter because of a discrepancy between a perceived expenditure of energy and the actual. The excess, for Freud, is channeled into laughter. It is, how I see it, the unperceived but intuited excess, which is the actuality of homosexuality, that provides the discrepancy between judging and having yet to judge, precisely because a person "Is not God," and they are not omniscient, which would render the unconscious knowledge explicit and understood, and capable of being authentically judged. It has already been unconsciously judged.
I think many people live in a preconceived world with preconceived judgements. Often these judgements are just implanted in people as children using appeals to outside authority like society, law, god, goodness, rightousness, etc etc. These judgements get inserted explicit and implicitly. The sense of self and self judgement is created to shape people, then they externalize the self judgement towards others.
So i could see it very plausible that the judgement towards being gay is amplified by jealously. Like why does this person get to break the rules and get love/pleasure/connection that i don't get to have?
is that what you mean by excess? that compared to the artificial "norm", gay people can apear to get more?
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redgreenvines
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Freedom said:
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Blue_Lux said: Repression is not, moreover, what most people think it is. It has to do with what does not fit into one's personal consciousness regarding contents of the unconscious.
what do you mean by no fit?
in my exploration of what i call repression it has to do with a belief or view that some content cannot be accepted.
right, I think of repression as the attempt to evade mental contents as if they were external. repression always leads to the agony of having to own your experiences whether they fit or do not fit your model.
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Pinkerton
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Blue_Lux
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Freud says childhood is unconscious because the actual things were once conscious but in such a way that, as the mind becomes larger with contents, and of more differentiated experiences, as in, a progressing knowledge of reality until adulthood.... Those early contents adhere to a looser, different actual structure of thought itself, so whatever exists there comes out only in ways that simply make no immediate, exact sense. These contents, think of them as broken down into smaller pieces, and the pieces of consciousness, ans the preconscious, are larger. So, those smaller pieces cannot be recognized explicitly with the pieces of what are conscious and preconscious - call them more complex thoughts in language as opposed to very quick, ambiguous, and often illogical.
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Blue_Lux
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Repression occurs when the experience, take in the case of ptsd, you actually do not record the memory fully. Only bits remain, just like a dream. This would be the manifest content of the dream, or in this case the traumatic experience. This is how fundamental this repressive, protective force of the psyche is for Freud, and I think there is a lot of merit to the idea. But repression need not be a traumatic experience. It can be almost anything essentially forgotten, but what matters is the way in which what is forgotten is forgotten, because it can leave traces - which Freud said requires someone else's analysis.
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redgreenvines
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Freud was wrong about children not being just as conscious (if not more engagingly conscious) as adults.
In repression, we contrive to restrict access to certain memories, but we record memory as per usual continuously.
so I am strongly in disagreement with both last 2 posts
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Blue_Lux
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Freud said children were more aware than adults. Read his book The Sexual Enlightenment of Children. He meant essentially they are geniuses. And this shows up in imagination, fantasies, play and the ability to recognize what then become unconscious for adults.
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redgreenvines
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his entire theory of unconscious is wrong. memory is either resting or activated in perception. our whole mind is either conscious and making memory or unconscious and not making memory.
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Blue_Lux
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His whole definition of the unconscious involves the process of repression. Repression just means it is constantly kept beneath the surface, precisely because it cannot come out. This is what the dreamwork means. His idea is the dream looks the way it does because of the structure of the unconscious, and that our conscious thoughts actually stay the same as we dream (he calls them day residues) but the content itself has multiple faces, as in... What Freud calls the facade of the dream images, Vorstellungen, if I am not mistaken. These facade images are in accordance with the unconscious machinations that overtake the visual field, and he explains how representation by opposite, absurdity, illogic, is all the language of the unconscious. He has furthermore found these aspects of this machinery as displacement and sublimation and condensation. The condensation of Vorstellungen from the unconscious are the facade images attached to the waking thoughts, which replace what would usually be there in waking consciousness.
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Oliver Sacks expounded on the Freudian theory and has a great explanation about how memory is not actually encoded for restore like a harddrive, but becomes unconscious simply because those memories are consistently altered throughout life, depending on the present consciousness capable of conceiving the original experience that then became a memory. He explains this with a man who painted a memory painting of an area of the town significant to his childhood, and then he holds a real photograph of the picture beside it in juxtaposition. You can clearly see the fabricated, fantastic elements the artist superimposed upon the memory, and these elements are precisely that of what has been de facto repressed but more so about the significant elements, the manifest content, which remains.
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Blue_Lux
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"our whole mind is either conscious and making memory or unconscious and not making memory."
Freud specifically addressed this objection numerous times in his books. He says jestingly that people who say this are simply not aware of just how many regularities there are concerning psychoanalysis and the appearance of elements of the unconscious.
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Jean Paul Sartre famously opposed the notion of the unconscious. I have read his Existential psychoanalysis, but it indeed does not take into consideration the examples within psychoanalysis that led Freud to posit the unconscious in the first place. In a large sense, Sartre was trying to construct something over and against Freud. Most of Sartre's words ring beautifully, and they are incredibly revealing. But it is common knowledge that Sartre really misunderstood Heidegger.
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Sartre was also influenced by mescaline. If Freud had analyzed psychedelics, Sartre wouldn't have been as significant. Sartre's philosophy captures psychedelia greatly, especially what appear totally without resemblance to the work of Freud... But Freud deals with the non psychedelic consciousness, the predominant state of affairs. It must be reckoned with, but Sartre's existential psychoanalysis just really begs the question of something approximating Eleusis.
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Blue_Lux
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It is not that when you are dreaming your brain is recording the memory exactly of you dreaming but that memory is being recreated and condensed back to you, WITH the machinery of the unconscious, hence the regularities mentioned about how Vorstellungen are conscious, namely displacements, replacements, condensations.
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redgreenvines
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Blue_Lux said: "our whole mind is either conscious and making memory or unconscious and not making memory."
Freud specifically addressed this objection numerous times in his books. He says jestingly that people who say this are simply not aware of just how many regularities there are concerning psychoanalysis and the appearance of elements of the unconscious.
I am not just saying this, It is factual, Freud based his theories on ill logic, and wrong fact. the only thing of value in his work is the emphasis on association in the process of examining memory. he knew nothing of the process of associative memory formation, but he came up with his ideas and they were timely at the time.
IF you swallow his definitions you can assume repression works like that, but then you have the problem that memory is not a thing that has a repressor. It is not picking and choosing what it saves, there is no editor to memory's process.
We are working double time to make sense of the real evidence and still justify the residue of language and wrong thinking about thinking that we have inherited from Freud and nearly all the illustrious Psychologists who followed.
I do not need to repeat myself about what has been shown in this regard, and if you are following the parade of functionalists, behaviouralists, cyberneticists, etc. then you can see that many jewels of the past are not better than paste. Put forward and smashed by new findings.
I am not starting with theory, I am starting with a clean biological system of memory formation and perception that works in the physical and temporal granularity that we experience in our lives, and that biological system says that memory formation is continuous as is perceptive recall, and where the recall has gaps it is a fault of access. While that access can easily be that the context has little to do with contexts that relate to a missing memory, it can also indicate that the person has developed a habit of avoiding contexts that will evoke the memory to be repressed. Now we get closer to PTSD and the apparent irrationality and defensiveness that can be several recognizeable contexts divorced from the issue being suppressed.
anyway, I do not have energy to correct all errors in understanding, so I am focusing on memory formation and perception and how to tell that story better.
today I played with adding video capture as a way of generating engrams.
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Blue_Lux
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The only thing that gives credence to what you are saying is if dreaming is just something going haywire about the brain, something not able to be made sense of. This is Freud's entire prospect. He mentions exactly this objection. He was no fool. He knew the dream images of memories within the dreaming itself, in the structure, the psychic machinery, if you will, have an operation that can indeed be made sense of.
What show up as Vorstellungen are what I call psychoconstants, what happen when little pieces of sub-memories clump together in certain patterns, orbiting and changing around what become centers of the fundamentally disparate pieces of experiences too quick and too small to be represented consciously that have become associated with each other through experience. Vorstellungen show themselves in consciousness as a result of the psychoconstants, comprised of what I called 'infons' once, like photons, but refrain from using. These are likely the smallest sequences of patterns of neuronal connections that form together actual conceptions of conscious thought. These patterns within our unconscious, the areas that can be visualized as distinct from other areas, are exactly the different sequences of conception itself, which facilitate, for instance, "stimulus: chair, response Vorstellung: rocking chair in childhood home." The actual machination, which is the pathway of that happening (taking place), is the result of these psychoconstants having been with emotion/positive affectation formed in the ways concomitant with how they have been received, as if from a mirror that slightly changes everything about an original image, which resembles the original but sets it in its display.
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Blue_Lux
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The sheer number of associations, along with their associations to other associations, and so forth, are conceptions but cannot be singly divided, and their operation has a mind of its own so to speak (not in the Jungian sense). This is actually perhaps the most significant difference between Jung and Freud. For Freud, the dream shows the actual way our inner minds work, which resembles chaos to consciousness, because it actually takes thousands of words and penetrating analyses to uncover (such is the work of Freud himself). Replacing what can actually be made aware with a neuromaterial reductionism is really to suppose there are no regularities that can be conceived and communicated with a CONSCIOUS efficacy, as opposed to one in materialistic observations on the brain and, as you say, functionalism. The functionalists have destroyed psychology, and all of it is post hoc and ad hoc.
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redgreenvines
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Dreams are natural concertive contents of consciousness intermittently interrupting dreamless sleep. the cues to trigger the sequences of perception that unfold as dreams begin as sounds (internal or external), a flash of light, physical touch, or even intestinal gas being interpreted. Random brain noise is also possible. There are always background events happening, although in dreamless sleep they do not usually restart any cortico-thalamic feedback - and if they did REM would resume with the CT feedback.
If cortico-thalamic feedback can ensue (eg theta wave dynamics) then the tiny perception (interpretation) will ramify into a full dream scenario or sequence.
you can play an association game to deconstruct some aspects of personality by working with parts of the dream as reported by a dreamer, and that is fine, but it is close to a parlour game as well. I am pretty good at reading Tarot cards - and for me it is almost like the process of dreaming. Finding a meaningful thread from strangely presented symbols or mental contents. Often re-dreaming the same mental contents to work it out better or to see/hone my own proclivities.
Some researchers have tried to indicate that here is where short term memory of the day is turned into long term memory, but that fantasy does not hold at all. short term memory is gone by 8 minutes, and long term memory is made instantaneously (within 1/10th of a second) from synchronous activation. ON TOP OF WHICH, most dreams are not about the contents of the day, they are all terrain contents, including the day but just as easily something else altogether. They refer to it as consolidation, but really any perception which reactivates mental content from memory is also at the same time binding that memory to the current context. consolidation therefore is as continuous as perception itself and not the purpose of dreaming nor is it a stage towards long term memory.
something you are reading or writing in bed, or a movie can color or direct the dream, as these recent activations (before sleep) are very accessible to the current body feelings (position, etc.).
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Edited by redgreenvines (12/09/23 07:14 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: The sheer number of associations, along with their associations to other associations, and so forth, are conceptions but cannot be singly divided, and their operation has a mind of its own so to speak (not in the Jungian sense). This is actually perhaps the most significant difference between Jung and Freud. For Freud, the dream shows the actual way our inner minds work, which resembles chaos to consciousness, because it actually takes thousands of words and penetrating analyses to uncover (such is the work of Freud himself). Replacing what can actually be made aware with a neuromaterial reductionism is really to suppose there are no regularities that can be conceived and communicated with a CONSCIOUS efficacy, as opposed to one in materialistic observations on the brain and, as you say, functionalism. The functionalists have destroyed psychology, and all of it is post hoc and ad hoc.
Consider it it more in tempporal granularity of perceptions arising and passing in 3/10ths of a second unless they are recycled by indirect feedback. Some of the perception becomes the basis for other perception and the combinations may generate something new, which if it has relevance, or is fascinating, also persists as the previous perceptive reflexes are fading. Note many chimeric visuals, sounds, and body feelings are very fascinating, and that layered effect is very likely in dreams, that not only proceed as flat association, but by combinatorial creative events that introduce new association potential - all the while making new memory as well as experiencing the dream.
At the cellular level of this, neurons tend towards exhaustion after some feedback, and need to rest for a few seconds, although having recently been active they are easier to reactivate (for 5 minutes usually) than fully resting neurons, which require a better matching context or more cogent content object similarities.
SO while the perceptions are ramifying, they are also turning off, and resting, but ready to reiterate after a couple of seconds.
Secondly, the 6 layer cortex is still working as though the person is awake, and if mental content becomes unchanging it is suppressed there, and will be prevented from ramifying.
So there are mechanisms in ordinary perception to support a changing experience from recent mental contents, being recycled and so we do not have the chain reaction kind of explosion of nuclear fission or fusion.
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Blue_Lux
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Freud lists all the different internal and external factors that can add content to a dream, and his whole theory works in spite of these things, which he himself wrote in his Interpretation of Dreams, such as your feet hanging off the bed and dreaming of being in the snow.
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redgreenvines
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good, to know he listed everything, he is good at lists.
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Blue_Lux
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His point is there remain unexplained aspects that cannot be written off... Hence his theory.
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Blue_Lux
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The dreams he mentions actually are some of the most insightful things I have ever read.
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“Among the dreams which have been communicated to me by others there is one which is at this point especially worthy of our attention. It was told me by a female patient who had heard it related in a lecture on dreams. Its original source is unknown to me. This dream evidently made a deep impression upon the lady, since she went so far as to imitate it, i.e. to repeat the elements of this dream in a dream of her own; in order, by this transference, to express her agreement with a certain point in the dream.
The preliminary conditions of this typical dream were as follows: A father had been watching day and night beside the sick-bed of his child. After the child died, he retired to rest in an adjoining room, but left the door ajar so that he could look from his room into the next, where the child's body lay surrounded by tall candles. An old man, who had been installed as a watcher, sat beside the body, murmuring prayers. After sleeping for a few hours the father dreamed that the child was standing by his bed, clasping his arm and crying reproachfully: 'Father, can't you see that I am burning?' The father woke up and noticed a bright light coming from the adjoining room. Rushing in, he found that the old man had fallen asleep, and the sheets and one arm of the beloved body were burnt by a fallen candle.”
The Interpretation of Dreams, Sigmund Freud
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the explanation of the burning child
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The dead child behaved in the dream like a living one: he himself warned his father, came to his bed, and caught him by the arm, just as he had probably done on the occasion from the memory (the child dying of a fever) of which the first part of the child’s words in the dream were derived. For the sake of the fulfilment of this wish the father prolonged his sleep by one moment. The dream was preferred to a waking reflection because it was able to show the child as once more alive. If the father had woken up first and then made the inference that led him to go into the next room, he would, as it were, have shortened his child’s life by that moment of time.
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Blue_Lux
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redgreenvines
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It is a poignant dream. it shows that the mind can compose a meaningful message from a few cues (smell of burning) and a few recent impressions before falling asleep i.e. the vigil since the procession of perceptions is at 6-10 per second in the dream and awake, it makes no sense to rest on just one interpretation of the sequence of mental contents in that dream, but to reflect upon the depth of feeling and circumstance makes us all better humans. and to reflect upon the choice of words used conveys something germane about the raconteur.
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Blue_Lux
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The excess resulting in the joke about gay people, often ridiculing, is what is left over regarding the perceived energy expenditure that would be required in order to actually understand why someone is gay. This left over has nowhere to go, and so it facilitates laughter, which is a reinforcing defense mechanism. This is why being laughed at is probably the commonest form of it, as Freud noticed as well. It is akin to schadenfreude. This phenomenon of excess is everywhere in the analyses of Freud. Slavoj Zizek speaks today about 'surplus pleasure,' for instance. The surplus of what a person hopes for a today, which is left over wishing that does not get fulfilled, comes out in dreams. It is a component of how the unconscious operates, and it is in jokes too. It always involves a comparison that cannot be immediately reconciled.
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Blue_Lux
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This is a good expression of Freud's surplus laughter in someone who then recognizes more about what they are laughing at. The laughter stops abruptly, and the face mimics the unconscious machinations.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmodius_and_Aristogeiton
There is a reason there are gay slurs in ancient Greece and Rome when it was still the case that if you were actually the lover of another of the same sex, they would have had no problems with you - but only on account of that fact. The slur 'cinaede' means the same thing as fa**ot in English. The Roman slur is for someone with those irritating qualities of some people who happen to be gay, but are loud, flagrant and obnoxious. The slur has nothing to do with homosexuality but obnoxiousness, lack of restraint, shamelessness and excessively wearing one's sexual desires on one's sleeve - literally in many cases. The Romans had a lot of class, and it is the offense of people who are dirty about it and who lack 'class' that is the foundation of such a slur. After the fall of Rome, the only thing left was a representation of gay people as ONLY that of having no class - not because it is some fundamental trait but because class altogether almost became extinct. Christianity, notice, reinforces 'class' probably more than anything else that it does.
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Blue_Lux
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I claim it is the fall of Eleusis that led to the fall of class, that is, being classy. There are writers from antiquity who said the end of the mysteries would be the end of the Greek way of life. Look at the last part of this about Eleusis from De Legibus
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But what displeases me in the nocturnal mysteries, is what the comic poets hold up to ridicule. If such licence was allowed at Rome, what abominations might be committed by the man who should carry premeditated debauchery into the mysteries, in which even a stolen glance was in ancient times a crime?
Comedy is perhaps largely responsible, and I think comedy can have an extremely nefarious influence if people control it, and in unforeseeable ways, because the unconscious can be exploited with comedy, as Freud's book on jokes explains.
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Blue_Lux
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What is reinforced in this society with profitable art, music, movies, and books (and it is indeed pushed) is literally that which led to the downfall of the Roman empire. It is probably going to be used, even recordings of it all, by a nefarious power in the future to actually brainwash and program people with curated images of the past about unbridled desire and perhaps "the freedom the old Americans had before it led to their end." I can see many possible outcomes of what is happening, and few are good.
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Freedom
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Blue_Lux said: Freud says childhood is unconscious because the actual things were once conscious but in such a way that, as the mind becomes larger with contents, and of more differentiated experiences, as in, a progressing knowledge of reality until adulthood.... Those early contents adhere to a looser, different actual structure of thought itself, so whatever exists there comes out only in ways that simply make no immediate, exact sense. These contents, think of them as broken down into smaller pieces, and the pieces of consciousness, ans the preconscious, are larger. So, those smaller pieces cannot be recognized explicitly with the pieces of what are conscious and preconscious - call them more complex thoughts in language as opposed to very quick, ambiguous, and often illogical.
that makes sense to me. I would classify it as subtle thoughts and impulses that can be hard to sense amongst the louder thoughts, feelings and sensations. I wouldn't limit the origin to childhood. I think we pick up subtle impressions and form subtle responses to things all the time
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Blue_Lux said: Repression occurs when the experience, take in the case of ptsd, you actually do not record the memory fully. Only bits remain, just like a dream. This would be the manifest content of the dream, or in this case the traumatic experience. This is how fundamental this repressive, protective force of the psyche is for Freud, and I think there is a lot of merit to the idea. But repression need not be a traumatic experience. It can be almost anything essentially forgotten, but what matters is the way in which what is forgotten is forgotten, because it can leave traces - which Freud said requires someone else's analysis.
The first 15 years of my life were very traumatic. I became strongly dissociated. later in life the trauma re-emerged suddenly and I had extremely severe PTSD. I think there were entire weeks I was stuck in a flash back. I learned to process each flashback and let it go, then the next one would come. There were dozens of different ones. Some were extremely fragmented, some appeared complete, it varies.
The thing thats amazing about them is how extremely detailed and realistic whatever memory is there. Its like a dream more than a memory, yet the dream is almost seamlessly overlaid on the here and now.
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redgreenvines said: Dreams are natural concertive contents of consciousness intermittently interrupting dreamless sleep. the cues to trigger the sequences of perception that unfold as dreams begin as sounds (internal or external), a flash of light, physical touch, or even intestinal gas being interpreted.
This reminds me of dreaming while hearing the sounds outside my apartment in chicago. the visual landscape was dark, and then synesthetic shapes and colors would change shape and color as the sounds changed
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Blue_Lux
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The disgusting thing is how people have been coerced into thinking it is their own internalized homophobia that makes them criticize anything about gay people. I am gay, and I can say for sure, there are tendencies (dubious as to how they have arisen) that irritate me, and I think give gay people a bad name. But I also don't think these things are naturally accompaniments, hence Harmodius and Aristogeiton.
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/09/23 05:40 PM)
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
Consider it it more in tempporal granularity of perceptions arising and passing in 3/10ths of a second unless they are recycled by indirect feedback.
how is that measured, reaction time?
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: The excess resulting in the joke about gay people, often ridiculing, is what is left over regarding the perceived energy expenditure that would be required in order to actually understand why someone is gay. This left over has nowhere to go, and so it facilitates laughter, which is a reinforcing defense mechanism. This is why being laughed at is probably the commonest form of it, as Freud noticed as well. It is akin to schadenfreude. This phenomenon of excess is everywhere in the analyses of Freud. Slavoj Zizek speaks today about 'surplus pleasure,' for instance. The surplus of what a person hopes for a today, which is left over wishing that does not get fulfilled, comes out in dreams. It is a component of how the unconscious operates, and it is in jokes too. It always involves a comparison that cannot be immediately reconciled.
this is interesting so i want to make sure I understand
your saying that when encountering a new phenomenah, such as gayness, theres a release of psychic energy to move the mind through the process of imagining the phenomena?
and then when that movement through imagining is repressed, there is still that packet of released psychic energy that needs to move, so its released through laughter, and thats the basis for jokes?
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redgreenvines
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: This is a good expression of Freud's surplus laughter in someone who then recognizes more about what they are laughing at. The laughter stops abruptly, and the face mimics the unconscious machinations.

what exactly is an unconscious machination? everything related to active mental contents is conscious. including shifts in facial expressions at less than 1/3 second (as depicted) which are conscious actions. The guy is not asleep. He may not be able to describe his facial gestures as fast as he can pull them, but they are associated with ideation he is experiencing.
I mean, do you say we drive our cars unconsciously?? really this whole Freudian split between unconscious, or subconscious, superconscious and conscious is bullshit.
we say it is subconscious or unconscious because Freud said so without actually ever explaining how or what the subconscious or unconscious mind is.
I say it is nothing, he is just lumping associative processes that occur faster than word speech into the category of subconscious or unconscious - which frankly is stupid. All associative processes engage within 2/10ths of a second, and they will ramify from that. All of them are equally conscious. Not all of them are relevant enough to blossom into speech or action, but consciousness is much faster than speech, or typing.
then why do people repeat the nonsense about subconscious? why is it so engrained in culture? why do psychologists stick with the nonsense of it.
probably for the same reason we say "god willing" or "god forbid" or any of those religious comments, even when we are atheist or agnostic. It's habitual - and therein lies the truth, associative behavior has the nature of habituation, or reflex. Now this does not mean it is subconscious, but it does reveal that conscious action is not willed, it is reflexive.
and that is the naked truth.
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Pinkerton
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Quote:
Pinkerton said:
Quote:
Pinkerton said: yo
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Blue_Lux
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Partially yes, you put it correctly, even though that is not the full picture, only part of it. This is what Freud calls the Janus-like feature of the joke-work. It plays two parts simultaneously
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Blue_Lux
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He says exactly "The thing about the unconscious is we really do not know what it is." He says this numerous times in his books. His theory is dense, this is why it cannot be compacted into a small easy theory. I would say, philosophically, this is the fault of Plato and his influence on collective thought patterns. I have answers to your response, but it is mostly what Freud has actually addressed in his books already. I just find it frustratingly consistent that the people who have so much of an issue with Freud's theories consult other people instead of actually reading Freud. It is almost if they have trepidation about what they will find... And I daresay Freud provides answers to that as well in his books!
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Blue_Lux
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You really haven't provided any concrete reasons in refutation of anything Freud has written. Freud amended his overall theory over the course of his life and took many many criticisms and states explicitly when he is unsure, and about 20 other criticisms you would have never thought about, in literally every one of his books.
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Blue_Lux
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This petty assertion of dogmatism in Freud is often just a pathetic ad hominem. I have heard it many times. It is an abominable lie really but effectively convenient to dissuade people from actually reading him, because he will change your life completely.
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Blue_Lux
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The question of how for instance the stimulus "chair," in a certain mental state of affairs similar to hypnosis, makes "rocking chair in childhood home that I haven't seen in decades" regards something unconscious, exactly what modern neuroscience would hope to find, but is not conscious. The words about the unconscious or the models of neurons firing do not give any experience of anything. The unconscious is unexperienceable and gains contents over the course of life.
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redgreenvines
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Look I like Freud and especially think his use of association in talking through issues is right on the money, but I do not think the rest of the theory - dense or whatever - is worth spending more than 3 months intensive and then move on.
My area of interest in case that has slipped you by is memory formation and recall (or reflexive perception).
Inadvertently I think it explains more than Freud has explained about the mechanics of the psyche, and it refutes the concept of subconscious other than to say those parts of thought that are short (fast) are all clearly associative memory activations, so we do not need to package all that activity into the confusing construct of subconscious which Freud himself actually did not understand.
He used association but did not put it together as the core aspect of memory formation and recall. Even the Gestalt school lacked the certainty to map gestalt association down to the alpha wave moment (i.e. between 1/6 to 1/12 second - I usually just say 1/10th of a second).
I am taking the best of those inspirations and the clear Donald Hebb revelation that "what fires together wires together", and mapping it to neural correlates where it fits as a synchronous wiring event.
I am not finished with that work, but I have described enough of it to provide a working framework that even Freud would understand and respect.
please do not lump me with the critics who have nothing better to offer.
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Blue_Lux
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"He used association but did not put it together as the core aspect of memory formation and recall."
I knew this myself at 16 by taking psychedelics, and Freud literally says the fundamental operation of the psyche is association and contiguity. He absolutely put that together. I can find the actual quote for you. Well... I looked through many pages only to not find the exact quote, but I found something similar. I will eventually remember exactly where he wrote it. I am pretty sure it is somewhere in the Ego and the Id, but I can't be bothered at this moment to look and further.
Quote:
In the aforementioned essay I only touched upon, but in no way exhausted, the varieties in the relations and meanings of concealed memories. In the given example fully analysed I particularly emphasized a peculiarity in temporal relation between the concealing and the contents of the memory concealed by it. The content of the concealing memory in that example belonged to one of the first of childhood, while the thoughts represents it which remained practically unconscious, belonged to a later period of the individual question. I called this form of displacement a retroactive or regressive one. Perhaps more often one finds the reversed relation -- that is, an indifferent impression of the most remote period becomes a concealing memory in consciousness, which simply owes its existence to an association with an earlier experience, against whose direct reproduction there are resistances. We would call these encroaching or interposing concealing memories. What most concerns memory lies here chronologically beyond [p. 59] concealing memory. Finally, there may be a third possible case, namely, the concealing memory may be connected with the impression it conceals, not only through its contents, just through contiguity of time; this is the contemporaneous, or contiguous concealing memory.
The Psychopathology of Everyday Life, Freud
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Blue_Lux
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redgreenvines
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awful news why is that part of this discussion?
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Blue_Lux
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Office of the night Jk But then again...
But really it is really terrible. It still exists. Without gay people this world would be much worse. I rally for my gays. I'll be fighting for them as long as I live.
It bothers me to see this, but I see a new wave of homophobia coming. Forces are trying to destroy us on multiple fronts. I've seen twitter lately and it seems the hatred for gay people is intensifying.
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Blue_Lux
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Why? I've seen too much lately. I feel like I am going insane, but I know I am not insane.
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Blue_Lux
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I truly think there is a high chance of another wave of criminalizing homosexuality in the future. May not be that far away. Matt Walsh, propagandist, is spreading lies every single day with hundreds of thousands if not millions of followers. His newest one is that gay couples are potential sex traffickers. Everything he says is debunked, yet he speaks with impunity. The arguments are not even intelligent. They are aimed at making homosexuality look as bad as possible. Mostly by making us seem stupid and sadist. I hate that man.
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Blue_Lux
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I would thrash Matt Walsh in a debate. I would make him seem like a child. It is all however scripted, most likely. But thoughts of people who actually give a damn don't seem to really get out much, no? The glory of that moment will never happen. Oh how much I'd love to destroy every sentence he utters, because it is all so wrong. I'd be doing a service. Sad it won't ever happen. The editing now, the AI, the fabrication of strawman viewpoints which then replace what actually exists... It goes on and on. Suicide has seemed nice a lot lately. Only thing that is keeping me together is my husband and a dream that maybe things can change. I see so much terrible shit all the time. Is it really worth going on in this world? It doesn't have to be, and there are solutions, but to whom does that matter? At this point I'm thinking of taking a break from speaking to everyone, except whom I must, besides my lovely friend and lover. Goodbye until then.
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redgreenvines
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breathe do not react let the foam of time swallow the nonsense
jews everywhere are relearning how to just blend in.
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Bardy


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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: Office of the night Jk But then again...
But really it is really terrible. It still exists. Without gay people this world would be much worse. I rally for my gays. I'll be fighting for them as long as I live.
It bothers me to see this, but I see a new wave of homophobia coming. Forces are trying to destroy us on multiple fronts. I've seen twitter lately and it seems the hatred for gay people is intensifying.
Where do you see this new wave of homophobia? Personally I don’t see it where I live, it seems to be steadily getting better I think… but then again I don’t really know any gay people so I probably can’t talk…
Just wanted to chime in and say that Twitter is not a good example of the real world. It’s a place where extremes are amplified on all sides. Even makes decent people act like complete maniacs from time to time.
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Bardy


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Quote:
redgreenvines said: breathe do not react let the foam of time swallow the nonsense
Good advice
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,797
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28576637 - 12/10/23 06:03 AM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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I think he might be reacting to the new house speaker, such views are loud but coming from what I think is a shrinking minority.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Quote:
Blue_Lux said:
Oh how much I'd love to destroy every sentence he utters, because it is all so wrong.
We must be vigilant in our determination to not allow other brains to trigger our brain, and cause emotional turmoil. Learn to accept the products of the diverse range of brains on the planet, and live in peace with Matt Walsh, Oprah Winfrey, Elon Musk, Steve Bannon, Tom Cruise, Kanye West, Alex Jones, Andrew Tate, Beyoncé, Donald Trump, and Amber Heard.
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Blue_Lux
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Re: nudity [Re: Bardy]
#28577040 - 12/10/23 01:08 PM (1 month, 18 days ago) |
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about chimes and tweets...
Is it not curious that dog training began around the same time languages, especially written languages, are developing? I think there is a chance dog training has had some impact on our human understanding of language, facilitating more of an understanding. People can train a dog without knowing how to speak very well. The natives of the amazon and africa and all over mimic the sounds of birds to talk to each other. I think language is in touch with animals very importantly. Observing the behavior of a dog can teach many things, especially to a prehistorical tribe. What could teach you a systematic form of reasoning but training animals? Would this not be then compared almost immediately to oneself as a psychology? But notice this and think of Egyptian worship of cats, and of the Wolf in Roman myths. And all the animals they worshipped. And notice if someone is called a scoundrel what the behavior represents. Or a dog.
I'm going to take a break from the internet. Just thought that was interesting.
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/10/23 01:14 PM)
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Blue_Lux
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but lastly, regarding above.. Nero would dress up like a wolf and devour his enemies in a sadistic manner while they were bound to a pole naked. Shamans become different animals and mimic them. Tribes have had animal totems for thousands of years, and this is because ancient people learned from animals.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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Now we're getting back into nudity 
The ancients were probably naked so much more than we generally are nowadays, am curious what kind of historic rituals or traditions were done by or to people in the nude.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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redgreenvines
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: but lastly, regarding above.. Nero would dress up like a wolf and devour his enemies in a sadistic manner while they were bound to a pole naked. Shamans become different animals and mimic them. Tribes have had animal totems for thousands of years, and this is because ancient people learned from animals.
sounds like an "infantile fantasy" resurrected and expressed after much additional associations
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Blue_Lux
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non sequitur
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
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If I were a roman emperor with the power and ethics guidelines of those times.. whoo boy..
But saying if 'I' doesn't indicate anything because if I was born then I'd only know what we knew then, if I happened to be of a royal bloodline and never had no as an answer to my whims or desires, eating tits or poking captured enemies could appear like a pastime activity.
If Nero took the BDSM test ey!
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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lostintimenspc
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Re: nudity [Re: sudly]
#28577549 - 12/10/23 06:17 PM (1 month, 17 days ago) |
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feels good man
where da white women at
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
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Back to nudity When you're with someone for a long period does the appeal of their nude body go away?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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RJ Tubs 202



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Jay-Z cheated on Beyoncé, so maybe boredom is a common phenomenon. (BTW, notice how many people claim you need to be creative in the bedroom and keep sex "fresh" and try new things) All men know how girly magazines only last for a little while - then you have to buy a new magazine, as boredom sets in.
haha - I'm showin' my age . . .
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
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Right I remember the worn out playboys, hustlers, jugs magazines Probably not as many now
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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RJ Tubs 202



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Recently I ran across a genera of entertainment I haven't heard of. There seems to be a lot of this on YouTube. I kind of like it! Making Pasta Alla Calabrese | Cooking with Stella Cardo 5.3M views 3 months ago
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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depends on how long you are with them
they may not age well, and they likely lose their motivation for sex hormonally when they do age, even if they remain very cute to look at.
nothing lasts forever.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
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I recently experienced some traumatic events and my friend sent me a video watching someone garden. I watched the entire video lol
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
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We have known each other 20+ years
Interesting of course I have changed but I am more confident about my body now than when I was younger. I wish I would of been more confident. I think religion inhibited me from even thinking in that direction. I spent all my energy protecting my body and covering it. Ridiculous but it's what happened
Can some men not be as visual or maybe they just don't express it?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Kickle
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Sit long enough and you'll want to stand. Stand long enough and you'll want to sit.
I don't think such arising has anything to do with the appearance of a body specifically. But may be compounded when considering that for reproduction, youthful bodies make a lot more sense.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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loladoreen


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Right I think different people express differently also. And have different levels of comfort. I did a boudoir shoot, made a book and gave it as a gift. No response at all. Except thank you. Yet when we divorced he had all my pictures out and was always looking at them. I remember one time I went over to see him and he showed me the porn he was watching and said it was because physically she reminded him of me. I think everyone expresses different and has different comfort levels. In an attempt to ignite some spark id send explicit texts, pictures and he would be angry because he was at work Hurt me I see he just didn't know how to respond Life is a learning process I've seen men who ask for stuff like that and I didn't trust them or had that level of intimacy with them. And they constantly expressed to me It's interesting
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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RJ Tubs 202



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My increase in confidence about my body, as I age, seems to be a result of diminishing hatred of my body. Like so many people, I've hated my body. I once worked for a guy who would often talk to a female coworker about how much he hated his body. He was a slim and quite ordinary looking man.
I wonder if some self body hatred is different when we have sex with the same gender versus the opposite gender. Do we feel a different level of need to be attractive to the opposite gender and pressure to "turn them on"? For some people, maybe that hang-up diminishes or goes away when having homosexual sex. I'm not purely speculating.
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loladoreen


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I think you're onto something My second to last trip had a focus on my body. Wasn't maternal or sensual. It was I needed to appreciate it and if I don't allow myself to find it sexy I am inhibiting myself. It was like seeing it through different eyes and perspective. Interesting I have a friend who's bi and partner is a man. He always would tell me to stop being so harsh on myself. He made me feel beautiful. I felt beautiful to him. The men he finds attractive I don't. His perspective was always one I appreciated. He had a different view on bodies. Incredible person who I respect immensely. He also found something attractive in every person. I dated a total man slut and he also found something attractive in all women. We have been friends for 38 years and talked often. He would tell me someone he was sleeping with and I was often surprised and I remember once he said but look at her smile.. Then I also saw it I always deterred from man whores But Man he was the best thing that happened to me for my own confidence and sexuality.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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loladoreen


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I don't consider myself bi but I can appreciate female bodies and have preferences. But I don't want to be sexual with them. Same sex could be different
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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redgreenvines
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loladoreen


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Cool pictures Liberating I feel like nudity is liberating And a form of self acceptance Does anyone take their clothes off when tripping?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

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Nudist beaches has a special aura. I love it.
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redgreenvines
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usually
tripping is like bathing
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Pinkerton
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Tripping is insane.
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loladoreen


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I'm doing a lot of driving and in my thoughts. If we expressed to others our appreciation Im talking sexual partners Of their nudity and bodies I think it would greatly and positively affect them. I can remember every compliment I have received The man that boosted my confidence so much He told me all the time I literally remember the first time he saw me naked like a core memory After being with someone for 20 years who never said anything It was such an amazing experience And fun I had sooooooomuch fun I got to do things sexually i wanted And explored The comfort level was the best I ever had Why don't we do that more?
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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redgreenvines
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you have to make your peace with these memories, and continue with what works in the moment, it is never going to be 10 or 20 years ago again.
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Blue_Lux
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Homo sum; humani nil a me alienum puto. I am human, nothing human is alien to me. Terence
I think nudity means nothing to someone who really understands. "Tout comprendre c'est tout pardonner. To comprehend all is to forgive all, as in, any potential lust, and to see far beyond that. That is one image in the midst of millions concerning whatever could be seen about someone if they are naked. Then again the clear lead-up that clothing provides... The anticipation I mean which is created from the way nudity is depicted does in fact contribute to whatever pleasure one may indulge in it lol. This must be reckoned with, however, certain mind altering brain chemicals are released during emotional encounters, and seeing as sex is feelings including sexual emotions (which exist), this is not turned on so to speak all the time, and so nudity need not be charged with that - especially if that experience must require certain actual neuropsychological factors in play first, only upon which can be premised that actual experience of nudity in that way.
Edited by Blue_Lux (12/22/23 05:05 PM)
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Blue_Lux
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To answer your question, I don't know if there is a black and white statement to be made concerning whether someone's nakedness may become less attractive. The thing itself that is attractive is not in itself attractive. YOU have a charge of beauty within you which is required for something to be attractive or beautiful. This is the goddess of love or something. It is Eros, the child of Aphrodite. It is something that may go up and down, depending on the contents of one's own experience atop their own conditions. Something may affect your condition but can only do so with regard to the condition that may actually be affected. I have only become more attracted to my husband after what feels like forever already, which is 6 and a half years. I think it will somehow become even greater, which is potentially problematic, but I digress. How much can you REALLY love someone? Is there a point where it plateaus? I don't think it is so much like that than a real, shared experience of joy, and this grows as you also grow. Your body may slow down and get problems, but the brain holds on until the last moment. Yanni has a great piece called "Until the last moment." We are meant to experience that joy with another person. There is no limit and there is only an expansion, not a climbing continuation.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: "Until the last moment." We are meant to experience that joy with another person.
you think there is a set of tablets upon which what we are meant to do, feel, or be is decreed?
does this tie back to predetermination? is this propaganda?
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,151
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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I mean our physiology has that literally encoded into it. That is what I meant by "meant." It was a metaphor. The potentiality for something does not mean necessarily it must be fulfilled, as for instance Lady Gaga said once "I don't have sex often because I don't want a man to steal the creativity from my vagina." Lol. This is really a deep statement, and it says a number of things really. It just so happens oxytocin, serotonin and neural nets exist in tandem with endogenous phenethylamine...
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: you have to make your peace with these memories, and continue with what works in the moment, it is never going to be 10 or 20 years ago again.
It was 4 years ago
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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yes, it wont be 3 years ago either. everything has been rearranged.
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Quote:
Blue_Lux said: To answer your question, I don't know if there is a black and white statement to be made concerning whether someone's nakedness may become less attractive. The thing itself that is attractive is not in itself attractive. YOU have a charge of beauty within you which is required for something to be attractive or beautiful. This is the goddess of love or something. It is Eros, the child of Aphrodite. It is something that may go up and down, depending on the contents of one's own experience atop their own conditions. Something may affect your condition but can only do so with regard to the condition that may actually be affected. I have only become more attracted to my husband after what feels like forever already, which is 6 and a half years. I think it will somehow become even greater, which is potentially problematic, but I digress. How much can you REALLY love someone? Is there a point where it plateaus? I don't think it is so much like that than a real, shared experience of joy, and this grows as you also grow. Your body may slow down and get problems, but the brain holds on until the last moment. Yanni has a great piece called "Until the last moment." We are meant to experience that joy with another person. There is no limit and there is only an expansion, not a climbing continuation.
Beautiful Im far from there It's definitely an aspiration.
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 5,850
Last seen: 32 minutes, 40 seconds
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a recent poll found people report having the best sex in their 60s
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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I'm not 60 But it's something to look forward to!!!
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,010
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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It's interesting some men are comfortable getting naked and allowing a stranger to give them an orgasm - for money. For me, it's been a great grounding experience. And has honestly enriched my life. I wonder how many women would feel comfortable getting naked and being calm enough to have an orgasm with a stranger.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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it's private IMO
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,328
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: It's interesting some men are comfortable getting naked and allowing a stranger to give them an orgasm - for money. For me, it's been a great grounding experience. And has honestly enriched my life. I wonder how many women would feel comfortable getting naked and being calm enough to have an orgasm with a stranger.
I would not be able to
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“One doesn’t have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.”
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,151
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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For money? No way.
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Blue_Lux
τό κᾰτᾰπεπτωκός φροντιστής


Registered: 12/07/19
Posts: 2,151
Loc: chillin' on Charon's skiff
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The way things really are is speechless. Only when the best words are uttered about anything is anything remembered.
-------------------- ☆✮★⋆I ♡ the music, not the bling⋆★✮☆ https://rictornorton.co.uk/eighteen/1730news.htm 𝔦𝔫 𝔫𝔬𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢 𝔟𝔬𝔫𝔦 𝔭𝔢𝔰𝔰𝔦𝔪𝔦 𝔪𝔞𝔩𝔬𝔯𝔲𝔪 𝔣𝔦𝔲𝔫𝔱 May I ask what your bud type is? ❂ LXIV⁶⁴AMOR ❂Profundæ lātissimæque vēritātēs amandæ sunt, sīc ideo necesse est: rēs maxima amanda est; pōtus sit is bene scīmus cum nōs id adeō explet, cum altō hīc movet īmus: rēs maxima omnis amor.
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