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Offlinespasm666
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acute weird fogger issue
    #28562106 - 11/30/23 12:39 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

Here's the story. I run two FC's with their own separate ultrasonic disc fogger systems. I cleaned them both today as I always do on Thursdays. Put it all back and bang - I got reduced output from both foggers.

Ok, I fucked something up during cleaning I thought. Checked and doublechecked everything and all seemed to be as they always are. Water levels, fogger positions, fogger cord positions, discs, reservoirs and lids, ducts, timers, electricity outlets, ambient RH%, temperature, amount of substrate in FC's, exhausts, circulation fans, etc. I could not find anything even slightly off from normal.

Ok, then I must have broken the foggers while cleaning. So I unboxed a brand new one and tried that in one FC. Nope, still the reduced output. Tried different electricity outlet which is behind different fuse. Checked all the fuses too. Nothing.

Ok, then I don't have any more ideas what the hell is going on. I had to leave for home and I know that when I get back in the morning, I'll have RH% around 30% in the FC's and dried up mushrooms. I might be able to save some if I figure out something soon, but seriously, what the fuck is this shit. Can't afford to lose two weeks crop for this.

I did crank up the cycle timers to get the mist more often, but it's not going to work out like that since they were already very close to the maximum they can take without heating the water, and still it is not enough. Can't cut FAE either except for short time emergency.

I just don't get it. I don't find any logic to this. Unless I simultaneously broke two foggers and the brand new one was already broken, all causing to give the same reduced output. Come on.

Any help is appreciated as I'm out of ideas and each hour I'm losing more crop. What a nightmare.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28562347 - 11/30/23 03:51 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

I have no idea but I'll spitball with you

I know those disc don't work well if you get anything slick on them. Like if you wash them with soap they have reduced output for a while. You wash them with something different? You add anything to the water?

How about your transformer? You got a back up. I doubt both would have failed tho. That makes no sense.

Mushroom farmers have a lot of weird issues :goodluck:


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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: Stromrider]
    #28562368 - 11/30/23 04:11 PM (1 month, 28 days ago)

That don't make sense.. what kinda of foggers you got? Did you pull the discs off and redry them? sometimes water in the spring part can cause decreased output.. And putting a bunch on at a time its not hard to imagine making at least one on each fogger too loose..... Also warmer weather can make the output decrease significantly too


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: seagu]
    #28563112 - 11/30/23 11:38 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Thanks :grin: I agree it does not make sense at all!

I cleaned them with bleach solution (same strengh as always), I know some don't recommend this but I've used it for over two years every week and never had any problems. I rinse very thoroughly.

I first tried with brand new transformer (before trying brand new fogger unit) but didn't help.

I got the 12-head mxmoonant fogger from Amazon. One has been running for 2 years and the other for 8 months or so, no problems (execpt one failed and replaced transformer) in the past. Didn't remove the discs as I checked and they were all firmly closed tight. And no change in the the weather (not during cleaning the foggers lol).


Just got back to the farm and to my surprise I didn't have dry mushrooms. One FC has a perfect RH% but it's because I set the cycle timer to go on very often - too often as it will heat the water and eventually damage the fogger unit, but it seemed to work as emergency solution.
The other FC had RH 100% and A LOT of water on the floor. This is because when I left I forgot to plug the unit back into the cycle timer, and instead left it plugged into another electricity outlet I tested without the timer. It has been running all night without pauses :rofl::rofl::rofl: Yea I'll start mopping (vacuuming in fact). We'll see what the output is after an all-nighter. Fuck me.


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28563168 - 12/01/23 01:09 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Use a diluted vinegar spray rather than bleach. These things are expensive and bleach is caustic.

Sometimes after I clean the heads they have reduced output, maybe little particles got jammed into the disc area. I just blast them with more vinegar solution to flush out the heads and the output usually goes back to normal.

I don't change discs ever. Been running the same discs for as long as the humidifier lasts.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: deadmandave]
    #28563582 - 12/01/23 10:30 AM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Yea I got the 12 head mxmoonant too.. works awesome. Yea try checking under the discs.. they may seem tight but that doesn't mean water didn't get under them in the process if you didn't check. I've looked at discs that looked tight but pulled apart and droplets under the discs. Dry all of it with a hair dryer. Then put back together.

Yea i agree too with deadmandave about bleach and this stuff.. no way. If not cleaning strength vinegar then CLR works. Calcium Lime and Rust remover - CLR. Must be pure CLR, no additives. A few drops will clean those discs really well let sit for some minutes add some water after a bit to further clean, wipe and use and it is food safe and even recommended for cleaning humidifiers..


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Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: seagu]
    #28563699 - 12/01/23 12:08 PM (1 month, 27 days ago)

Ok this issue worked out itself after all. After drying the floor I set up everything as they usually are and bang - normal output from both foggers :eek: I really don't know what the hell was going on and I'm not sure if I'll blame the bleach / jammed particles since the brand new unit didn't give me the good output either. Weird stuff but luckily gone. Left me a bit anxious though, as I just couldn't grasp what was this all about.

I have always used bleach to clean my foggers. I've run one fogger over two years and cleaned it with bleach about every week. Haven't either changed any disks, ever. Never had reduced output (except this mystery thing now and once when I had a failing transformer). Zero problems. So I trust this is quite allright.

But maybe I'll switch to vinegar for some time, and see which I like more, I have a big jug of it without any use. And I'll check under the discs if I get any problems, thanks for the tip. Now it all seems good again, weirdly. Yeah the mxmoonant 12-head is really awesome, they seem to last long and no problems and not too expensive either.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28564138 - 12/01/23 05:59 PM (1 month, 26 days ago)

I both love and hate when a problem solves itself. I love that it's solved but it kills me not knowing what the problem was so I can prevent it


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Offlineohkw
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: Stromrider]
    #28564730 - 12/02/23 04:27 AM (1 month, 26 days ago)

That's really a weird phenomenon, especially since aa ultrasonic fogger is a simple device. It can be either broken, due to an defective piezo, or a blocked transition of the sonic to the water, which is both more or less irreparable.
Also, since both new and old foggers were affected, the cause must lie in the environment. I can only imagine of two things, which I both would not consider to be very likely though...

First would be, that the air was already very dry (and warm). So the fogger output would be much less visible (less fog), although the output was actually ok.
Second would be an interference by vibrations, overlaying the oscillation of the piezo crystals in the foggers and making them ineffective.

I don't know if anything of this is a thinkable in your szenario... but currently the only things I can at least remotely imagine.


Edited by ohkw (12/02/23 04:29 AM)


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: ohkw]
    #28565802 - 12/02/23 07:32 PM (1 month, 25 days ago)

Yeah weird indeed. I defies logic or there's something that I'm totally missing here.

Output was not good, I had low humidity alarms ringing all day :grin: Have three different hygrostats so it was real for sure. So I guess the second guess would be more probable, eventhough it doesn't sound very probable either and there are no any new vibrations I can think of. Don't have a better explanation though.

Aaaand a new twist in the drama: Today the other fogger switched to the reduced output again! Didn't do anything, it seems it has a life of its own or I'm starting to lose my mind lol. Couldn't get RH above 65, had to leave, getting stressed out. Other fogger stayed normal all day. Geez


Quote:

Stromrider said:
I both love and hate when a problem solves itself. I love that it's solved but it kills me not knowing what the problem was so I can prevent it




Yeah exactly!


Edited by spasm666 (12/02/23 07:32 PM)


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28576124 - 12/09/23 04:58 PM (1 month, 19 days ago)

I had the same problem with the ultrasonics so I built a High pressure mist from a pressure washer and I haven't had a problem since I installed it and I leave my exhaust on full blast 24/7.


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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #28576173 - 12/09/23 05:36 PM (1 month, 18 days ago)

Hey where the heck you been


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: Stromrider]
    #28618600 - 01/12/24 11:19 AM (16 days, 5 hours ago)

A little update..

It seems that the issue is here to stay and it goes like this:

I clean the fogger and set it up again. The output is very poor for 2-3 whole days. Then it magically gets fixed by itself.

I wouldn't mind it if it was a a few hours or a day. But it gets way too dry in the FC in the 2-3 days, it actually dries the mushrooms and pins up. I don't know why it's like this, I don't recall it being this bad earlier. Though it might be because now it's been super cold (-16F) outside so humidity in the building is around 10%. But anyway this is not good and I can't figure out a solution since new units won't help. I also started using vinegar for cleaning the fogger, didn't affect this. Frustrating.


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28618934 - 01/12/24 04:54 PM (16 days, 3 minutes ago)

What kind of water are you using? Make sure it's not too pure. There needs to be a little grit for the units to work properly. In fact distilled water will destroy these foggers.


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: deadmandave]
    #28619276 - 01/12/24 11:32 PM (15 days, 17 hours ago)

Just straight tap water


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Offlinetaku
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28619688 - 01/13/24 11:53 AM (15 days, 5 hours ago)

i dont really understand why a brand new one unwrapped would also have limited output. 

one idea for the meantime would be to alternate your cleaning schedule to allow one to have lower output while others carry the load. then rotate.  perhaps just while weather is -16 or lower - or until the issue is solved.


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: taku]
    #28619702 - 01/13/24 12:04 PM (15 days, 4 hours ago)

Me neither. It has to do with the cleaning since the poor output starts always from the cleaning, and then after about 3 days it gets back to normal.

Yeah I guess I could run two units and alternate the cleaning cycle between them. Don't have much space for another reservoir though, dunno if the issue resolves if using the same reservoir (which I'll be cleaning weekly anyway).


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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28620145 - 01/13/24 07:24 PM (14 days, 21 hours ago)

What're you cleaning the tub with?


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: deadmandave]
    #28620417 - 01/13/24 11:06 PM (14 days, 17 hours ago)

Used to use bleach solution, then tried bleach + vinegar (good rinse in between) for a couple of weeks, now just vinegar. No difference.


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OfflineFungus Gnat
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28620693 - 01/14/24 08:59 AM (14 days, 7 hours ago)

Quote:

spasm666 said:
Used to use bleach solution, then tried bleach + vinegar (good rinse in between) for a couple of weeks, now just vinegar. No difference.



I was under the impression that bleach+vinegar creates chlorine gas, you might want to double check that. Stay safe out there.


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Offlinespasm666
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: Fungus Gnat]
    #28620781 - 01/14/24 10:21 AM (14 days, 6 hours ago)

Yeah I've read too that you shouldn't mix them. Which I didn't. I rinsed everything very well in between.


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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28620790 - 01/14/24 10:25 AM (14 days, 6 hours ago)

I’ve been dealing with nearly the same issue as you for a while and still haven’t solved it. One thing I’d like to add is that when the heater is on in my fruiting room it drastically reduces the mist output. The ambient humidity in the room (not tent) drops way down as well. I’m not sure the exact process of what’s happening but it seems dry air will cause a low output. At least for me.


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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: Southerner]
    #28620971 - 01/14/24 12:37 PM (14 days, 4 hours ago)

Allright at least I'm not the only one then.

Your experience correlates with mine as this issue has appeared (or gotten worse) in the winter time when the ambient RH is the lowest (it's been down to 10%).

Still doesn't make much sense to me why it happens for 3 days after cleaning and then back to normal until the next cleaning. Also it doesn't help if I pause the exhaust and blast the FC full of fog and then plug everything as they were. Maybe we should put another fogger to mist the actual fogger lol


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: spasm666]
    #28621033 - 01/14/24 01:20 PM (14 days, 3 hours ago)

are you both using mxmoonant foggers? got a HOH you could test?

are you diluting bleach before use? could be the water is too slippery to function after cleaning.

would seem that something is happening while you're cleaning, either the water, the cleaning agent, the technique, the ambient humidity or some other unknown is affecting the fogger output.


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InvisibleSoutherner
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Re: acute weird fogger issue [Re: deadmandave]
    #28621263 - 01/14/24 04:43 PM (14 days, 15 minutes ago)

I’m using HOH and been working with John to figure out what’s happening. Really friendly and helpful over there. Tried different disc batches and same issue.

I’m thinking it’s the antibacterial soap I was using. Possibly leaving small amount of residue/film and was taking the mister a couple days to “blast” it out of there or something. Currently shut down for remodeling and I’m going to make another mist reservoir and see if that helps with not having ever used that soap in it. Long shot but it’s something. Also going to not have a 6’ fuckin tube the mist has to travel up before getting into the tent :lol:

Any idea how the ambient humidity affects the fogger? Both the AC and heat drop it quite a bit. Need to get a setup that’s more controlled as opposed to always on when I need them. That’s the next change after redoing the tent.


Edited by Southerner (01/14/24 05:51 PM)


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